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Thread: Shots Fired in Apartment Complex Parking Lot

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Shots Fired in Apartment Complex Parking Lot

    Article.

    I open carry because I live in one of the many apartment complexes around town, and this happens all too often. If someone fires shots at me, being armed allows me to fire back.

    Except I don't miss...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Used to live in apartment complexes like that. Unarmed. I don't miss it at all.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Lived and worked in a complex like that in florida. Had a gun, and a pitbull. Luckily while I was working we were allowed to have our guns on us because we had gators as we were less than a mile from where a large herd, pod , or whatever you call gators, lived. Only problem I had with one of the wanna be thugs was taken care of by my dog before i could get to my gun. Also was living in county and not city, so city one bite dog law didn't apply.

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    I lived in a place like that here in Los Angeles.....I moved...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Since I've moved in, I've learned many folks here carry, though only three (known) OC.

    Hell, even some of the apartment staff carry. Maybe that's why it's nice and quiet here while my other place was party central.

    I do recall B. Clinton's inaugural ball being one of the most raucous ones, ever.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Operator_223's Avatar
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    Apartment Crime and OC / CC

    I live in a large apartment complex in the New Orleans area. About a year ago the apt. managers went wild with section 8 welfare voucher tenants. It has been hell ever since. The cops are here at least 3 nights a week, probably more that I dont notice. Apt burglaries and vehicle break-ins have exploded, there are beer cans and fast food trash all over the place and I, about once a week or so, can smell drugs being used in the area.

    I dont leave the front door without my CC pistol (Glock 21 or Kimber), and I always have it near or I am wearing it inside the apt. My job transfer is in the works and will go through in a couple months. I have needed to grip it twice in the last year and I almost drew it once on a guy who turned his pit bull loose in front of me and the dog ran straight for me. "oh he's a good dog, he dont bite nobody........." Yeah, right.

    I dont go out the door even when Im taking out the trash to the dumpster. The dumpster area is fenced and secluded from sight. I surprised people diggin the the trash more than once.

    I had a MWAG (man-with-a-gun) call this summer. "Mammmmaaaaaaaaa.......... LOOOOK HE GOTTTTAAAAAAA GUUN !!!!". Mamma called the Kenner PD via 911 and Mamma went crazy. "Nobody can just carry a gun 'round like dat !!! My Baby saw it !!!!", but the officer told her that it was perfectly legal and normal.

    Ha Ha Ha Ha.

    Cant wait to get out of this Cr**Hole, moving to western Texas where section 8 and welfare abuse is discouraged instead of actively promoted. I cant wait for OC to be legalized in TX, the way it should be, but unfortately, the state has been hi-jacked by the liberal weenies in Austin, the state capitol, like many other states suffer as well (Washington, Colorado, Oregon.....)

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    Regular Member Operator_223's Avatar
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    Oh, and about being new to OC......

    Oh, and about being new to OC or CC, ........ yes it is a little un-nerving at the begininning, as it should be. It is a grave responsibility (pun intended) that should not be taken lightly.

    Dont ever let someone con you into thinking you are nuts or whacko. IT IS YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, which means it is an in-alienable right that each legal citizen is entitled to regardless...

    I was nervous about even CC when I started. I dont hide it like most do, I just wear a level II holster on my hip, and drape a caribbean type shirt loosely over. Louisiana is an open carry state, so whether it shows or not I dont care as long as I have my permit on me.

    I started to just do that wherever I can except the usual places you cant, yeah, the breeze flaps open my shirt now and then and yeah, it prints heavy sometimes but so what.... if somebody has a problem who cares. I sure dont.

    I come to find if I act natural and confident and just look like a normal guy out doing his thing (or her thing ) I could probably put a couple pink elephants under my shirt and the general public wouldnt notice. Young kids usually notice it for some reason but again, as long as I am legal,, I dont give a hooot.

    How it's like picking up my car keys or my wallet and heading out the door. Once it is part of your routine its just like brushing your teeth.

    dont fidget, you have to at least act like it isnt there when in presence of the public. If you just got to fidget, check it with your elbow or else go to the restroom and do your business there quietly in a stall.

    but really . Idont fully conceal as I am not required to it's 50/50 OC and CC at the same time. Im not kidding, I could put a pink elephant under my shirt and almost everyone wont see it, including cops..

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    "About a year ago the apt. managers went wild with section 8 welfare voucher tenants. It has been hell ever since." THAT x 2000000000!

    Several yr.s back when I moved back to Fla. from many (way too many) yrs. in NY, I moved into an apartment complex.
    Was great, at the time I moved in, in fact I very deliberately chose the much higher-rent place than others more affordable BECAUSE they refused to do Section tenant.s
    About 1 yr. later, the management firm that ran the place sold out- and the new firm reversed-course on us. Raised OUR rents by $200, AND began accepting Section tenants. IMMEDIATE downhill turn in ALL respects.
    Lucked out and a buddy of mine had a place he was wanting to rent out - WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out in the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Operator_223 View Post
    IT IS YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
    You mean your God/nature given right protected by the U.S. Constitution, right?

    p.s.: man that phrase pisses me off..

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazek View Post
    You mean your God/nature given right protected by the U.S. Constitution, right?

    p.s.: man that phrase pisses me off..
    As for "that phrase," I assume you mean "Constitutional rights," correct?

    The only inalienable rights our Founding Fathers considered important enough to enumerate in our Declaration of Independence were the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. More are hinted at, but they didn't bother putting in speech, religion, and RKBA until the Bill of Rights because they honestly thought it was a given. It was certainly discussed in just about every township in the colonies for many years that such rights were not, and should never be on the chopping block when it came to government control. The brits did their share of arms confiscation. This tactic proved ineffective, as blacksmiths could crank out black powder arms faster than the Brits could confiscate them or ship their own. Plus, if your buddy died, you never left their rifle on the battlefield if you could possibly avoid it.

    In the six years since the end of the Revolutionary War, however, they noticed a number of efforts to standardize a religion, or at least, create a list of "approved" religions. They also noticed serious efforts to curb freedom of speech as being "inappropriate," as in contrary to those in power. Finally, some folks were making noise about that now the war is over, perhaps we should lock up at least some of those arms in an armory. These and other slippery slopes against liberty responded to with our Bill of Rights, which has served to protect those rights.

    It hasn't been without attempts to circumvent it, however.

    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" sounds pretty clear to me, and I see any law which tells me that I or any other sane, law-abiding citizen cannot carry in a specific place or manner as an infringement. Such laws do not stop criminals. Such laws do not stop nut-jobs. Such laws only infringe on my right to protect myself, my loved ones, and those around me in a manner that is potentially dangerous to myself and my loved ones as it disarms law-obeying me while doing nothing to disarm law-breaking criminals and crazies.

    Bottom line, they didn't think they'd need a Bill of Rights, or they'd have included those first ten amendments into the original Constitution. As to which of our rights are given by God, and not some piece of paper penned by man, I'd have to say "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" come pretty close, and I would agree the right to be secure in one's person is merely a logical extension of liberty, and therefore, it too, is a natural right from our Creator.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Operator_223,

    "Cant wait to get out of this Cr**Hole, moving to western Texas where section 8 and welfare abuse is discouraged instead of actively promoted." -- Operator_223

    I don't know where you got that idea but it isn't anywhere near correct. At least, that is, by "western Texas" you mean the largest city out there (about 1 Million+ by now): El Paso. If so, there's PLENTY of welfare mentality and "generational welfare culture" there, LOTS of HUD/Secton 8 apartments...and they're the very same low-life crappy places just like you describe in LA with the same no-class/low-class slob people living in them (your neighbors)...except they usually speak Spanish instead of Ebonics. Same trashed-out grounds, grafitti on walls, unsupervised kids everywhere, people sitting on your car, beer cans, syringes (watch where you or your dog walk), drugs being sold out of apartments, dumpster-divers (many of them (illegals?) come over from Mexico every day to do only that), and plenty of gangs in those HUD complexes and the barrios of El Paso. Drunks at some bar getting into an argument, one of them going to his car (or home), getting a gun and going back and shooting the other guy(s). Happens all the time.

    Welcome!

    Wherever you move, bring your gun with you...and CARRY.


    P.S. I used to live there (44 years), but finally decided to leave and look for America...still looking.

    P.P.S. There's lots more I could say (warn you about) but the above is just a quick FYI to you...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 11-30-2011 at 12:31 PM.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    If someone fires shots at me, being armed allows me to fire back.

    Except I don't miss...
    Just curious, but how many times have you shot at another human being who's shooting at you? I'm just wondering If your confidence that you don't miss comes from punching holes in paper targets or if it comes from punching holes in another human. I would like to think I train and shoot more than a common criminal, but since I've never put my training up against a living target who's shooting back at me, it would be pretty foolish to claim I don't miss.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    If someone fires shots at me, being armed allows me to fire back.

    Except I don't miss...
    Just curious, but how many times have you shot at another human being who's shooting at you? I'm just wondering If your confidence that you don't miss comes from punching holes in paper targets or if it comes from punching holes in another human. I would like to think I train and shoot more than a common criminal, but since I've never put my training up against a living target who's shooting back at me, it would be pretty foolish to claim I don't miss.
    It comes from a lot of things, including training to drop upwards of twenty nuclear weapons, each with a yield of several hundred kilotons, on mother Russia. Beyond that, yes, we had firearms training in the military, and I don't recall seeing a single target that looked like a target. They all had a man-sized outline. Having said that, I never flew combat in B-52s, as they were drawing down from the 12 bases that existed when I joined to the 2 that existed by the time I cross-trained (my option) into C-130s. I did fly a lot of combat missions in C-130s over the years, and I was always armed, as I am today. I've never drawn, much less fired at another human being, but I've been fired upon several times while in flight, and the tent next to us took a mortar round while my crew and I were overnighting in Balad.

    I was an expert in B-52s and C-130s, an instructor, and always qualified expert on every firearm on which I qualified, including the old .38, the M-9, and the M-16.

    I'm also going through the Citizens Academy via the Colorado Springs Police Department, and tonight was our FATS night (Firearms Training Simulator), which presents a computerized real-world scenario. I found it to be very life-like! I was the only one who got to shoot twice, because it takes two shooters at a time, and we had an odd number of people. First time around, I hesitated, and the perp ducked behind a victim. I would up taking a shot at the perp. I didn't miss the perp, but I did shoot through the victim! Not exactly my idea of "success." The second time around I nailed the perp with three rounds. Turns out the instructor has the ability to dial up the "hard to kill" setting, and he did so because of some of my comments. I think he wanted to take me down a notch or two. One of the criteria was "always justify each shot," but out of habit, I wound up firing twice right off the bat, but the perp was still moving, so I shot him again. Three shots fired, three rounds hit the target, all three rounds were lethal hits.

    Beyond that, I've been in several hostile fire situations where I've kept my cool, acted very rapidly, and with sound judgement and high precision.

    So if I seem "foolish" to you for claiming that I don't miss, ok. That's your perception. I know of at least one person frequenting this thread who's a better shooter than I. I know this because I shot with him a couple of weeks ago at Whispering Pines. If I had to standardize my score against his given the type of shooting we were doing, I'd assess him a 93% with me earning an 87%. It was very difficult, and timed - an eye-opener for us both. I may be a little quicker, but he's definitely more accurate, probably because he takes more time to aim, and probably because he's shot many more thousands of rounds in competitive shooting than I have. Another friend of mine shot competitively in the Olympics -- let's just say I'm WAY outclassed by him!

    Getting back to your point, if someone's shooting at me and I can take cover, I will. It's not so much that I don't miss as it is that I won't miss, particularly in a crowd. If we're in the middle of nowhere, I'll send lead downrange as fast as I can, but if we're in a crowded restaurant, I'm not going to risk hitting a bystander behind the perp, unless the perp himself is spraying wildly and stopping him right now supersedes a clean shot.

    Interestingly, tonight we also went through the factors involved in shooting situations, and they include:
    - level of light
    - number of people
    - type of weapon
    - officer/subject (size/strength/capability of each)
    - type of call (domestic disturbance, bar fight, etc.)
    - priority of life

    The last had it's own list:
    - hostage
    - victim
    - witness
    - fellow officer
    - self
    - suspect

    Even then, there's a Risk/Benefit analysis going on all the time. Although a shooting may be justified, it may not be necessary. Depends on the situation.

    What I learned from tonight's class, of which I barely touched on with the above, is that these situations can be very complex. However, one thing our instructor hammered home quite well is this:
    Observation - about all we can rationally discern of another person are their physical characteristics - height, weight, clothing, color, etc. But observation often leads to judgement, which involves drawing conclusions, and if the conclusions are wrong, then you're own resulting actions are likely to be wrong.

    Instead, he emphasized behavior, as this is what determines what's actually happening. Everyone at a scene is a potential suspect, a potential victim, a potential eyewitness, and a potential bystander until the facts say otherwise. Is a potential suspect wielding a knife? Are they doing so because they're intending to harm their spouse, or because they're in fear of their spouse harming them? Wielding a knife isn't itself articulable justification for a shooting. If the knife wielder holds it in a menacing way AND advances towards a potential suspect...

    Behavior is everything.

    I'm learning quite a lot in these classes, partly because I'm so curious! I think I'll start that thread...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    It's not so much that I don't miss as it is that I won't miss,
    I love how you said this. I completely agree. There's too much at stake to miss, whether it be your own life, or the life of a bystander.

    I know lots of people who claim the "I will know exactly what to do when I need to do it, and I'll do it perfectly." The fact is, you can't know. BUT you can take steps to increase the likelihood of you doing the correct action, such as the simulator you described. I think high-stress training is something every gun owner should go through. Not only does it test your ability to react and think under pressure with adrenaline, but I see it as a test of how well you know your own limits and how well you know your firearm. If you can't reload or clear a jam or such while focusing on keeping your brains intact, you don't know your weapon well enough in my opinion.

    On a side note, Hello!

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