Luke 22:36

GLW · Aug 30, 2011

Hi sFe,

In my next two sentences I said that "While we have the responsibility to protect our family, ultimately we place our trust in God to protect us. This is not a contradiction, though unbelievers have a hard time understanding this reasoning."

I anticipated that there would be some who would not understand the reasoning and who would disagree with the reasoning. I'm sorry that you are not able (or, perhaps, not willing) to understand this. However, this is going far afield from the purpose of this forum, so I will not respond to this thread any further, unless it is directly related to the carrying of weapons.

Glenn

GLW · Aug 30, 2011

Hi since9,

I agree with your frustration. What is really frustrating to me is that Arlandson's interpretation is probably the most common view in the commentaries.

One of the key factors in interpreting the Scriptures is to recognize one's presuppositions and account for how they affect our interpretations. Sometimes this is easy to do, and other times it is not. The issue of violence and self-defense is such an emotional issue for some people that I do not think they are able to recognize their presuppositions when it comes to Bible passages that discussion these issues.

I think that there has been a swing toward pacifism in Christian academia, but as society becomes more accepting of guns I think there will be more openness in Christian academia toward Christians and self-defense. One of the difficulties is the influence from Europe on Christian academia, and there is little openness toward self-defense in Europe.

Glenn

rodbender · Aug 30, 2011

My take on both verses mentioned in OP. These are NIV.

Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Jesus had prior knowledge of what was about to happen and wanted to make sure that a sword was available to cut off the ear of the Roman soldier. He already knew that the sword was there. He wanted to be sure that Peter knew and had access to it because he was the one to do the cutting.

Absolutely nothing to do with carrying weapons as a general practice.

Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

He wanted the disciples to know that when they were to be taken into custody, they would not defend themselves with the sword because they had to stay alive to minister to the people and spread his word. It was also to say that if you live an aggressive life then you will die an aggressive death, if not in this life, then in the next or both.

Nothing at all to do with NOT carrying weapons as a general practice.

GLW · Aug 31, 2011

Hi Rodbender,

The Luke 22:36 passage is in a context about what the future holds for the disciples. In contrast to the previous mission on which they went, in which they did not need to take any supplies, now they will have to take along supplies. It is in this context that Jesus tells them to obtain swords. If the sword was only meant for the immediate setting, then we have to wonder about the purpose of the supplies. While certainly having the swords has importance in the Garden, the command to obtain swords is primarily directed toward the disciples' future missionary activities. In light of this, then, the command to obtain swords does have great importance to the topic of carrying weapons.

Glenn

rodbender · Sep 1, 2011

GLW said:
Hi Rodbender,

The Luke 22:36 passage is in a context about what the future holds for the disciples. In contrast to the previous mission on which they went, in which they did not need to take any supplies, now they will have to take along supplies. It is in this context that Jesus tells them to obtain swords. If the sword was only meant for the immediate setting, then we have to wonder about the purpose of the supplies. While certainly having the swords has importance in the Garden, the command to obtain swords is primarily directed toward the disciples' future missionary activities. In light of this, then, the command to obtain swords does have great importance to the topic of carrying weapons.

Glenn

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

Oramac · Sep 1, 2011

This is actually something I've been looking at/into for a couple years now. short version: "sword" as we know it and "sword" as it was used in the time of Jesus meant 2 very different things. We hear the word and think of William Wallace and Knights wielding huge two-handed or hand-and-a-half swords used for war, or even Blackbeard and such wielding one-handed swords aboard ship (which are actually a Cutlass, if you want to get technical). Point is, the word "sword" as Jesus used it was a Greek word that referred to a small dagger, or dirk. Basically, something useful for personal defense, but worthless for anything on a larger scale than that.

Longer version: see here. A very good, referenced and detailed writeup that looks at the whole Bible, rather than just a few verses, in relation to armed self defense.

GLW · Sep 1, 2011

Hi killercamaro,

The word for sword that is used in Luke 22:36 (the Greek word MAXAIRA) actually has quite a range of possible meanings, ranging from a short knife to a large sword, and various sizes in between. This word for sword can refer to tools that would found around the house, as well as the typical weapon of a soldier. It seems that the meaning of the word is very flexible, and depends upon information given in the context as to what it means. (Unfortunately, there isn't any other information in Luke 22:36 that tells us what size the sword may be. Apparently it is large enough to swing and cut off an ear, and apparently do a lot more damage than that.) Here are some selected uses of the word in the Bible, in order to see some of the ways the word is used:

Gen 22:6, 10; Josh 5:2-3 (a knife)
Gen 48:22; Exo 17:13; Josh 10:11; 1 Chron 5:18; 21:5 (a tool of war)
Judg 3:16 (a short sword 18 inches long)
Acts 12:2 (an instrument of government execution)
Rom 13:4 (the instrument of the government, which would be a military weapon)
Eph 6:17 (a metaphorical usage following the pattern of a soldier's armor and weapon)
Heb 4:12 (a metaphorical usage in which the sword is a double-edged weapon, presumably larger than a knife)
Rev 6:4 (the sword is called "huge")

Glenn

Oramac · Sep 2, 2011

GLW said:
Hi killercamaro,

The word for sword that is used in Luke 22:36 (the Greek word MAXAIRA) actually has quite a range of possible meanings, ranging from a short knife to a large sword, and various sizes in between. This word for sword can refer to tools that would found around the house, as well as the typical weapon of a soldier. It seems that the meaning of the word is very flexible, and depends upon information given in the context as to what it means. (Unfortunately, there isn't any other information in Luke 22:36 that tells us what size the sword may be. Apparently it is large enough to swing and cut off an ear, and apparently do a lot more damage than that.) Here are some selected uses of the word in the Bible, in order to see some of the ways the word is used:

Gen 22:6, 10; Josh 5:2-3 (a knife)
Gen 48:22; Exo 17:13; Josh 10:11; 1 Chron 5:18; 21:5 (a tool of war)
Judg 3:16 (a short sword 18 inches long)
Acts 12:2 (an instrument of government execution)
Rom 13:4 (the instrument of the government, which would be a military weapon)
Eph 6:17 (a metaphorical usage following the pattern of a soldier's armor and weapon)
Heb 4:12 (a metaphorical usage in which the sword is a double-edged weapon, presumably larger than a knife)
Rev 6:4 (the sword is called "huge")

Glenn

Thanks for the clarification! Though I think that given the varied usage of the word, inferring that it is any one particular kind of weapon is something of a moot point.

That said, did you read the rest of the link I posted? I believe it gives a very compelling argument for the possession/use of weapons in self-defense within the context of the Bible.

GLW · Sep 2, 2011

Hi killercamaro,

I'm sorry, but I only skimmed it previously, but now I read it in full. This brief summary is fine, though it never really tells us how Jesus' teachings on peace are to be integrated with his teachings about buying a sword. I'm not trying to be critical of the article--I'm a bit of a stickler on details on this sort of thing, since I currently working on my Ph.D. dissertation on this very topic.

Glenn

Oramac · Sep 3, 2011

GLW said:
Hi killercamaro,

I'm sorry, but I only skimmed it previously, but now I read it in full. This brief summary is fine, though it never really tells us how Jesus' teachings on peace are to be integrated with his teachings about buying a sword. I'm not trying to be critical of the article--I'm a bit of a stickler on details on this sort of thing, since I currently working on my Ph.D. dissertation on this very topic.

Glenn

Very good observation. After re-reading it myself, I think its lack of "integration advice" (for lack of a better term) is done on purpose. Not being a biblical scholar myself, I get the feeling that it's up to each individual person how we PERSONALLY integrate Jesus' teachings with our decision to buy a sword for self defense. Some of us may decide that our beliefs overrule our need for SD and not carry, and others may decide that those same beliefs integrate seamlessly with our need for SD, thus we choose to carry.

Again, this is JMO, so take it with a large grain of salt.

EDIT: Good luck on your dissertation too! I've written similar papers (different topics) and know they can be stressful, but rewarding.

GLW · Sep 4, 2011

Thanks, killercamaro. It is a difficult topic to cover.

I'm not sure it is purely open to individual interpretation, but the further away we get from specific passages of Scripture, the harder it becomes to come to a definitive conclusion.

Glenn

Luke 22:36

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