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Thread: To brandish in a court house, or not to brandish, that is the question.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    To brandish in a court house, or not to brandish, that is the question.

    Just wondering about how to handle the whole court house scenario. Some of you have already dealt with it so I fingered I'd ask. If you go in a court house and they have lock boxes, you will have to "draw" or unholster your weapon in a sense, and put it in the lock box. When you come back you will have to reholster you firearm. That all seems pretty easy, BUT, what if they dont have lock boxes? You have to surrender your firearm to a guard.

    Do you hand it to them or make them unholster your firearm? I would think if it were I, I would make them remove my firearm sense they didnt provide lockboxes. Then I guess I would hope they didnt hand my back my firearm field stripped and an unloaded mag like others have had happened, when I come back to claim it.

    OK, maybe they didnt field strip it, but that would actually be funny if it happened to anyone but me.
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    I'd just take off the whole holster.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I haven't had to surrender it at a courthouse. I leave my holster on and put it in the lock box, making very sure it doesn't sweep anyone and my finger is well away from the trigger area.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .45ACPaddy View Post
    I'd just take off the whole holster.
    That would also be my answer as well.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I have a paddle holster and an OWB leather blackhawk CQC that snaps off the belt. I prefer to leave it in the holster. Of course Pierce Co. is stupid....
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
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    Question lock box requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    ... That all seems pretty easy, BUT, what if they dont have lock boxes? You have to surrender your firearm to a guard.

    )
    It was my understanding that they were required to have lock-boxes for this purpose...am I wrong?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    I have a different approach

    I avoid Courthouses. Last time I was in a Courthouse was 30 years ago for the Judge's "Okie Dokey" on a Divorce Decree.

    Guess I'm just lucky.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    It was my understanding that they were required to have lock-boxes for this purpose...am I wrong?
    or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping
    Either one or the other is OK under 9.41.300. They just can't force you to "go lock it in your car".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Any courthouse I have gone into has had lock boxes where I unholster and secure the weapon personally.

    If the need arises to have a person responsible of keep my firearm secure while visiting the courthouse, I also agree with asking them how we want to handle the securing of the weapon and if needed remind them I would rather unload and clear it as I would do with anyone before giving it to them.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I forgot who posted it, but there was someone, I believe GoGo, who had to surrender his firearm to security, and they asked for ID for a claim ticket? Then when he went back to pick it up, they made him wait a long time, and then gave it back unloaded, and bullets removed from the mag.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 09-01-2011 at 04:54 PM. Reason: I forgot the R in fogot.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I forgot who posted it, but there was someone, I believe GoGo, who had to surrender his firearm to security, and they asked for ID for a claim ticket? Then when he went back to pick it up, they made him wait a long time, and then gave it back unloaded, and bullets removed from the mag.
    Yes. At the pierce Tacoma city county building.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Yes. At the pierce Tacoma city county building.
    Some people here would have you believe that ALL courthouses have lockboxes, but evedintly some do not. Did you hand them your firearm, or did you make them remove it? And was it removed in the holster, or did you empty holster carry into the court? OH, and arent you battleing them on the ID thing?
    Last edited by amzbrady; 09-02-2011 at 01:27 AM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    I have always been asked to leave it in the holster when locking it up in a lockbox.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    I have always been asked to leave it in the holster when locking it up in a lockbox.
    same for me. they've always politely but firmly told me to make sure i leave the pistol in the holster, and then remove the whole thing....

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady
    To brandish in a court house, or not to brandish, that is the question.
    ***********
    bran·dish
    verb /ˈbrandiSH/ 
    brandished, past participle; brandished, past tense; brandishes, 3rd person singular present; brandishing, present participle

    Wave or flourish (something, esp. a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement

    ****************

    Never did like the term "brandish" as it's tossed around. By definition it is to "wave or flourish". The term isn't used in WA State Law, only Unlawful Display.

    Merely handling a firearm in a manner necessary to secure it in a Courthouse Lock Box (or hand to a "designated official") could hardly be considered "brandishing" unless someone chooses to add some "flourish" to the action.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    ***********
    bran·dish
    verb /ˈbrandiSH/ 
    brandished, past participle; brandished, past tense; brandishes, 3rd person singular present; brandishing, present participle

    Wave or flourish (something, esp. a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement

    ****************

    Never did like the term "brandish" as it's tossed around. By definition it is to "wave or flourish". The term isn't used in WA State Law, only Unlawful Display.

    Merely handling a firearm in a manner necessary to secure it in a Courthouse Lock Box (or hand to a "designated official") could hardly be considered "brandishing" unless someone chooses to add some "flourish" to the action.
    If officers use brandish for a holstered weapon and feel they need to confront, disarm, ID, and harrass, I wonder what they would do if you unholstered and was holding while handing your firearm to security? I think it would be best to let them remove your firearm.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member cbpeck's Avatar
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    amzbrady,

    I'm not sure if your question is hypothetical or if it pertains to an upcoming "date."

    In any case, in my experiences @ the Franklin County Courthouse the guard has provided me with a lockbox & key. When I'm done they take the box & I take the key. If I'm carrying IWB I usually pull the entire holster & transfer it while holstered. If I'm wearing a belt slide holster I simply remove the gun from the holster, just like I'd do at home, and place the gun in the box. Then I lock it, keep the key, and they store the box until I come back. The idea is that you hold the "only" key so that nobody has access to the contents while you're gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    If officers use brandish for a holstered weapon and feel they need to confront, disarm, ID, and harrass, I wonder what they would do if you unholstered and was holding while handing your firearm to security? I think it would be best to let them remove your firearm.
    Typically the court security officers are either full or limited authority LEO. If they ask you to unholster they know what they are asking and are not going to try and say you brandished. I would never unholster unless they requested it or I asked them how they would prefer me to store it.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbpeck View Post
    amzbrady,

    I'm not sure if your question is hypothetical or if it pertains to an upcoming "date."

    In any case, in my experiences @ the Franklin County Courthouse the guard has provided me with a lockbox & key. When I'm done they take the box & I take the key. If I'm carrying IWB I usually pull the entire holster & transfer it while holstered. If I'm wearing a belt slide holster I simply remove the gun from the holster, just like I'd do at home, and place the gun in the box. Then I lock it, keep the key, and they store the box until I come back. The idea is that you hold the "only" key so that nobody has access to the contents while you're gone.
    Is that the one in Richland? I was thinking since my wife is going to college, I might go watch some litegation trials at the courthouse on my days off.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .45ACPaddy View Post
    I'd just take off the whole holster.
    Yep, same.


    Besides, "brandishing" is generally an action in conjunction with an intent. I don't think there is a court in the land that would call taking a pistol directly from holster to lock box "brandishing". Just remember to keep your booger hook off the bang lever.
    Last edited by FMCDH; 09-03-2011 at 05:01 PM.

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    Regular Member cbpeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Is that the one in Richland? I was thinking since my wife is going to college, I might go watch some litegation trials at the courthouse on my days off.
    No. The Franklin County Courthouse is in Pasco. Kennewick & Richland are both in Benton County, and the Benton County Courthouse is in Kennewick. There is a Federal Courthouse in Richland.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    ...so I fingered I'd ask.
    It's all about the finger. Where you put it, so to speak.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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  23. #23
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbpeck View Post
    No. The Franklin County Courthouse is in Pasco. Kennewick & Richland are both in Benton County, and the Benton County Courthouse is in Kennewick. There is a Federal Courthouse in Richland.
    Have you carried in the courthouse in Richland? Just wondering if they have lockboxes?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member cbpeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Have you carried in the courthouse in Richland? Just wondering if they have lockboxes?
    Nope. I've never had a reason to visit that courthouse, so I can't say if they have lockboxes.

  25. #25
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbpeck View Post
    Nope. I've never had a reason to visit that courthouse, so I can't say if they have lockboxes.
    It is a federal building so I gues I have some research to do on their website and in the RCW's.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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