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Thread: Recording Law Enforcement Officials while they are on duty in Va...

  1. #1
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    Recording Law Enforcement Officials while they are on duty in Va...

    It's legal here right? Because this man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBwQyg9CjnI&sns=fb from Illinois is facing up to 75 years in prison for doing just that.

    My opinion= Police are Public Servants and they should be held accountable. I should have every right to film or record you doing your Public Service job, ESPECIALLY if you are brutalizing someone or committing acts unbecoming of an Officer of the Law.

    The news station's follow-up to the story is here http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=204197

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code of Virginia 19.2-62

    2. It shall not be a criminal offense under this chapter for a person to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception.

    Source: Code of Virginia 19.2-62
    Thank God for Virginia! (although even VA laws can be improved)

    OC, carry a recorder, & stay safe.
    Last edited by Sesrun; 08-30-2011 at 10:46 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteXD View Post
    It's legal here right? Because this man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBwQyg9CjnI&sns=fb from Illinois is facing up to 75 years in prison for doing just that.

    My opinion= Police are Public Servants and they should be held accountable. I should have every right to film or record you doing your Public Service job, ESPECIALLY if you are brutalizing someone or committing acts unbecoming of an Officer of the Law.

    The news station's follow-up to the story is here http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=204197

    Thoughts?
    If this man goes to jail, he will be a political prisoner. Where is Amnesty International? Not that I trust them to get anything right... As noted before, the states that outlaw this are the most corrupt in the country.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    If this man goes to jail, he will be a political prisoner. Where is Amnesty International? Not that I trust them to get anything right... As noted before, the states that outlaw this are the most corrupt in the country.

    TFred
    Are you implying that Illinois is corrupt? How dare you! Look at their fearless leaders. George Ryan, Rod Blagojevich.[sarcasm off] In fact, four of their last eight governors went to jail on corruption related charges. I would say your assessment is dead on.

    http://www.chicagonow.com/jane-of-al...nce-the-1970s/

    I am glad that recording is legal in VA. I didn't use to record but after reading stories on OCDO I finally started. Now I don't go anywhere without it.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  5. #5
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    State Slogans ...

    VA has 'Virginia Is For Lovers' .. IL has 'Illinois, Where Our Governors Make Our Licence Plates'

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Anywhere that the people in power are afraid of letting someone document each and every move they make are people who need to have each and every move they make documented.

    Yes, I agree that there are certain restrictions that might be necessary - such as not exposing an undercover officer while he is working a case. But I do not think that even undercover cops who are so good they get assigned to cases over and over again should be totally exempt from being recorded. But as for street cops doing whatever it is they do, there should be no restrictions on audio and/or video recording of their activities. The only limitation I would agree with is that the person doing the recording should not physically impede their action (intentionally stand between the cop and the subject of the cop's interest, actively assist a person in escaping from the custody of a cop even if the cop is beating a handcuffed person over the head*).

    Until the day when citizens have free ability to record their public servants we are not citizens but serfs.

    stay safe.

    * Better to be a good witness. You might not know all the facts about why the cop is beating them over the head. And besides, if the cop was wrong and you can help prove it, stopping recording to interfere will stop your ability to help prove the cop was wrong.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  7. #7
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I always carry a recorder now, and record not only LEO encounters but my dealings with my bank, insurance company, county officials, etc. I have been lied to enough! You should have seen the guys face at the county when I called him a liar and hit the play button! He has been "reassigned" and I have made an enemy.

    Oh well. I am proud to be an enemy of a habitual liar in a position of authority!

  8. #8
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    I always carry a recorder now, and record not only LEO encounters but my dealings with my bank, insurance company, county officials, etc. I have been lied to enough! You should have seen the guys face at the county when I called him a liar and hit the play button! He has been "reassigned" and I have made an enemy.

    Oh well. I am proud to be an enemy of a habitual liar in a position of authority!
    I know there are already cases on this (http://www.pixiq.com/article/wiretap...-massachusetts)
    and actual rulings. Considering how corrupt Illinois is it won't surprise me to see it get to the Supreme Court. It is usually thrown out on first amendment from recollection, but I haven't dug up any references yet.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  9. #9
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Nuc, had the recorder in my top pocket! Plus this is VA not MA!
    Why would a government official be afraid of my recording what he says to my face?

    Oh, that's right, never mind.
    Last edited by riverrat10k; 08-31-2011 at 04:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The problem is that it doesn't matter whether or not these cases keep getting thrown out. By then the "offender" is already well-punished. TPTB couldn't care less if this guy actually goes to jail. Everyone else who may be inclined to record a LEO will know that at the least they can look forward to arrest and a massively expensive legal battle. It's punishment by prosecution. Only after a few 5 or 6 figure civil rights lawsuit settlements are won will it ever stop.

    TFred

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    I recently bought a GoPro HD mini camera. Gonna put that sucker on my dash (and on my tank when I'm riding my Rice Rocket). Gotta invest in a good, pocket sized turn-it-on-and-forget-it type voice recorder... any suggestions?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteXD View Post
    .... Gotta invest in a good, pocket sized turn-it-on-and-forget-it type voice recorder... any suggestions?
    Use the search feature - as crappy as it might be. It's been discussed here in the Virginia forum as well as in many other places on the board.

    Basically, look for something that has a long record time, which means a large amount of storage capacity. Also look at being able to transfer what you recorded from the device to a computer, and what formats you can use to save the recording.

    Then get the best batteries you can. Most folks migrate to rechargable NiMH, and look for the greatest MAH rating they can find. (I'm currently using "NUON" brand AAAs with a 2500 MAH rating and can record all day (7 AM - 11:30 PM) and have at least half the charge left. I carry a spare set in my pocket just in case, and rotate the two sets every night (used ones to recharge, new ones in before bed so I'm ready to go in the AM).

    Turn the recorder on when you get dressed, and keep it going all day. You will not have tme to turn it on when things start going all pear-shaped and probably the stuff you could have recorded just before everything climbed into the handbasket was the most important stuff anyhow. (You know, like telling the potential BG to stay away, or telling the banty rooster "Thank you very much, but no, I am not looking for a fight."

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Federal Appeals court finds recording LEO protected by the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesrun View Post
    Thank God for Virginia! (although even VA laws can be improved)

    OC, carry a recorder, & stay safe.
    Look, a reasonable opinion from the Fist Circuit Court of Appeals:


    Appeals Court Rules It Is Not Illegal To Film Police
    The filming of government officials engaged in their duties in a public place, including police officers performing their responsibilities, fits comfortably within these principles [of protected First Amendment activity]. Gathering information about government officials in a form that can readily be disseminated to others serves a cardinal First Amendment interest in protecting and promoting the free discussion of governmental affairs.
    The court ruling also made it clear that bloggers who report news based on their recordings of police have equal protection under the law as journalists:
    The proliferation of electronic devices with video-recording capability means that many of our images of current events come from bystanders with a ready cell phone or digital camera rather than a traditional film crew, and news stories are now just as likely to be broken by a blogger at her computer as a reporter at a major newspaper. Such developments make clear why the news-gathering protections of the First Amendment cannot turn on professional credentials or status.
    The following has the opinion:

    Victory for liberty and the right to videotape public officials

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Use the search feature - as crappy as it might be. It's been discussed here in the Virginia forum as well as in many other places on the board.

    Basically, look for something that has a long record time, which means a large amount of storage capacity. Also look at being able to transfer what you recorded from the device to a computer, and what formats you can use to save the recording.

    Then get the best batteries you can. Most folks migrate to rechargable NiMH, and look for the greatest MAH rating they can find. (I'm currently using "NUON" brand AAAs with a 2500 MAH rating and can record all day (7 AM - 11:30 PM) and have at least half the charge left. I carry a spare set in my pocket just in case, and rotate the two sets every night (used ones to recharge, new ones in before bed so I'm ready to go in the AM).

    Turn the recorder on when you get dressed, and keep it going all day. You will not have tme to turn it on when things start going all pear-shaped and probably the stuff you could have recorded just before everything climbed into the handbasket was the most important stuff anyhow. (You know, like telling the potential BG to stay away, or telling the banty rooster "Thank you very much, but no, I am not looking for a fight."

    stay safe.
    thanks! I'll look into it! Had my GoPro on my motorcycle on the way to Blueridge shooting range. OCing to boot! Shooting 960p HD video at 30fps. A reasonable substitute until I get my recorder.

    Pete

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    picked up an Olympus VN-8100PC today from walmart for $60 and some rechargeable batteries! :-D

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteXD View Post
    picked up an Olympus VN-8100PC today from walmart for $60 and some rechargeable batteries! :-D
    Now remember to carry it with you and keep it turned on.

    One of the enjoyable acts of my bedtime routiune is turning off the recorder and erasing a day full of "nothing happened".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I have two - the Olympus which allows a USB port and a small recorder MP3 player which clips on a lapel (and looks like an MP3 player).

    The Olympus runs in the car whenever we're driving and the MP3 player when I'm on foot. I also run a handle-bar mounted vid cam which records all my bike rides.

    It's not an easy regime to do, takes planning and battery rotation and spares, but I got into it riding my road bicycle and got some great stuff, the best being several fawns galumphing across the trail one Spring day!

    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I have two - the Olympus which allows a USB port and a small recorder MP3 player which clips on a lapel (and looks like an MP3 player).
    ...
    Hey, Badger,

    Any chance you were OCing while all that was happening?

    Or was the threat of a cop ruining your day still too much of a chance to take?

    Seriously - come on out of the bunker just once. Come to an OC dinner, or an OC picnic, or an OC breakfast. You don't need to actually OC (or CC) yourself, but seeing others doing it might change your mind about the risk of getting rousted by the cops. Do you remember that I've offered to repay your gas expenses?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Hey, Badger,

    Any chance you were OCing while all that was happening?

    Or was the threat of a cop ruining your day still too much of a chance to take?

    Seriously - come on out of the bunker just once. Come to an OC dinner, or an OC picnic, or an OC breakfast. You don't need to actually OC (or CC) yourself, but seeing others doing it might change your mind about the risk of getting rousted by the cops. Do you remember that I've offered to repay your gas expenses?

    stay safe.
    You just don't understand my situation. If I was harassed and proned out by a LEO in the exercise of their official business I'd be PUT IN A WHEELCHAIR FOR LIFE. As it is now I can walk with a cane and am in pain 24/7.

    I have an injury to my spinal nerves and spine because I SAVED SOME MORON'S LIFE from being crushed by an 800lb top loaded lab refrigerator which he attempted to move with a standard dolly. Hope this helps explain why I can't risk being thrown on the ground and stomped on by some well-meaning scaredy-cat cop, who has just too much testosterone on board, or have some well-meaning Citizen come up and push me over. My stability is just too low to risk even a rare event.

    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 09-09-2011 at 05:15 PM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    You just don't understand my situation. If I was harassed and proned out by a LEO in the exercise of their official business I'd be PUT IN A WHEELCHAIR FOR LIFE. As it is now I can walk with a cane and am in pain 24/7.

    I have an injury to my spinal nerves and spine because I SAVED SOME MORON'S LIFE from being crushed by an 800lb top loaded lab refrigerator which he attempted to move with a standard dolly. Hope this helps explain why I can't risk being thrown on the ground and stomped on by some well-meaning scaredy-cat cop, who has just too much testosterone on board, or have some well-meaning Citizen come up and push me over. My stability is just too low to risk even a rare event.

    Have a nice day.
    Ok still come to a event and dont carry. If you carry I will be sure to be there and will take care of the rest.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All American Nightmare View Post
    Ok still come to a event and dont carry. If you carry I will be sure to be there and will take care of the rest.
    We're not talking about coming to an 'event' like an OC dinner or cook-out. We're talking about doing an OC as a way of life on the street day to day.

    Although I like picnics, I really don't see the point of coming to an OC event. I'm sure they're nice people and all. If anyone wants to know more about me, I'd be glad to provide a pic or two in a PM, or talk about my background in self-defense (which is extensive).

    Maybe you can explain why people want to meet me in person. I'm actually a very nice person and there's no reason to wonder about me.

    Thanks for the offer, though, you're too kind.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Let's see. I have significant heart disease and can suffer either an MI or Vtac/Vfib (take your pick) and die on the spot. Stress just exacerbates the risks. I have a bad back and will most likely end up in a wheelchair if thrown to the ground, and could end up there anyhow just by sneezing/coughing/twisting the wrong way. Legs? They don't work right and haven't for years. Ability to walk away quickly, let alone run away? Nonexistent. Lungs? Thanks to the heart and years of smoking they barely work right when I'm sitting down. Show me a pretty girl, let alone get me to do anything physical like walk 200 feet and I'm out of breath and need to rest. And the new one - diabetes - just makes it all the more likely that any/all of the other systems will go out of whack. Not to mention the side effects of all the different meds I take to help support Big Pharma (and supposedly keep me alive).

    Pains 24/7? Which one, from which condition? I count what hurts when I get awake in the AM just to figure out if something has gone wrong - if the pain is no longer there something bad has happened.

    You've got as much chance of being thrown to the ground as you do having your cane collapse under you.


    But you ride a bike?? So you are willing to take life-altering, if not death-defying, risks.

    Ad hominem attacks are not permitted, so I'm not sure how to suggest that your expressed fear of being thrown to the ground and made a physical cripple is perhaps a bit more drama than a reasonable concern. But if I do figure it out, I'll do it in a respectful manner, I assure you.

    The point is I don't think anybody really cares if you carry OC, CC or not at all. But for myself your expressing fear that you will get thrown to the ground and be made a cripple is getting old and tiresome. Stop using that excuse and just say "No, thank you. I do not wish to OC, but am pleased to be here and support your collective efforts to do so and to reduce the amount of inappropriate responses you individually and collectively receive from both the police and non-LEO who do not seem to understand that OCing is both legal and non-threatening.

    I assure you that I will not bring up the subject again.

    And I truely do thank you for supporting the efforts to make OC acceptable by everyone.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  23. #23
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I have two - the Olympus which allows a USB port and a small recorder MP3 player which clips on a lapel (and looks like an MP3 player).

    The Olympus runs in the car whenever we're driving and the MP3 player when I'm on foot. I also run a handle-bar mounted vid cam which records all my bike rides.

    It's not an easy regime to do, takes planning and battery rotation and spares, but I got into it riding my road bicycle and got some great stuff, the best being several fawns galumphing across the trail one Spring day!
    I thought the "Oh Sh*t" when you fell was a tad humorous.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  24. #24
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...

    But you ride a bike?? So you are willing to take life-altering, if not death-defying, risks.
    ...
    In his other posted bike video Badger (I assume) did fall, with a standard... ahhh sh**

    The falling wasn't funny, but the explicative was...
    Last edited by nuc65; 09-09-2011 at 08:15 PM.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    In her other posted bike video Badger ....
    Please remember that Badger's picture is not one of himself. He is a he, but chooses to use the picture of someone else as an avatar. I have no objection to that, as I have chosen to use a picture that is more flattering and less frightening than one of my own visage.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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