Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: ATF's Chief, Melman, has been removed

  1. #1
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543

    ATF's Chief, Melman, has been removed

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62320.html

    No mention was made of his leadership of Fast & Furious as a reason for his removal.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    on the move
    Posts
    558
    NPR put 2 and 2 together in their story: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ces-new-leader

    Normal progression of a scandal:
    1. Uncritical Acceptance
    2. Wild Enthusiasm
    3. Dejected Disillusionment
    4. Total Confusion
    5. Search for the Guilty
    6. Punishment of the Innocent
    7. Promotion of the Non-participants

    I think we're in phase 4 transitioning to phase 5.
    Last edited by Eeyore; 08-30-2011 at 09:57 PM.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    NPR put 2 and 2 together in their story: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ces-new-leader

    Normal progression of a scandal:
    1. Uncritical Acceptance
    2. Wild Enthusiasm
    3. Dejected Disillusionment
    4. Total Confusion
    5. Search for the Guilty
    6. Punishment of the Innocent
    7. Promotion of the Non-participant

    I think we're in phase 4 transitioning to phase 5.
    Shouldn't #7 be "Promotion of the PARTICIPANTS"... this is goverment after all!

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    How can the new acting director also continue to be the chief prosecutor for Minnesota? Isn't there a conflict of interest there?

    http://usat.ly/qzLvZl
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    NPR put 2 and 2 together...
    You think so?

    Nah. That's too difficult.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ATF's Chief, Melman, has been removed....removed to where? A different office, right down the hall from his old office. Probably has a better view than his last office.
    From the article I cited above:

    "Holder said Melson will become senior adviser on forensic science in the Justice Department's Office of Legal Policy."
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  7. #7
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    He is also 18 years into his vestment of 20 years for retirement.

    I hope Sen. Issa manages to get him fired without retirement benefits.

    Of course, I wish I could eat chocolate without gaining weight, too.
    Last edited by okboomer; 08-31-2011 at 01:51 PM.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    I hope Sen. Issa manages to get him fired without retirement benefits.
    Not I. I've seen that happen to far too many people to wish it on anyone. I think it would be more appropriate to change the President's, Congress', and the Supreme Court's "retirement plan" from 100% of pay to the same deal given to those serving our country via the military.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,086
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Not I. I've seen that happen to far too many people to wish it on anyone. I think it would be more appropriate to change the President's, Congress', and the Supreme Court's "retirement plan" from 100% of pay to the same deal given to those serving our country via the military.
    What kind of retirement plan is the dead Border Patrol agent enjoying...?

  10. #10
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Not I. I've seen that happen to far too many people to wish it on anyone. I think it would be more appropriate to change the President's, Congress', and the Supreme Court's "retirement plan" from 100% of pay to the same deal given to those serving our country via the military.
    At one point in time, Melman had to understand just how dangerous this Fast and Furious program was, and CHOSE not to be a whistle blower. And he had the rank. That is what bother's me the most. HE HAD THE RANK to make it through any sort of whistle-blower fallout. He simply chose to hide behind "just following orders" and that isn't even what he was doing despite his claims otherwise now. He was an active participant, not a reluctant participant.

    I am not advocating Melman go to jail as I don't see his participation rising to that level ... he didn't come up with the program, and it wasn't his decision to deploy the program. But he definitely was an active participant.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Provo, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    I am not advocating Melman go to jail as I don't see his participation rising to that level ... he didn't come up with the program, and it wasn't his decision to deploy the program. But he definitely was an active participant.
    I do advocate he and ALL participants go to jail. It is high time we stop letting government agents break the law for ANY reason and get away with it. They are citizens with no more rights or privileges than any one else (remember that little detail about equal protection under the law?).

  12. #12
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,770
    All of you who have posted have good points. What disturbs me even more is the fact that both Holder and Obama have denied knowledge of this fiasco. Whatever happened to Harry S. Truman's sign, "The buck stops here"?

    It has always been my understanding that the ultimate responsibility for an action, or lack thereof, rests on the shoulders of the person in charge. Holder, as Attorney General, should have been well aware of what was going on. Obama, as President, should have gotten daily briefings on the progress of such an unorthodox operation. The fact that both are claiming complete ignorance of this mess is, in my eyes, evidence of dereliction of duty.

    Holder, because of that dereliction, should be fired by Obama. Obama, again because of his dereliction of duty, should be "fired" by being voted out of office. Obama's offense in this particular case, unfortunately, did not rise to the level required by the Constitution for impeachment. I am not too sure that the deaths of innocent people and law enforcement officials directly linked to this operation should not be cause for criminal complaints up to at least the level of Attorney General.

  13. #13
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    All of you who have posted have good points. What disturbs me even more is the fact that both Holder and Obama have denied knowledge of this fiasco. Whatever happened to Harry S. Truman's sign, "The buck stops here"?

    It has always been my understanding that the ultimate responsibility for an action, or lack thereof, rests on the shoulders of the person in charge. Holder, as Attorney General, should have been well aware of what was going on. Obama, as President, should have gotten daily briefings on the progress of such an unorthodox operation. The fact that both are claiming complete ignorance of this mess is, in my eyes, evidence of dereliction of duty.

    Holder, because of that dereliction, should be fired by Obama. Obama, again because of his dereliction of duty, should be "fired" by being voted out of office. Obama's offense in this particular case, unfortunately, did not rise to the level required by the Constitution for impeachment. I am not too sure that the deaths of innocent people and law enforcement officials directly linked to this operation should not be cause for criminal complaints up to at least the level of Attorney General.
    I think that concept pretty much went out the window when Clinton said the Waco massacre was Janet Reno's operation.....

  14. #14
    Regular Member William Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I think that concept pretty much went out the window when Clinton said the Waco massacre was Janet Reno's operation.....


    "The buck never got here".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •