Another Mis-informed Police Officer or Corruption?

LMTD said:

I have no idea of the laws of Hawaii .

Click to expand...

Lol I was born and raised there. Don't even THINK about carrying a gun unless it has got a welded barrel, is broken into six pieces, Carried in the non passenger compartments of five different cars and is guarded by a leprechaun named Toshiro Mifune.... :lol:

Yeah I feel better about the whole bad deal now, if I see this woman again at the bullet hole I am going to apologize to her on the information that I gave her. Yeah I will admit I know Kansas better even if we have more restrictions than we originally looked upon. I thank you all for being very patient with me as obviously we can call this a oops or a minor miss understanding, I am actually surprised that I got these type of responses from everyone here that was intended as a positive correction and not just a slam my face into the ground and be turned into ground beef.

DWCook said:

I am actually surprised that I got these type of responses from everyone here that was intended as a positive correction and not just a slam my face into the ground and be turned into ground beef.

Click to expand...

What can I say, I was having an off day.

DWCook said:

Yeah I feel better about the whole bad deal now, if I see this woman again at the bullet hole I am going to apologize to her on the information that I gave her. Yeah I will admit I know Kansas better even if we have more restrictions than we originally looked upon. I thank you all for being very patient with me as obviously we can call this a oops or a minor miss understanding, I am actually surprised that I got these type of responses from everyone here that was intended as a positive correction and not just a slam my face into the ground and be turned into ground beef.

Click to expand...

Naw dude, not from me. I was as ignorant as the next guy about our gun laws before I actually found some things out. Ya gotta learn somewhere.

You're not the only one DW. I've butted heads with an official in my State a time or two about several things like CCW law, Castle Doctrine updates, and the usage of one particular word in a statute that they're stretching into something it's not supposed to be.

My question is always: Why are you allowing those folks who have absolutely nothing to do with CCW actually teach those statutes?

That said, we don't self-educate without running into such things. If/when our LEOs are being taught the wrong things it's perfectly acceptable to ask the questions, but be prepared to show the statutes. Trust me, there are many in the LE community that will give you this: I'm a cop, I know the law. It's something that's often offset by actually showing them the law or showing it to their supervisor when they won't listen.

It's important that we remember that LEO's are not always given proper law updates and training to cover those changes. Example: As of 3 weeks ago, a police academy in Missouri has been identified as teaching out of the 2009 Missouri Blue Book, which does not cover changes to the Castle Doctrine from 2010 as well as other law updates. Being behind the times is one thing, but being behind and actually teaching what you know to be behind gives the LEO the "I know the law" mentality. Sadly many rely on that Blue Book and it's actually known to differ from the actual State statutes...certain things are intentionally left out as erroneous when they actually aren't.

Well actually the problem is ....

You are held to the standard of "knowing the law" aka ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse for violating it.

That would be all fine and dandy if it was easily accessible, but it is not really at all. Now the CCW laws in MO are fairly easy to find if you have the internet and can use google and since REASONABLE people wrote them and then submitted them to the legislators, a person of decent intelligence can read them and understand them. That is not always the case.

That leaves one some what in a bad situation. I will take a trip to Idaho, so I NEED to know the gun laws. Well guess what, I have no clue what they are called. In MO they are RSMO which is Revised Statute Missouri and then xxx.xxx.x numbering system, how does ID do it? Where do I find the ID regs for carry/concealed carry/car carry/hunting/firearms storage/mag capacity limits/lock requirements/or whatever other law might exist. Please do not point out the ID laws, I am not really going there, simply using it as an example.

Now I can still get into trouble with my friend google if I get an old version that has changed, if a revision has happened but has not gone into law yet but will before I arrive etc.

One would think the next logical step would be to contact an authority, but there is no such person without charges as all groups seem to have personell who fail the accuracy test and since I am fooling with my freedom it is not a 99% scored test is ok, not by any stretch.

I SHOULD be able to contact someone besides a lawyer in ID to obtain sound advice and most would think the police would be a good source but time and time again it winds up being opinions inserted where legalities should exist.

I have heard more than one CCW instructor give advice that fails as well, though it is MUCH MUCH more rare.

Expecting a citizen to know laws that even judges do not know, hence the court of appeals is just a lot of horse crap to exersize control which is why we have so many laws, to prevent anyone from knowing it all so to speak.

Couple that with the ability to "apply reasonable interpretations" to the law and all is completely lost because "reasonable" does not exist and it could well be argued that something is reasonable when it is not even close in most folks minds.

That leaves you with little option beyond taking any information you get with a huge grain of salt until research on your own proves otherwise.

Mo Concealed Weapons Law Publication Link

http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSHPWeb/Publications/Brochures/documents/SHP-863.pdf


Missouri Highway Patrol Publication "Missouri Concealed Weapons Law"

I carry a copy of this in my vehicle. Makes it hard for LEO's to argue with one of their own publications.

DWCook said:

going to try and stay off this forum for a while now since i made a complete ass of myself on this thread with thinking on Missouri laws. Hate embarrassing myself on a internet site as information travels around so I am going to stay off, considering probably got a lot of members here thinking against me. Later all!

She is a Kansas resident working in Missouri.

But knowing some members here on this forum will still think negative on this post I am staying off for a while.

Click to expand...

I know you can't see it but I'm holding my hands over my head with my index fingers and thumbs touching, thus making the shape of a woman's reproductive organs.


Don't worry about it. You said something dumb big whoop. No one will probably remember this. Stick around, we need as many people as possible in the open carry movement.

DWCook: I wouldn't worry about it. It's not so much whether the information you posted in your OP was "right" or "wrong", it's more about how you deal with being "corrected" after posting some "bad" information. I can assure you that everyone has, at some point, posted incorrect or inaccurate information themselves. And from what I've seen, you seemed to very humbly accept the fact that you were wrong. In other words, no harm, no foul.

Anyway, as has already been pointed out, as long as a person is at least 21 years old and otherwise lawfully entitled to possess a firearm, that person may lawfully possess concealable firearms (note that "concealable firearms" have their own legal definition under Missouri law - not to be confused with a "rifle" or "shotgun"), in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, without a permit of any kind in the State of Missouri. The LEO who harassed you about your "loaded .45", provided it was post August 28, 2003, was simply WRONG.

Yes I do indeed take corrections very well. If I am wrong then I accept the fact that I was stating incorrect information at the time. I much rather be told politely that the information that I stated was incorrect than the old Forum troll response..that includes bashing of the individual very child like.

DWCook said:

I actually thought I was going to get blasted on here for making a false statement and not knowing the actual information and not what I thought was true. Sheesh now I am going to study and research Missouri laws like my life depended on it so this never happens again. Well at least I hope it doesn't.

Click to expand...

Hey you dumb, liberal loving, glock-hating, SOB. Don't you freaking know anything about what you are talking about?

Ok, do you feel better now?

LOL. In all seriousness, with so many laws, exclusions, provisions, regulations etc, its a wonder that anyone is brave enough to poke their head out of the door of their house without breaking something.

Always better to err on the side of caution. BUT if you see that lady again, you might want to let her know the real deal.

HYRYSC said:

Hey you dumb, liberal loving, glock-hating, SOB. Don't you freaking know anything about what you are talking about?

Click to expand...

Why did you call him an Small Of Back holster lmao? SOB HA HA HA HA!:lol:

Wait a minute.... Doesn't that fall under the Peaceable Journey Law... I carry a loaded gun everywhere, both on my hip(open carry) and in my car's glove box(obviously concealed) and I don't have a permit.... Bro that's not against the law.....

bkajun06 said:

Wait a minute.... Doesn't that fall under the Peaceable Journey Law... I carry a loaded gun everywhere, both on my hip(open carry) and in my car's glove box(obviously concealed) and I don't have a permit.... Bro that's not against the law.....

Click to expand...

The original poster has already conceded the point it is legal in MISSOURI.

Let's go back toward the original posting. Could anyone tell me when it became legal to carry a concealed weapon in a vehicle in Mo.?
I have been told by One law enforcement officer it has always been legal to carry concealed ( concealable weapons) in MO.
Just wondering.

Freedom 1st said:

The original poster has already conceded the point it is legal in MISSOURI.

Let's go back toward the original posting. Could anyone tell me when it became legal to carry a concealed weapon in a vehicle in Mo.?
I have been told by One law enforcement officer it has always been legal to carry concealed ( concealable weapons) in MO.
Just wondering.

Click to expand...

August 28, 2004

Became legal when CCW passed in 2004. Before that the gun could not be "readily accessible" in the passenger compartment... I bought my first hand gun in 1993 and after advise from Law Enforcement (members of my family) I always carried in a locked briefcase set next to my drivers seat. Well it was always locked when I happened to be pulled over by LEO's... A warrant is needed to search a locked case within a vehicle no matter what "cause" the cops think they have to search the vehicle... Don't argue with cops that are not trained properly. Let them arrest you before consenting to any illegal searches. We are all protected from them by the Framers!!!

Since 2004 all good and ready to go on my hip or sitting in the seat crease while driving.

I am kinda confused.

LMTD said:

No reason for that, very few knew the laws of missouri before visiting a missouri forum just as I do not know them for Kansas.

The officer may have "seen" your gun which would have been an "open carry" violation if it could be seen from more than one angle.

That is why I capitalized CONCEALED in the car aka can not be seen. Under the seat, laying in the seat and covered but it can not be visable if you are in an open carry restricted municipality.

I do not know the parameters of your case but think nothing less of you for not knowing the laws of a state you do not reside in, that would be like me saying if you do not know what color pants I have on your dumb, its just stupid to think such things. I have no idea of the laws of Hawaii or Minnesota etc, I have not visited them so I have had no reason to look them up.

Click to expand...

Here in Michigan open carry does not require a permitt, concealed carry does. Open carry means you have nothing to hide and you are a legal law abiding citizen that really takes serious note to the 2nd amendment that states you have the legal and moral right to arm yourself for the protection of yourself, family, property, and others. Not only does the Constitution of the United States state the fact, but is also backed up by the Michigan Constitution as well and is very clear that any city, county, or village ordinance cannot and will not override the Laws of the state. There in lies my confusion. How is it Missouri is an open carry state but local ordinences can so easily override anything the state says, and where is the real clear law. In Michigan everything has to be black and white, but in Missouri it looks to be very gray. I love open carry and do so every chance I get and am looking to move into Missouri in the next year, but Alaska is looking so much better. I really have reservations of living in a state where you have to have a permitt to wipe your butt.

OP,

I'm with others. Even the MOHP has a brochure out stating that you can have a loaded firearm in your vehicle in Missouri without a CCW endorsement. It sounds like the LEO was spot-on with what the law says. It's covered within the Castle Doctrine. (several statutes cover the entire spectrum of CD) To be completely honest, a LEO that has that much correct information and is that open about the info is a bit surprising to me.

So now it's up to you to correct the issue with that individual. Don't stress either, we all make mistakes and this is one that's very easy to correct.

jorganhugh70 said:

Here in Michigan open carry does not require a permitt, concealed carry does. Open carry means you have nothing to hide and you are a legal law abiding citizen that really takes serious note to the 2nd amendment that states you have the legal and moral right to arm yourself for the protection of yourself, family, property, and others. Not only does the Constitution of the United States state the fact, but is also backed up by the Michigan Constitution as well and is very clear that any city, county, or village ordinance cannot and will not override the Laws of the state. There in lies my confusion. How is it Missouri is an open carry state but local ordinences can so easily override anything the state says, and where is the real clear law. In Michigan everything has to be black and white, but in Missouri it looks to be very gray. I love open carry and do so every chance I get and am looking to move into Missouri in the next year, but Alaska is looking so much better. I really have reservations of living in a state where you have to have a permitt to wipe your butt.

Click to expand...

MO is a very firearms friendly state hence the d- from sara, we are working on the F but it takes time.

Back in the 80's a law was passed that allowed muni's to regulate the public carry of firearms. Many, like yourself think it fails the constitutional test, however getting it to SCOTUS or even the state SC cost a couple of barrels full of 100 dollar bills. Not enough interest in getting it changed means one person alone has to foot that bill. I ain't got it myself and most of the gun orgs do not list OC as a priority.

Most muni's do not bother with it, but a few do, mostly near KC and STL so you have to use a bit of caution and know the laws where you are going to be to prevent an unfortunate event.

Don't feel bad. Back in the old days (showing my age) it was a lengthy process to buy a handgun that involved obtaining a "permit" from your sheriff. Every time you wanted to buy a handgun, you had to give him the SN of the gun you were buying, then he did the background check. The "permit " was only good for that specific gun purchase. This approved "permit" gave the FFL dealer permission to sell you the handgun, period, that's all. Once the purchase was complete the permits job was done. You could throw it away if you wanted, you sure didn't need to haul it around with you to prove anything. I can't tell you the number of times I had to argue this with an officer as he ran a check on the gun. They ALL claimed I needed to have my "permit" to possess a handgun. A lot of people I knew carried that "permit" religiously because of this massive (and I suspect deliberate) miss-information.