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Thread: Van Hollen

  1. #1
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    Van Hollen

    I have read the story on the Culver's incident in Madison and the MPD memo to the MPD leos on how to arrest OC persons. They are disregarding the 2009 Advisory Memo by Van Hollen. In fact MPD has interpreted the DC statute to mean that even if persons are not causing a DC, the mere presence of a firearm rattling nerves constitutes a DC. Please read the footnotes in the Advisory Memo. It is not a FORMAL OPINION. Thus it doesn't carry any weight in my view. It is a two sided memo saying: Yes you can OC but you can't. I e mailed senator Grothman an e mail to Van Hollen stating that I was dissapointed with his memo. I don't think I'll receive a reply. Here is my e mail to Van Hollen: Dear Attorney General Van Hollen:

    I just finished reading your 2009 Advisory Memo to all Wisconsin DAs in clarifying the disorderly conduct statute regarding open carry as enumerated inArticle 1 Sec 25. It is understandable that there is a general mistrust between law enforcement, local governments and citizens as to their constitutional rights, and you have taken a step in educating us and local prosecutors and law enforcements that Wisconsinites do have a right to keep and bear arms. Former governor Doyle in vetoing conceal to carry bill said: "If you want to carry a gun in Wisconsin, wear it on your hip."

    I was deeply disappointed that in your memo under notation number 2) you stated that "This Informal Advisory memorandum does not constitute a formal opinion of the Wisconsin Attorney General or the Wis DOJ under statute 165.015(1). Yet the statute states: 1) Give opinion to officers. Give his or her opinion in writing, when required, without fee, upon all questions of law submitted to him or her by the legislature, either house thereof or the senate or assembly committee on organization, or by the head of any department of state government.

    So In my view, you seem to be speaking out of both sides: "Yes you can open carry, but you can't." This also seems to mean that local law enforcement will arrest you and charge you with a disorderly conduct even if I was not violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud etc. only because the mere presence of the gun caused mass hysteria. As a law abiding citizen, I am deeply disappointed. I hope you do reply to my concern.

    I hope that the Wi Carry lawsuit stemming from the Culver's incident will create a formal opinion by the court or Van Hollen. If not, this has to go to the WI supreme court. In the meanwhile leos, DAs county sheriff's deputies will continue to accost us. I am aware of our constitutional rights but I am also aware that the law enforcement world in general refuses to recognize our right and many of us will end up with fines and court costs. I guess I don't mind a membership fee for WI Carry so that a fund can be created to defend it's members and get lobbysts to get the legislature to get on our side. Any advice on this issue???

  2. #2
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I have read the story on the Culver's incident in Madison and the MPD memo to the MPD leos on how to arrest OC persons. They are disregarding the 2009 Advisory Memo by Van Hollen. In fact MPD has interpreted the DC statute to mean that even if persons are not causing a DC, the mere presence of a firearm rattling nerves constitutes a DC. Please read the footnotes in the Advisory Memo. It is not a FORMAL OPINION. Thus it doesn't carry any weight in my view. It is a two sided memo saying: Yes you can OC but you can't. I e mailed senator Grothman an e mail to Van Hollen stating that I was dissapointed with his memo. I don't think I'll receive a reply. Here is my e mail to Van Hollen: Dear Attorney General Van Hollen:

    I just finished reading your 2009 Advisory Memo to all Wisconsin DAs in clarifying the disorderly conduct statute regarding open carry as enumerated inArticle 1 Sec 25. It is understandable that there is a general mistrust between law enforcement, local governments and citizens as to their constitutional rights, and you have taken a step in educating us and local prosecutors and law enforcements that Wisconsinites do have a right to keep and bear arms. Former governor Doyle in vetoing conceal to carry bill said: "If you want to carry a gun in Wisconsin, wear it on your hip."

    I was deeply disappointed that in your memo under notation number 2) you stated that "This Informal Advisory memorandum does not constitute a formal opinion of the Wisconsin Attorney General or the Wis DOJ under statute 165.015(1). Yet the statute states: 1) Give opinion to officers. Give his or her opinion in writing, when required, without fee, upon all questions of law submitted to him or her by the legislature, either house thereof or the senate or assembly committee on organization, or by the head of any department of state government.

    So In my view, you seem to be speaking out of both sides: "Yes you can open carry, but you can't." This also seems to mean that local law enforcement will arrest you and charge you with a disorderly conduct even if I was not violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud etc. only because the mere presence of the gun caused mass hysteria. As a law abiding citizen, I am deeply disappointed. I hope you do reply to my concern.

    I hope that the Wi Carry lawsuit stemming from the Culver's incident will create a formal opinion by the court or Van Hollen. If not, this has to go to the WI supreme court. In the meanwhile leos, DAs county sheriff's deputies will continue to accost us. I am aware of our constitutional rights but I am also aware that the law enforcement world in general refuses to recognize our right and many of us will end up with fines and court costs. I guess I don't mind a membership fee for WI Carry so that a fund can be created to defend it's members and get lobbysts to get the legislature to get on our side. Any advice on this issue???

    Ummmmm...... Act 35 has now made that memo law. A little late to write JB.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Yep, Here Is What ACT 35 States....

    SECTION 21. 66.0409 (6) of the statutes is created to
    read:
    66.0409 (6) Unless other facts and circumstances that
    indicate a criminal or malicious intent on the part of the
    person apply, no person may be in violation of, or be
    charged with a violation of, an ordinance of a political
    subdivision relating to disorderly conduct or other inappropriate
    behavior for loading, carrying, or going armed
    with a firearm, without regard to whether the firearm is
    loaded or is concealed or openly carried. Any ordinance
    in violation of this subsection does not apply and may not
    be enforced.

    I believe that went into effect on 22JULY2011.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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  5. #5
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard, & don't feel too bad...
    even those of us who have been around a while occasionally miss a thread that's dealing with whatever we're concerned about.

    I suggest you go to the WI forum & browse the stickies,
    especially the vast wealth of information in "New to OC in WI, here's what you should know".

    And if you'd like to look through the new SB93 / Act 35, there's a PDF in my sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  6. #6
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Ummmmm...... Act 35 has now made that memo law. A little late to write JB.
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

  7. #7
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    Thanks

    Good. That puts my concern to rest. SB93/Act35 have made JB's Advisory Memo official and into law. Thanks Paul. I will become a member of Wi Carry! Now if anyone is in the Ellsworth area who is a OC, I would like to know.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    You took the words right out of my mouth.
    This ^
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  9. #9
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Good. That puts my concern to rest. SB93/Act35 have made JB's Advisory Memo official and into law. Thanks Paul. I will become a member of Wi Carry! Now if anyone is in the Ellsworth area who is a OC, I would like to know.

    If you go to my New to OC thread click on the fifth link (Hesitant to OC alone) and you will find a list of individuals around the state that are willing to meet up\assist with new carriers.
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 08-31-2011 at 04:37 PM.
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  10. #10
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    This comment goes with any state you may OC in: Act like you are confident you are not doing anything illegal...NEVER act nervous! Put your holster on your belt, and then act like it is no different than carrying a cell phone.

    The LE community, especially at border crossings, are well trained to look at how a person is acting. If they are confident, they probably know what they are doing is legal...if they are nervous, maybe something is up. They will key on the nervous action and continue to observe you, maybe even stop you to try find out what is up.

    Be confident in your knowledge that you are doing nothing illegal (and of course, do nothing illegal) and the odds are you will never even be talked to. I have OC'd for over 40 years, and had only one, two word, discussion with a Sheriff's Deputy, and that was someone (city person I'm sure) called MWAG when I was in a grocery store buying supplies.

  11. #11
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    Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    This comment goes with any state you may OC in: Act like you are confident you are not doing anything illegal...NEVER act nervous! Put your holster on your belt, and then act like it is no different than carrying a cell phone.

    The LE community, especially at border crossings, are well trained to look at how a person is acting. If they are confident, they probably know what they are doing is legal...if they are nervous, maybe something is up. They will key on the nervous action and continue to observe you, maybe even stop you to try find out what is up.

    Be confident in your knowledge that you are doing nothing illegal (and of course, do nothing illegal) and the odds are you will never even be talked to. I have OC'd for over 40 years, and had only one, two word, discussion with a Sheriff's Deputy, and that was someone (city person I'm sure) called MWAG when I was in a grocery store buying supplies.
    Right O Hermannr. Thanks for the thumbs up and the rest of you. Thanks for the OC willing to help out. I'll look at the liost tomorrow. Have to get home. An hour and5 each way.

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