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Who plans on using in the MD Training when applying for their permit ?

paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Firearms Iinstuctor said:
I have have lots of training certs I could use. I plan on only sending one.

If you need your training brought out in court you well get your chance what the state holds well not make a differants.

I hope they take the online course and issue permits from it. If they don't several years from now if Paul wins he'll get his permit. Court actions can take a long time and the state is using others peoples money.

Good luck Paul may you win.

We might have consitutional carry be for it is settled.
Click to expand...

Thanks! It should be faster than that.

(14m) APPEALS TO THE CIRCUIT COURT. (a) An indi-vidual aggrieved by any action by the department deny-
ing an application for, or suspending or revoking, a
license under this section, may appeal directly to the cir-
cuit court of the county in which the individual resides
without regard to whether the individual has sought
review under the process established in sub. (14g).
(b) To begin an appeal under this subsection, the
aggrieved individual shall file a petition for review with
the clerk of the applicable circuit court within 30 days of
receiving notice of denial of an application for a license
or of suspension or revocation of a license. The petition
shall state the substance of the department’s action from
which the individual is appealing and the grounds upon
which the individual believes the department’s action to
be improper. The petition may include a copy of any
records or documents that are relevant to the grounds
upon which the individual believes the department’s
action to be improper.
(c) A copy of the petition shall be served upon the
department either personally or by registered or certified
mail within 5 days after the individual files his or her peti-
tion under par. (b).
(d) The department shall file an answer within 15
days after being served with the petition under par. (c).
The answer shall include a brief statement of the actions
taken by the department. The department shall include
with the answer when filed a copy of any documents or
records on which the department based its action.
(e) The court shall review the petition, the answer,
and any records or documents submitted with the petition
or the answer. The review under this paragraph shall be
conducted by the court without a jury but the court may
schedule a hearing and take testimony.
(f) The court shall reverse the department’s action if
the court finds any of the following:
1. That the department failed to follow any proce-
dure, or take any action, prescribed under this section.
2. That the department erroneously interpreted a pro-
vision of law and a correct interpretation compels a dif-
ferent action.
3. That the department’s action depends on a finding
of fact that is not supported by substantial evidence in the
record.
4. a. If the appeal is regarding a denial, that the denial
was based on factors other than the factors under sub. (3).
b. If the appeal is regarding a suspension or revoca-
tion, that the suspension or revocation was based on crite-
ria other than those under sub. (14) (a) or (am).
(g) 1. The court’s decision shall provide whatever
relief is appropriate regardless of the original form of the
petition.
2. If the court reverses the department’s action, the
court may order the department to pay the aggrieved indi-
vidual all court costs and reasonable attorney fees.
Click to expand...
 
F

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,431
Location
northern wis
This Paul is where you could run into the stone walling.

The review under this paragraph shall be
conducted by the court without a jury but the court may
schedule a hearing and take testimony.

Busy courts could set this months down the road. delaying is one of the states favorite tactic.
 
MKEgal

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Da Po-lock said:
...with some of the questionable training being sold by out-of-state trainers
Click to expand...
Here's one I came across this morning: a company in MN offering online WI classes.
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/store/index_cart.php?crn=269&rn=929&action=show_detail
Interesting comments from students, pointing out that in rural areas their class options are severely limited.

I think their reasoning as to why their course should be accepted is faulty, relying on the "state organization that certifies firearms instructors" clause
rather than the "course taught by an instructor certified by a state or national organization that certifies firearms instructors" clause.
They're not a state organization, they're a company made of NRA instructors & training counselors.

And of course, DOJ is claiming they'll somehow know if a class is taught online.
Wonder if the certificates are written differently?
Does MD even have an in-person option, & do their certs print out looking different?

Firearms Iinstuctor said:
The review under this paragraph shall be conducted by the court without a jury but the court may schedule a hearing and take testimony.
Busy courts could set this months down the road. delaying is one of the states favorite tactic.
Click to expand...
The law is very clear about the required time limits for performing each step.
It's even crossed my mind that someone should keep a copy of their application, with the receipt for the certified letter showing when they mailed it, & if DOJ fails to meet the 45 (or 21) day deadline, carry anyway.
Or while the refusal is in appeal, carry anyway.
You've got proof that you've tried to comply with the law, & the gov't is restricting your ability to do so.
Not sure it's the brightest idea in the world, but someone will try it.
 
Last edited:
N

nevinsb

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
145
Location
NY
I've qualified on AT4, M4, Mk-19, M203, 249, M9, and M2, so I think I'm good.
 
Zeus

Zeus

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
194
Location
Neenah
It won't be my first choice but I am bringing it with me just in case along with my FL and Utah permits, hunters safety card and DD214. Never can have too many papers on you when you have to visit communist territory :uhoh:
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Zeus said:
It won't be my first choice but I am bringing it with me just in case along with my FL and Utah permits, hunters safety card and DD214. Never can have too many papers on you when you have to visit communist territory :uhoh:
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean. While they will accept drop-offs of applications, they won't actually look at it and make decisions instantly. So, photocopy one piece you believe will meet the requirements (in your case either your DD214, FL or UT permits) and don't bother sending anything else.

I am only sending my MD card because I am trying to make a point. If I wanted to be assured of issuance, I would send my NRA certificate or my UT permit (which should show up by 11/1).
 
Zeus

Zeus

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
194
Location
Neenah
Thanks Paul. I was under the impression that we had to show proof of training on site to get an application.
 
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