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Thread: Supressors OKed by AG

  1. #1
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    Supressors OKed by AG

    Great! Now we dont have to lose our hearing in SD. When I can afford one, I dont have a problem OCing it either.

    http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10339.htm

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Best Post you have made in a while...

    Thanks for posting it!

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Fantastic! Not sure if i'll get one but having the right to own one restored is a good step. Now if that jerk off would just quit attacking the voter approved medical marijuana initiative I could fully support him.

    edit- wonder what the odds of getting sbr & sbs approved is?
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 09-02-2011 at 04:59 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    One thing at a time guys. At least there is hope.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    $200 just for the tax is pretty spendy.
    Last edited by ElectricianLU58; 09-02-2011 at 06:27 PM.

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    Money grab.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...eral_says.html

    First comment- "Oh great. We're going to have the wild west in our streets with no noise."
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 09-02-2011 at 08:33 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...eral_says.html

    First comment- "Oh great. We're going to have the wild west in our streets with no noise."
    Uhm.. wouldn't that make it the quite west, not the wild west...silly people
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Bout damn time. I haven't read it in a while, but I seem to recall that Mike Cox's opinion pretty well should have already done this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    $200 just for the tax is pretty spendy.
    If that's your initial reaction to the registered NFA world, you should probably leave it at that and be satisfied with non NFA items, because 200 dollars and a 3 plus month wait are considered the smaller hurdles. You don't need registered NFA weapons, no one does really, and thus the market isn't very large. It's an arbitrarily government modified hobby which is either worth it to you or it isn't.
    Last edited by Michigander; 09-02-2011 at 10:15 PM.
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    So how soon does this take effect and what does one have to do to get one?

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 09-02-2011 at 10:37 PM.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Bout damn time. I haven't read it in a while, but I seem to recall that Mike Cox's opinion pretty well should have already done this.



    If that's your initial reaction to the registered NFA world, you should probably leave it at that and be satisfied with non NFA items, because 200 dollars and a 3 plus month wait are considered the smaller hurdles. You don't need registered NFA weapons, no one does really, and thus the market isn't very large. It's an arbitrarily government modified hobby which is either worth it to you or it isn't.
    i just read a little about the NFA. to me, the most interesting part is that the transfer tax has been consistent since written. if a $200 tax seems spendy to me, it must have seemed insanely expensive in 1934 (comparable to $3,320.89 today).

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    We'd all do well to remember AGOs aren't legally binding.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I wonder if a silencer could be considered to be a "component" of a pistol or firearm?

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms. Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
    Bronson
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    I would say they are. Since they are designed specifically for them, often specifically for a certain make of pistol.

    Like holsters, a city might attempt to ban holsters claiming that they are not preempted from doing so, causing a backdoor ban on handguns, but I doubt it would fly.

  19. #19
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I wonder if a silencer could be considered to be a "component" of a pistol or firearm?

    Bronson
    c. Firearm. The term “firearm” means: (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in 18 U.S.C. 5845(e); (6) a machinegun; (7) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (8) a destructive device.
    Definitions on page 3:

    Making Your Own: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf

    Buying One: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    We'd all do well to remember AGOs aren't legally binding.
    This issue is much more complex.

    We could have them before according to the law but because there was no opinion on the "Tax Stamp" being a "License" the BATFE wouldn't approve form1's or form4's and without one of them it was illegal.

    All this long drawn out opinion really says is that the tax stamp is the license (just like the tax stamp for machine guns).

    The AG didn't make them legal. They were always legal, with a license. All he did was define what a license is.

    There will be no legal issues with suppressors just like there are none with machine guns, as long as you have the tax stamp(license).
    Last edited by dougwg; 09-03-2011 at 11:17 AM. Reason: edit: correction, change form2 to form4

  21. #21
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    This issue is much more complex.

    We could have them before according to the law but because there was no opinion on the "Tax Stamp" being a "License" the BATFE wouldn't approve form1's or form2's and without one of them it was illegal.

    All this long drawn out opinion really says is that the tax stamp is the license (just like the tax stamp for machine guns).

    The AG didn't make them legal. They were always legal, with a license. All he did was define what a license is.

    There will be no legal issues with suppressors just like there are none with machine guns, as long as you have the tax stamp(license).
    Good information and analysis!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Definitions on page 3:
    That is the Feds. definition but I believe for a MI preemption issue the MI definitions would be the pertinent ones.

    123.1102

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    123.1101 Definitions.

    Sec. 1.
    As used in this act:

    (a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.

    (b) “Pistol” means that term as defined in section 222 of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being section 750.222 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    750.222

    (d) “Firearm” means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.
    (e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.
    So it looks, to me, that unless we can swing the "component of pistols or other firearms" angle suppressors may not be covered under MI preemption.

    I don't personally feel this way as I think it's pretty self-evident that the State occupies the field when it comes to regulating firearm/component possession. But I also thought it was pretty self-evident that an authority was covered under preemption and apparently at least one judge disagrees with me.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  23. #23
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    Glad you brought this up.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i voted 5 stars for this thread. nice find.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    if a $200 tax seems spendy to me, it must have seemed insanely expensive in 1934 (comparable to $3,320.89 today).
    Now imagine that during the great depression. We're basically in a depression now, but 200 bucks is still tiny compared to 3 grand in an even worse economy.

    Just another reason to hate FDR and how he screwed us.
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