Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: Taxpayer Funded "Education" Pamphlet

  1. #1
    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    191

    Taxpayer Funded "Education" Pamphlet

    I stopped by the Lynchburg Police Department today to speak with an officer. (details on that later)

    I was waiting in the public lobby and noticed a pamphlet titled "What would you do if the LPD stopped you?"

    I decided to take it.

    Noticed on the first side, middle row, second down:
    "Do not carry any weapons (real or otherwise)
    Do not joke about having a weapon with you"

    Apparently we are paying for this pamphlet to "Educate" people not to exercise their rights.

    Pretty sad....

    First side: http://jaecomputing.com/Public/LPD_W...uld_You_Do.jpg
    Second side: http://jaecomputing.com/Public/LPD_W...d_You_Do_2.jpg


    On a side note:
    I also asked the officer in the lobby of the police station what the rules on carrying in the public lobby was. He confirmed it was a public space, however, because the court house is in the same building on the second floor, you can not carry a gun. He said to, "leave it home". I think it is funny that they had no issue with my knife, however, a gun would be too much. Don't they have to have a metal detector at the entrance to a courthouse?
    Last edited by Jero1987; 09-01-2011 at 07:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Is this a joke?

    Are they serious? Really?

    "Don't make any sudden movements" ... or what, they shoot first and ask questions later?

    I guess many cops get hung up on "furtive movements."

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Jero1987 View Post

    On a side note:
    I also asked the officer in the lobby of the police station what the rules on carrying in the public lobby was. He confirmed it was a public space, however, because the court house is in the same building on the second floor, you can not carry a gun. He said to, "leave it home". I think it is funny that they had no issue with my knife, however, a gun would be too much. Don't they have to have a metal detector at the entrance to a courthouse?
    VCDL is fighting this battle in Martinsville now. Just because part of a building houses courts does not make the entire building a courthouse. The officer who told you that was mistaken.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    VCDL is fighting this battle in Martinsville now. Just because part of a building houses courts does not make the entire building a courthouse. The officer who told you that was mistaken.
    He may be mistaken, but that is how they are enforcing it in Lynchburg. Maybe I need to let mr PVC know...

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    VaBch
    Posts
    44

    From their website:

    Their website basically quotes the same stuff except for - "Do not illegally carry weapons"

    http://www.lynchburgva.gov/Index.aspx?page=3989

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    I would suggest that VCDL be informed of both these issues, the "courthouse in the building" as well as the brochure and website, which seem to me to be a clear violation of 15.2-915.

    Despite the disclaimer, any publication from a police office would seem to me to carry enough weight to influence an average person's behavior. Under 15.2-915, they are not allowed to restrict the carry of any handgun, legal or illegal. They can certainly arrest someone if they are found to be violating any state law, including the carry of an illegal handgun, but the local folks cannot regulate it on their own.

    It would be interesting to see if their legal folks vetted the brochure, which in my uninformed opinion, could easily be interpreted to locally prohibit carry of any weapons.

    I'm probably wrong in my conclusions, perhaps User can weigh in. But I'm sure these folks need some ed-u-ma-catin' of some sort.

    TFred

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Jero1987 View Post
    I stopped by the Lynchburg Police Department today to speak with an officer. (details on that later)
    I added the pamphlet to my e-mail to the Chief.. He said he will write me back tomorrow.

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Jero1987 View Post
    He may be mistaken, but that is how they are enforcing it in Lynchburg. Maybe I need to let mr PVC know...
    While contacting VCDL is always a Good Thing(TM), we all need to remember that we can do this stuff on our own, and that we ought to be doing it on our own until we need help. Sending a letter to the Chief of Police and the City Attorney, informing them of the existing Court of Appeals decision and the conflict between that case law and their "rule" is not that hard to do. Following up after a week if no answer is received is not difficult.

    This is not a rant directed at the OP - it's intended as a reminder that we all can be involved in the struggle, and that it is not difficult to achieve results. Heck, even Ed can. (Where's that big, sloppy kiss smiley when you need it? Love ya, Ed.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I would suggest that VCDL be informed of both these issues
    They have been.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    While contacting VCDL is always a Good Thing(TM), we all need to remember that we can do this stuff on our own, and that we ought to be doing it on our own until we need help. Sending a letter to the Chief of Police and the City Attorney, informing them of the existing Court of Appeals decision and the conflict between that case law and their "rule" is not that hard to do. Following up after a week if no answer is received is not difficult.

    This is not a rant directed at the OP - it's intended as a reminder that we all can be involved in the struggle, and that it is not difficult to achieve results. Heck, even Ed can. (Where's that big, sloppy kiss smiley when you need it? Love ya, Ed.)

    stay safe.
    Agreed.

    A question I posed in another thread was 'should VCDL be copied on that correspondence?' It seems like it might be a good idea to keep them updated on the progress of issues that are being worked on by an individual (instead of the individual contacting them and saying 'here's a problem... fix it for me'.... ).

    Thoughts?

    Btw, will a breakfast thread appear for tomorrow morning?

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    When I worked the issue with one of the Charlottesville area county fairs I kept VCDL President on copy. I didn't get any change in policy, but the word went out about the fair's no-gun stance in the next VCDL alert. I can't recall if they've been on copy for other things I've involved myself in, but those were mostly cured without any extra assistance necessary. Remember, we the membership of VCDL are the motive force.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    191
    Ed shot an email to the chief faster than I could think and he got the following response:
    Mr. Levine -- I am able to address your second inquiry now, so I will
    respond to you on that first.

    The LPD informational brochure (titled What Would You Do if the Police
    Stopped You?) that you attached to your second inquiry is shown below as
    Attachment 1. I was surprised to see the wording you marked within that
    brochure, as that wording was the first thing that I myself corrected,
    years ago, while reviewing an early draft of the brochure during its
    development. The What Would You Do if the Police Stopped You?brochure that
    the LPD distributes and provides on our website (Attachment 2) is the May
    2007 brochure printing that is worded as follows: Do not illegally carry
    weapons (real or otherwise). Do not joke about having a weapon with you.
    The May 2007 brochure (Attachment 2) has been distributed since that date.
    I did not see a date on the (Attachment 1) brochure that you sent me, and
    at this time I do not know when or by what means that brochure version
    became available to the public. The wording you marked within the
    Attachment 1 brochure does not accurately reflect the Lynchburg Police
    Department's advice to citizens, and is not the advice that the LPD is
    providing to citizens. I will be glad to provide printed copies or
    additional PDF copies of the current LPD brochure to anyone requesting this
    information. Again, this brochure is also available through the LPD
    website (at www.lynchburgpolice.org).


    (See attached file: Attachment 1.jpg) (See attached file: Attachment 2
    (What Would You Do if the Police Stopped You 5-2007).pdf)


    Parks H. Snead
    Chief of Police

    434-455-6045 (office)
    434-845-3752 (fax)

    Mr. Levine -- I appreciate your providing that information. Obviously a
    mixup, and I apologize for that. I will collect the inaccurate forms
    myself, and will replace them with the correct/current version ones.


    Parks H. Snead
    Chief of Police


    Kudos to Ed for his quick action!

    James

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Thanks for the info Jero. Now are you ever going to share your story about having your gun removed and your numbers run while calmly stopped for a minor traffic violation or not? I'm waiting to hear Chief Sneads take on the legality of departmental policy that requires officers to seize all firearms and inspect them as stolen property.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Thanks for the info Jero. Now are you ever going to share your story about having your gun removed and your numbers run while calmly stopped for a minor traffic violation or not? I'm waiting to hear Chief Sneads take on the legality of departmental policy that requires officers to seize all firearms and inspect them as stolen property.
    lol It is on my list for this weekend... Patience, Patience, Patience...

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Well since you're not going to tell us now, how about at least showing a little love to the Lynchburg OC dinner thread?

  16. #16
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,585
    Are these pamphlets also available for tourists at the Welcome & Information Center? It seems only reasonable that tourists shouldn't be burdened with having to go to the police station to get one.

    Do these pamphlets include a Miranda Warning?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Never Never Land
    Posts
    514
    Some problems I see (in red)
    The entire thing
    As any citizen of the state of Virginia, or United States of America for that matter, you may at some point find yourself on the receiving end of a police officer’s inquiry. This is no time to panic, as an officer wanting to talk to you presumes no guilt or infraction on your part. There are many reasons for a police officer to initiate contact with a civilian, only a few of which could spell certain trouble. A police officer will only detain you for the short time necessary to determine whether or not you are in fact the person in question. Once he or she has concluded that you are not, the officer will thank you for your time and return to his regular duty. Among the most likely reasons for one to be stopped on the street would be wearing similar clothing or possessing similar features to the description of a suspect, traveling in the nearby vicinity of a recent crime scene, suspicious behavior, unlawful presence or the request of another concerned individual. If an officer approaches you, here are the important things to remember…
    • Avoid sudden movements – As a rule of thumb, it’s best to inform an officer before reaching for any possession on your person. Bear in mind, police officers often find themselves in potentially hazardous situations and sudden movements could be misconstrued as an intent to harm (i.e. reaching for a weapon).
    • Save jokes for later – Anything you say may be taken literally. Joking about being armed, committing a crime or intending to commit a crime is a serious matter, as your tone or sense of humor may not be detectable to an officer on the job.
    • No touching – Keep a distance of an at least a full arms length unless instructed otherwise. Policemen carry weapons not intended for use by citizens. A move towards an officer or his or her weapon could be construed as an act of aggression.
    • Follow directions – First and foremost, comply with the request of an officer. If you have any questions, act first and ask later. Avoiding simple questions or refusing to heed to an order will only make the process last longer and less pleasant.
    • Comments are closed.
    Last edited by All American Nightmare; 09-03-2011 at 12:16 AM.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    should VCDL be copied on that correspondence?' It seems like it might be a good idea to keep them updated on the progress of issues that are being worked on by an individual
    They were copied on it. Typically when an issue comes to VCDL an executive member takes the lead on an issue and reports back. An EM may take the lead based on his/her area of knowledge or local jurisdiction or time to work the issue or a combination of any.

    VCDL has no "staff".. the PEOPLE of the VCDL, ARE the "VCDL"

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  19. #19
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by All American Nightmare View Post
    • No touching Keep a distance of an at least a full arms length unless instructed otherwise. Policemen carry weapons not intended for use by citizens. A move towards an officer or his or her weapon could be construed as an act of aggression.
    Now, if only officers were required to follow these rules.

    While I have never once had hands placed on me except when I was actually being arrested (long story... well, stories) I know there have been untold instances of officers committing ASSAULT in the name of the ol' "officer safety" canard. Tyranny is defined as that which is unlawful for the citizenry yet lawful for the government.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    They were copied on it. Typically when an issue comes to VCDL an executive member takes the lead on an issue and reports back. An EM may take the lead based on his/her area of knowledge or local jurisdiction or time to work the issue or a combination of any.

    VCDL has no "staff".. the PEOPLE of the VCDL, ARE the "VCDL"

    Ed
    Thanks Ed. (Although I feel like we are playing the old Abbot & Costello 'Who's on First'..... )

    Let me put it this way, if I personally send a letter to a local city/county requesting that they correct/update their gun laws to come into compliance with state law... does anyone higher up the 'VCDL' food chain have any interest in being copied on that letter? If so, what is the email address that I should use for that copy?

  21. #21
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Philip Van Cleeve

    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    For those that do not make the connection, Philip is the president of VCDL.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    Got it, thanks. I knew about Phillip but wasn't sure if he was involved with it all, or if other EM's took care of some of it.

    Thanks for the replies....

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Got it, thanks. I knew about Phillip but wasn't sure if he was involved with it all, or if other EM's took care of some of it.

    Thanks for the replies....
    At times Phil may already have a handle on the occurrence and be involved with the solution. Frequently, he will post to the EM mail list looking for a volunteer to follow through and update us with the results.

    Many hands do make light work - that is why it is sooo good when not just a problem is reported, but when a member also gets into the trenches and provides a documented solution - takes action themselves.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    At times Phil may already have a handle on the occurrence and be involved with the solution. Frequently, he will post to the EM mail list looking for a volunteer to follow through and update us with the results.

    Many hands do make light work - that is why it is sooo good when not just a problem is reported, but when a member also gets into the trenches and provides a documented solution - takes action themselves.
    I agree. I'm willing to take some action (and have in a couple instances now...), but just wanted to see if anyone else wanted to be copied on it so they were 'in the loop' as well. Otherwise, you have a bunch of proverbial soldiers running around in the trenches, with no 'big picture' plan, and nobody knows exactly what each other is doing...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •