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My first 12031e check. Menlo Park, CA

Thejoyofdriving

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
55
Location
CA
Hey guys, just had my first e check and figured I would post it. Im new to open carry but I have been open carrying every day since I started. Ive carried quite at bit in Menlo Park, Palo Alto and Los Altos. Im not sure if "the movement" has spread down to these cities, ive never seen anyone else open carry. I sort of feel like the first. So far no one seemed to care too much. I guess this night an employee or customer called in a 10-32(man with a gun), or maybe it was just a coincidence that they showed up. I tried to be as polite as possible and be a good "ambassador" for open carry(I figured LEO around here maybe havent seen open carry in person, only in videos)while at the same time not handing over all my rights.

Im pleased to report that Menlo Park PD seems to have received training in regards to open carriers. The encounter went pretty smoothly i think. No guns out and screaming :lol: I will admit I was a bit nervous, so I rambled a bit talking about the firing pin spring and such. I meant to say one thing, and something else came out :lol: Either way here it is, audio only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0swZ7e-b2wI
 
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JBolder

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
17
Location
SLO county
Good job, you handled it well in my opinion. Kept it civil, no consent to e-check, they still don't know your name and it was all recorded. Well done.
 

Thejoyofdriving

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
55
Location
CA
Good job, you handled it well in my opinion. Kept it civil, no consent to e-check, they still don't know your name and it was all recorded. Well done.

Thanks! If one does give their name though, do you think they keep some unofficial record that you had a open carry encounter? I figure its best not to just in case, but I am curious.
 
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bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
Not bad first police encounter. Looks like you lucked out with a professional officer who didn't feel the need to lecture you (but he did feel the need to 12031(e) check you...). You were friendly but preserved your rights. Well done.

My only suggestion is that if you are not consenting to an (e) check that you shouldn't say, "go right ahead" when the officer says he is going to check. That sounds like consent and would be argued as such.
 

Thejoyofdriving

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
55
Location
CA
Not bad first police encounter. Looks like you lucked out with a professional officer who didn't feel the need to lecture you (but he did feel the need to 12031(e) check you...). You were friendly but preserved your rights. Well done.

My only suggestion is that if you are not consenting to an (e) check that you shouldn't say, "go right ahead" when the officer says he is going to check. That sounds like consent and would be argued as such.


Thanks for the advice! I figure since they are authorized to check it anyhow, it doesnt matter if I give consent or not. I just say I do mind, and dont give consent to make a point, and I do mind. I dont know why most LEO all act like these checks are mandatory! At the same time I make sure I let them know I wont resist or go crazy if they do decided to disarm me :)
 

Firemark

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
445
Location
San Diego
I think you did a great job. Couple of things you could do if you want feedback.

-Giving your first name only is fine, ask the officer what their name is as well, and offer to shake their hand. Cordial and being civil goes a long way. If they have a card ask for it be sure to get there full names. if the interaction goes well, (your subjective opinion) ask for supervisors info so you can send a letter of appreciation. This does several things, puts them on notice they are gettin an ada boy letter, that they did something correct and should have positive reinforcement, the letter will most likely be used by supervisors as a training tool to reinforce lawful and legal contact with OC'rs.
-yea replace "go right ahead" with "I dont consent, but I wont obstruct you" you sort of said it but could hear your nervousness in your voice, it sounded more like granting permission. Dont sweat it, you will be able to do even better next time.

Realize that officers attempt at conversation was an attempt to lower your guard and make the contact fall in the consensual type rather than stop and detain. They then tried to get info from you afterwards. Verbal Judo technique, you did great not falling into the trap.
If this happens again, reverse it on them and ask them questions about their OC training, was it adequate enough, do they feel they got enough education, do they understand the movement objectives, do they have any questions, do they know the relative case history pertaining to OC, the biased and racism based history of gun control. etc... You may have an opportunity to educate and inform with facts.

Most officers have never in their career had to deal with armed law abiding citizens, at least in California, they have all been taught from the first day that guns are evil, control all guns, seize all guns. They have never stopped and thought about lawfully armed citizens, so they have this minimal training that they just fall back on--(uh-oh its an open carrier what do we do? oh yea we are suppose to E check them). To them they just cant ask "is it unloaded?" and be ok with it, they are used to criminals lying to them ALL the time, and in their minds they have to know for sure. Thats what we have to deprogram out of them.
 

Thejoyofdriving

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
55
Location
CA
I think you did a great job. Couple of things you could do if you want feedback.

-Giving your first name only is fine, ask the officer what their name is as well, and offer to shake their hand. Cordial and being civil goes a long way. If they have a card ask for it be sure to get there full names. if the interaction goes well, (your subjective opinion) ask for supervisors info so you can send a letter of appreciation. This does several things, puts them on notice they are gettin an ada boy letter, that they did something correct and should have positive reinforcement, the letter will most likely be used by supervisors as a training tool to reinforce lawful and legal contact with OC'rs.
-yea replace "go right ahead" with "I dont consent, but I wont obstruct you" you sort of said it but could hear your nervousness in your voice, it sounded more like granting permission. Dont sweat it, you will be able to do even better next time.

Realize that officers attempt at conversation was an attempt to lower your guard and make the contact fall in the consensual type rather than stop and detain. They then tried to get info from you afterwards. Verbal Judo technique, you did great not falling into the trap.
If this happens again, reverse it on them and ask them questions about their OC training, was it adequate enough, do they feel they got enough education, do they understand the movement objectives, do they have any questions, do they know the relative case history pertaining to OC, the biased and racism based history of gun control. etc... You may have an opportunity to educate and inform with facts.

Most officers have never in their career had to deal with armed law abiding citizens, at least in California, they have all been taught from the first day that guns are evil, control all guns, seize all guns. They have never stopped and thought about lawfully armed citizens, so they have this minimal training that they just fall back on--(uh-oh its an open carrier what do we do? oh yea we are suppose to E check them). To them they just cant ask "is it unloaded?" and be ok with it, they are used to criminals lying to them ALL the time, and in their minds they have to know for sure. Thats what we have to deprogram out of them.


Wow! Fantastic post! Thanks, that is some great advice and I will be sure to try and incorporate those suggestions next time. The only problem is i find it hard to remember what to say when im in the moment. I either want to say a million things at once and get tied up(as what happened here) or I forget everything I wanted to say. :D
 

Firemark

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
445
Location
San Diego
Wow! Fantastic post! Thanks, that is some great advice and I will be sure to try and incorporate those suggestions next time. The only problem is i find it hard to remember what to say when im in the moment. I either want to say a million things at once and get tied up(as what happened here) or I forget everything I wanted to say. :D

Yea happens to me all the time, it just takes time, getting used to the adrenaline rush and nervousness to think and speak. Just take deep breaths, smile on the inside and keep saying to yourself in your mind "Im a law abiding citizen, Im obeying the law, I have nothing to fear".

It will get easier, just remember your practicing and strengthening your skills for the possibility of a bad LE encounter that we hope never happens.
 

Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
There is another approach you can use if the officer wants to come down on you like a storm trooper.
Fold your arms across you chest and say...."I decline to answer any questions and I do not consent to a search of my person or my belongings.
Keep your recorder going and then close your tater trap no matter what he/she says.
 
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Firemark

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
445
Location
San Diego
There is another approach you can use if the officer wants to come down on you like a storm trooper.
Fold your arms across you chest and say...."I decline to answer any questions and I do not consent to a search of my person or my belongings.
Keep your recorder going and then close your tater trap no matter what he/she says.

Yea I concur with that, the more stormtooper like they behave the less you talk or help them. dont be rude, in fact always strive to be more cordial and respectful then they are, it serves to make your recording more powerful in the court of public opinion (youtube). Keep asking if your detainment is over and leave when they say yes or dont answer you anymore. If they have a point to prove, dont be the proving ground, end the contact quickly and move out of there. Dont argue with anyone who has their mind made up your a POS and they want to teach you a lesson. The more you engage the more you make yourself sound like a trouble maker when your not. Fight on your battleground not theirs.
 

Thejoyofdriving

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
55
Location
CA
I figure if they are nice and respectful with me, then I will be the same. If their nasty, they wont get my cooperation.

I wish all encounters just went like:

Officer: Are you open carrying?

Me: Yes

Officer: Is it unloaded?

Me: Yes

Officer: Awesome.What gun is that? What range do you go to? What ammo do you carry? etc

Happily ever after :lol:
 

Firemark

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
445
Location
San Diego
I figure if they are nice and respectful with me, then I will be the same. If their nasty, they wont get my cooperation.

I wish all encounters just went like:

Officer: Are you open carrying?

Me: Yes

Officer: Is it unloaded?

Me: Yes

Officer: Awesome.What gun is that? What range do you go to? What ammo do you carry? etc

Happily ever after :lol:


like this one we had.
 

tall_tree

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
103
Location
"Hoity-toity" Palo Alto, California, USA
OC in Palo Alto has been great. Doing it for over two years, no problems! We even successfully challenged the Palo Alto muni code against OC last year. Going through the city council meeting minutes I even found support from citizens for our carry action. Great times!
 

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mjones

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
I figure if they are nice and respectful with me, then I will be the same. If their nasty, they wont get my cooperation.

I wish all encounters just went like:

Officer: Are you open carrying?

Me: Yes

Officer: Is it unloaded?

Me: Yes

Officer: Awesome.What gun is that? What range do you go to? What ammo do you carry? etc

Happily ever after :lol:

Even better is: Hiya! (as he walks by...)
 

Thejoyofdriving

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
55
Location
CA
OC in Palo Alto has been great. Doing it for over two years, no problems! We even successfully challenged the Palo Alto muni code against OC last year. Going through the city council meeting minutes I even found support from citizens for our carry action. Great times!

What code was the city trying to pass? Thats great that you guys made a difference!

Where have you guys been hiding! :lol: Ive been around here for 7 years and I have yet to see someone OC. Its very possible I just didnt notice. A lot of people dont notice when I OC. How many people do you know that OC and do you guys have regular meet ups?
 
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