View Poll Results: What does your bugout/survival plan look like?

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  • None - I'm minimally stocked and will rely on

    3 9.68%
  • Survive in place - I'm urban/suburban but well-stocked.

    12 38.71%
  • Survive in place - I'm rural and can live off the land around me.

    11 35.48%
  • Suvive in place - I'm on a farm and can live off the crops and/or livestock.

    2 6.45%
  • Head for the hills - I'll live off the land there.

    3 9.68%
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Thread: Bugout Plans and Survival

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Bugout Plans and Survival

    Some have said the end is near. Then again, someone or another is always saying the end is near, and in a true Biblical apocalypse, it's better to be caught up in the rapture than suffer 3.5 yrs of "wtf..." followed by 3.5 years of "omg!" Thus, I'm not sure of the value of an apocolyptic vision when it comes to survival plans, unless one either isn't a believer or one subscribes to one of the other flavors of the end times.

    Regardless, I do find value in looking at various survival plans for other reasons, such as inadvertent or deliberate nuclear war, natural disaster, becoming stranded while travelling cross country, etc. Thus, I find it prudent to always have a "go bag" loaded with what one needs to survive for 6 months (minus the food and water). For years my "go bag" has been my backpack, loaded with the bare minimum of equipment I feel is necessary for wilderness survival.

    I've always called it my "bugout bag," but I realized this afternoon that I hadn't developed a sound, well-developed bugout plan! This is what brought the idea of this thread to fruition.

    I went through two USAF survival course in 1990. I did a little bit of camping and backpacking before then, but the course really opened my eyes to what's really important, and what's really not important. The instructors are absolute experts. After their initial training, same as ours, they get the distinct pleasure of months of intense training in all environments, including jungle, forest, desert, arctic, and oceanic. Most of what they taught was followed with a personal anecdote about why what they're teaching us is the right stuff. They've been there. They've done that. In addition, they were thoroughly briefed on the adventures of just about every military and civilian survival experience on the books, both those which ended in success, as well as those which ended in failure. They knew the why behind both success and failure, and their sole purpose was to ensure we did, as well.

    I'll get into the details in a subsequent post, but let me tell you a bit about the courses I went through:

    The first was the standard survival course, where they taught us the basics of living in the wilderness with nothing on us but boots and a flight suit. We did most things with a pocket knife, but we were also taught how to get by without one. They focused on basic needs, such as first aid, quick to permanent all-weather shelters, safely procuring water, food, and clothing, and land navigation. They also covered various hazards, including environmental, water/food, vegetable, animal, and psychological.

    The course took 8 hrs a day, plus an hour or two of homework in the evening, except the week in the field, which was 16 hrs/day (yes, we did sleep).

    The second course was water survival, which all aviators heading towards ejection seat aircraft get, and that was much shorter, about a week. It focused mainly on using various water-specific survival gear, including personal and group life rafts and the equipment found aboard them, but it also went into the water, food, and shelter opportunities and hazards present on the high seas, including oceanic flora and fauna (plants and animals). As always, we practiced for real, including being airdropped into the water training environment of Miami's Biscayne Bay, the world's largest breeding ground for hammerhead sharks. At least that's what they told us... I did see two of them during our training. It was only a little daunting, as we knew we could always grab onto those nice handles on either side of their craniums and catch a ride back to shore.

    Yeah....

    So why did I start this thread?

    I'd like to talk about some serious, but realistic SHTF-types of survival situations, and throw the discussion open for what other people think, as I know most of you have a lot of opinions.

    Over the course of however long people remain interested, I'll cover the following topics:

    Survival by Location:
    - Forest
    - Desert
    - Urban
    - Jungle
    - Arctic

    Survival by Primary Threat:
    - Nuclear
    - Biological
    - Chemical
    - Invasion
    - Civil Unrest

    As we work through this, I invite serious commentary, particular that which discusses some of the specifics.

    Well, that's all for now, except for a simple poll.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Waterproof Laser Paper

    I've got a decent amount of local information available on my computer, but printing it out would mean the paper would suffer the ravages of nature. I first stumbled across some waterproof copier paper way back in the mid-1980s, and still have a couple of hiking maps I copied to the stuff back then.

    After this afternoon's "awakening," I found this website, which sells several kinds of waterproof laser printer paper. I think it'll take inkjet, as well, but unless your inks are themselves waterproof... Laser toner is actually microscopic beads of polymer infused with carbon. The printer's fuser literally melts them to the paper.

    So, whether it's a list of phone numbers and addresses, Lat/Lon coordinates of various pre-determined shelters and food/water caches, or B&W copies of local topos, if you print them on waterproof paper, you're more likely to find them in good condition when you need them the most.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  3. #3
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Largely depends on the circumstances. Can't answer the poll.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  4. #4
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    "Shelter in Place" or "Head to the country house" all depends on the circumstances.
    Both are stocked with the 'esentials', and my vehicle can make the 160 mile trip without refueling even if traffic is bad. (>500 on a tank)
    Last edited by Shovelhead; 09-02-2011 at 07:52 PM.
    Assault Weapon (N) Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians..

  5. #5
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    I'm with rodbender on this one. I'm not particularly well off, so my disaster preparedness, as far as food supplies, ranges from a couple of weeks to a couple of days depending on how close I am to pay day.

    Ammo supplies are pretty short-especially for my pistol and rifle. Off grid energy is low, mostly consisting of propane with a grill and enough AA batteries to power my LED flashlights for months.

    If I HAD to, I could survive at home for the lengths of time stated provided I didn't have to do much shooting. Otherwise I could bug out to one of several locations. My parents and grandparents are 5 and 20 minutes away respectively, and have plenty of food and propane (and I think a genny at the grandparents'), but no ammo. My other grandparent's are also 20 minutes away, have food, and tons of weapons and ammo-with plenty of powder and bullets to make much more. So if it came down to it, I'd probably be sharing time between my grandparents' houses, which are just down the road from each other, and pretty rural.

    The great thing about these locations is that they all have off grid heating, at least a modest supply of ammo, and are rural. One other option I have is to go to my sister's house. She and her husband have plenty of food, a small supply of of ammo, and a wood fired stove. The only problem with their location is that they're urban, but 20 minutes in the opposite direction of my other options. So I have plenty of options for bug out locations, and could choose one over the other if the disaster is localized to one location.

    So yeah, most of my plans include bugging out to another location depending upon the type of disaster. My primary choice is hunkering down at home as long as I can, depending on the severity of the situation. It's a small place and not easily defensible, so the level of violence definitely plays a factor.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

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  6. #6
    Regular Member Malcolm's Avatar
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    Interesting post.

    I think the poll idea might not be a good idea. In my experience people that that take their survival plans to heart generally stay off the radar and don't volunteer information. The armchair elitists are probably upset by the reminder of that kind of poll. They aren't prepared. My idea is all about the network. Creating a bug-out spot and getting people in on it. I don't suscribe to the lone-wolf idea. Are you going to drill and fill your own teeth? A network with your doctor, carpenter, electrician and more. give them a binder with information pertaining to your plan. If a W.R.O.L. situation presents itself warranting 'bugging out' You better plan for the long haul. If it does become that serious, I say the lone-wolf is going to be your biggest problem. The guy with a Remington and alot of .30-30 ammo. He'll hit you when you stop to fix a flat.
    You'll never see it coming. As for living like rambo. Why, with a little help from your friends you can maintain a very decent standard of living off the beaten path. Like finding a nice million dollar home in Montana with livestock and a fresh water supply. A couple solar panels and a farmer. Your in business. For everything else...Risk Assesment.

    As for chemo or bio...A few cans of bleech can offset the inevitable but it's going to be the guys with a chemo suit, bunker and a 10 yr plan that are going to have a survival percentage above %40.

    Just my two cents.
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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Ok, things are rolling!

    So far, we've got shelter in place vs group with trusted friends, acquaintances, or family. Some good comments about how being a lone wolf probably isn't the best idea, and some advice with respect to creating a detailed plan and sharing it with trusted experts in various fields.

    That's good! People are thinking and looking ahead, anticipating what might happen, and being flexible, with alternative plans.

    50% of survival is attitude. Another 30% is training, which is a strong attitude booster. The remaining 20% is a mix of smarts and luck.

    So, thinking about this, going through the motions, mentally, creating some plans on paper, reviewing them, trying to poke holes in your own plans i.e. playing "what if" are all terrific ways of refining things to the point where your chances of surviving increase dramatically.

    Another way of looking at things are by means of a S.W.O.T. analysis:

    Strengths: I've got some good survival skills. I'm pretty resourceful, good with mechanicals and construction.

    Weaknesses: I can't hike but a few miles wearing a medium pack.

    Opportunities: There's water and natural formations for shelter nearby, as well as friends and family within walking distance.

    Threats: Whether it comes from NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical), manic crowds, overzealous authorities may be one of those things we can speculate about endlessly but may never know until it comes to pass. Could be some combination of them. Regardless, we need to be ready to counter all threats, so the best way to approach it is to list them all then list ways to counter them.

    Take, for example, NBC. It's easy to seal yourself into your home or apartment. The yellow foam known as "The Right Stuff," sprayed around all windows, doors, cracks, and through-walls (pipes, electrical) will seal it up tight as a drum. But how do you breath? How would you cool things off in the summer, or heat things in the winter?

    I just purchased a Crystal Clear Shrink Film Window Kit by Duck (Walmart) for $7. It'll seal five 3'x5' windows, which covers my needs. They make a similar kit for the sliding glass door for about the same price. The only other potential leaks in/out of my apartment are via the front door and the bathroom vent. Duct tape will cover the front door, as as for the vent, well, that's my lifeline!

    You see, it's a simple matter to flip the fan around, and if the power dies, I have one that'll run on a 12V car battery, as well as a solar panel the size of Texas I can put in the window that'll provide enough juice to keep it running 24/7. In an NBC environment, it's important to maintain positive ventilation, and it's very important to filter that incoming air to HEPA or better levels behind the fan (in the suction zone). For that I'll need to extend the vent somewhat.

    Alternatively, one can seal off a room and do the same thing instead of trying to do it whole-house. Using an air/heat exchanger can help keep the heat/cool in, provided you filter the air. If you're wanting to change the inside temp towards the outside's, bypass the exchanger. Don't bypass the filter, though!

    No, a filter won't keep out gas, but it'll do a good job of minimizing fallout, aerosols, spores, and other biological pathogens.

    I'll shut up for now. More later.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    For years I was one of the Guns, Ammo and Head For The Hills crowd. Then I joined the Zombie Squad forum, read some of the threads there and realized that I was doing it all wrong. Bugging out for the woods isn't realistic in 99% of the cases and priorities should go toward other planning.
    If at all possible, Bug in. Pay off as much debt as possible. Build up a decent food and water supply of at least a month. Make sure your home is fully insured including flood insurance. And So on.
    If I have to bug out, I'm not taking my family to a patch of woods and sleep on the ground with bugs and critters crawling around. For a local event I'm leaving the area and checking into a Motel 6. I will file with my insurance company as well as any agency I can think of (Red Cross, Salvation Army, Church groups, etc...). If a regional event occurs I head out and check into a Motel 6 out of the area and again... contact my insurance agency. If I'm able I report to work. If my work is gone, I grab a local newspaper and me and the better half start looking in the Help Wanted ads for a new job.
    Nowhere in my planning do I see having to live in a tent freezing my balls off or roasting in the SE La heat. I'm not going to be sitting in woods, probably tresspassing on someone elses property, looking to shoot a rabbit for dinner and hoping the rain holds up long enough to allow me to get a decent fire going. That's all a bunch of uber-survivalist fantasy bovine feces.
    If some global level event like out of The Road occurs I doubt I'd survive long anyway based on health/medical issues. I'm not going to be walking the burned out landscape, pushing a shopping cart and armed with a revolver and 3 bullets while hiding from cannabals.
    Get past that. If a realistic survival forum, like Zombie Squad, and prepare for realistic scenerios.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    For years I was one of the Guns, Ammo and Head For The Hills crowd. Then I joined the Zombie Squad forum, read some of the threads there and realized that I was doing it all wrong. Bugging out for the woods isn't realistic in 99% of the cases and priorities should go toward other planning.
    If at all possible, Bug in. Pay off as much debt as possible. Build up a decent food and water supply of at least a month. Make sure your home is fully insured including flood insurance. And So on.
    If I have to bug out, I'm not taking my family to a patch of woods and sleep on the ground with bugs and critters crawling around. For a local event I'm leaving the area and checking into a Motel 6. I will file with my insurance company as well as any agency I can think of (Red Cross, Salvation Army, Church groups, etc...). If a regional event occurs I head out and check into a Motel 6 out of the area and again... contact my insurance agency. If I'm able I report to work. If my work is gone, I grab a local newspaper and me and the better half start looking in the Help Wanted ads for a new job.
    Nowhere in my planning do I see having to live in a tent freezing my balls off or roasting in the SE La heat. I'm not going to be sitting in woods, probably tresspassing on someone elses property, looking to shoot a rabbit for dinner and hoping the rain holds up long enough to allow me to get a decent fire going. That's all a bunch of uber-survivalist fantasy bovine feces.
    If some global level event like out of The Road occurs I doubt I'd survive long anyway based on health/medical issues. I'm not going to be walking the burned out landscape, pushing a shopping cart and armed with a revolver and 3 bullets while hiding from cannabals.
    Get past that. If a realistic survival forum, like Zombie Squad, and prepare for realistic scenerios.
    Take it easy Yale. There's benefits to bugging out to a rural area if you own and can prepare such a place. In my case I have 30 acre with a campsite with a free flowing well so that I have a clean water supply regardless whether I have power or not.

  10. #10
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    15+ years ago we had a choice to make ... stay in a large metro and look for jobs, or 'move home' and look for jobs in the rural town.

    Metro: Pros - lots of jobs, lots of amenities
    Metro: Cons - lots of people, no home ownership, sucky schools for child, away from family

    Home: Pros - rural town, decent amenities, more amenities 150 mi away at state capitol metro, rural school, small classroom, technical skills gained in metro in demand, good jobs, artesian water supply, good game/wildlife inside city limits (lol), middle of 'oil country' and wheat and cattle country, home ownership, cave shelter local
    Home: Cons - 150 mi to metro, higher cost of medical, prison located within 20 miles of town

    We moved home and have been acquiring survival materials. With a full, finished basement, I have been canning, gardening, raising meat rabbits, added genny, expanded tools and weapons/ammo and can at this time, support us 3 adults plus MIL for at least 1 year. If SHTF in a way that electricity is 'gone' it still won't affect this community as it is now a central hub for 4 windfarms, so as long as the windmills are up, this town will have power. Being in the middle of 'oil country' fuel will not be a problem for many years. There is salt available locally, too.

    If for some reason we have to leave this place, I also have the survival skills and gear to load the pickup with everything we will need to survive away for up to 6 months and a place to go that is 30 minutes away that will provide us with a high ground camping location. If we can't take the pickup, I also have arraingements for up to 6 horses as needed.

    Most of my inplace and bugout plans center around no electricity so I have plenty of kerosene equipment and supplies.

    Pretty good pdf here
    cheers - okboomer
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  11. #11
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    Remember, if you do not own rural land, don't plan on bugging out to rural land and squatting. That is an evil practice that most landowners will not put up with.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  12. #12
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    The practical reality is that "bugging out" to a rural area from an urban/suburban area might not be all that practical. Individual circumstances and the specific reason you're "bugging out" play a major role in whether that effort is going to be successful.

    Look at how hard it is to get out of the city, almost any city, on a holiday weekend. Several years ago, during the blizzard that seems to hit every couple of decades, neighbors spent over 14 hours in cars getting home from work, normally an hour drive at most. I worked a little farther away (70 miles) and had no chance of getting home. Stayed with friends near the work place. Point is, bugging out from an urban or suburban area can quickly become impossible for reasons that are completely beyond your control.

    Nearly 10 years ago, a power failure in Canada caused a widespread power outage in the northeast. I was with a consulting client in upstate NY when the lights went out. No power, no way to gas up my rental car. No restaurant food either and my hotel room didn't have a kitchen. I was lucky the hotel let me stay. While door locks work via battery power, many hotels have automatic toilets and sinks that require electricity to operate. Some hotels turned guests out in the street, citing NY law that prevents guests from staying when sanitary facilities fail. As luck would have it, while hunkered down in the car listening to the radio, power came back on after about 2 hours. Point is, in this situation, nobody's getting far, no matter how well prepared you are. Traffic lights will be out. Traffic jams will be the norm. Nobody can pump gas.

    Even if you own rural land only a couple of hundred miles away, if everybody else is trying to bug out, you're probably going to get caught up in a gigantic traffic jam. In my case, I have a very rural place (relatives) I can go to, but its 1,700 miles away. I can't carry enough gas to make that trip and if gas gets scarce because everybody else is bugging out too, or power failures on a widespread basis disable gas pumps, I'm screwed and hunkering down in my car with whatever I could bring.

    I think you have to have a flexible emergency plan. Bugging out in the face of a hurricane makes sense, if you get an early enough start. In other situations, bugging out won't be viable. You may have to decide to stay put.

  13. #13
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    bugging out in the face of a hurricane is for sissies. My favorite times are when a hurricane has run off all the sissies, police, firemen and other annoying employees of one government or another.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  14. #14
    Regular Member JoshuaJJackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I've got a decent amount of local information available on my computer, but printing it out would mean the paper would suffer the ravages of nature. I first stumbled across some waterproof copier paper way back in the mid-1980s, and still have a couple of hiking maps I copied to the stuff back then.

    After this afternoon's "awakening," I found this website, which sells several kinds of waterproof laser printer paper. I think it'll take inkjet, as well, but unless your inks are themselves waterproof... Laser toner is actually microscopic beads of polymer infused with carbon. The printer's fuser literally melts them to the paper.

    So, whether it's a list of phone numbers and addresses, Lat/Lon coordinates of various pre-determined shelters and food/water caches, or B&W copies of local topos, if you print them on waterproof paper, you're more likely to find them in good condition when you need them the most.
    I've never tried there copier paper [Rite in the Rain] but the books they sell are legit. I've accidently put their spiral bound and their 980T bound books through the washing machine plenty of times and have help up with no lost writting.

  15. #15
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    Since9 I laugh at your experience. if anything people should be listening to ME! While you may have been out there doing it I have stayed home and watched every episode of survivor man, man vs wild, dual survival and man woman wild there is.. so I know my stuff!! JK awesome post, thks for starting it.

    I'm going to shamefully admit my plans here. I am minimally stocked, but still steadily stocking. My plans are to have enough at home to survive a short term 3-6 month SHTF type event...but here's the bad part. My Long term TEOTWAWKI plan is to head up north a bit to a area I have been several times and pick one of a few locations I have seen and "evict" the current residents. Again.. those are the long term ( several years ) plans for a worst case scene. Which is also the scary part because everyone is vulnerable. Realistically everyone is going to go outside at some point and in most cases it is hard to be protected 100% of the time. But good bad or ugly those are my plans. My custody arrangement with my kids keeps me local to where I am and finances keep me from buying the spread I want so I stock and plan as I can.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    in general discussion there already is a Survival thread- Started almost 2 years ago

    But, I will play.... I have enough provisions / Preps for 6 - 12 months ( Water, 80 cases of Bottled water plus 2 - 55 gallon Blue water drums, a kiddy swimming pool for rain water collection & Bleach to make it all drinkable & Pool shock to make more Bleach, food, propane for cooking & heat, propane camp stoves, propane heater, LOT'S OF PROPANE, many Weapons, tons of Ammo, toilet paper, portable toilet, paper towel, water filtration, N95 masks, Radiation survey meters, IOSAT Tablets, case of Candles,6 Oil lamps, lamp oil enough for 3 years, wood matches enough for a lifetime, Multiple fire extinguishers , extreme first aid supplies, Vitamins, benadryl,Anti diarrhea, lot's of soap,tooth paste, tooth brushes, dental thoss,deoderant, razors, shaving cream, lot's of BATTERIES, Multiple radios with SW, HAM, S.A.M.E. Alert, LED flash lights, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC....My basement is nothing but Nicely stacked Totes & shelves full of canned Food... & non hybrid seeds for growing food plus, shovels, Hoes, racks


    Ask John to Move this thread to the Survival thread in General Discussion..where it belongs...
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 09-06-2011 at 11:34 AM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    But, I will play.... I have enough provisions / Preps for 6 - 12 months ( Water, 80 cases of Bottled water plus 2 - 55 gallon Blue water drums, a kiddy swimming pool for rain water collection & Bleach to make it all drinkable & Pool shock to make more Bleach, food, propane for cooking & heat, propane camp stoves, propane heater, LOT'S OF PROPANE, many Weapons, tons of Ammo, toilet paper, portable toilet, paper towel, water filtration, N95 masks, Radiation survey meters, IOSAT Tablets, case of Candles,6 Oil lamps, lamp oil enough for 3 years, wood matches enough for a lifetime, Multiple fire extinguishers , extreme first aid supplies, Vitamins, benadryl,Anti diarrhea, lot's of soap,tooth paste, tooth brushes, dental thoss,deoderant, razors, shaving cream, lot's of BATTERIES, Multiple radios with SW, HAM, S.A.M.E. Alert, LED flash lights, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC....My basement is nothing but Nicely stacked Totes & shelves full of canned Food... & non hybrid seeds for growing food plus, shovels, Hoes, racks
    You forgot painkillers, both gram + and - antibiotics (oral) and topical antibiotics.

    Ask John to Move this thread to the Survival thread in General Discussion..where it belongs...
    No. This is only superficially similar. It's vastly different in it's foundation and approach. Moving it into that thread would be like throwing a bar of soap into a cesspool.

    Quote Originally Posted by choover View Post
    Since9 I laugh at your experience. if anything people should be listening to ME! While you may have been out there doing it I have stayed home and watched every episode of survivor man, man vs wild, dual survival and man woman wild there is.. so I know my stuff!!
    Lol, You're the man!

    I watched one or two episodes. I couldn't stomach the over-dramatizations.
    Last edited by since9; 09-06-2011 at 02:54 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Strengths

    As part of the S.W.O.T. analysis, it's time to assess our Strengths. I'm offering up mine to get things going:

    1. Well-rounded education, both theoretical and practical, in the areas of multi-environment survival, engineering, chemistry, physics, finance, counseling (psychology), and education. Possess CPR and First Aid credentials, including 20 years of annual combat first aid training.

    2. Broad range of survival/backpacking experiences, both military and personal, including in multiple climates around the globe, from hot deserts with less than 10% humidity to the great white north (frozen) to jungle and rainforests.

    3. Broad set of backpacking/camping tools, ranging from a go-anywhere, all-weather set weighing less than 50 lbs (summer gear weighs just 20 lbs), to no more than 150 lbs of four-season camp-in-place gear. I've used all of it, many times, so I'm thoroughly familiar with their use in all weather conditions.

    Survival tip: Nothing beats a good set of cast iron cookware. As a minimum for personal/small family use, this should include a small skillet (7"), a large skillet (10"), and 4 qt dutch oven. Although I prefer the lightweight non-stick stuff, I've cooked countless dishes in my cast iron cookware. Nice additions would be a 14" wok, a barbeque grill grate (although I already have a cast iron grate on my propane grill that I can use over a wood fire if I want), a dual-sided grid/griddle, and an 8-qt dutch oven.

    4. Decent truck in which I can haul 100% of my gear in the interior and sleep in the bed. Alternatively, there's room for me to squeeze in between the gear and sleep inside.

    5. Decent apartment in which I can bug in, provided the neighbors remain well fed. In addition to the pool, there's a creek running through the property that'll supply enough water for every resident many times over, and we're closer to the headwaters of that creek than most, except for a few homes a little further up-sloap.

    6. Close proximity (couple of miles) to my folks' home and neighborhood. They've a boatload of firewood and a downstairs wood-fired heater. Good friends with three adjoining neighbors, all of whom hunt and are otherwise well-armed. If push came to shove in the dead of a very cold winter, they could all relocate into my folk's home to save on heating (firewood). A creek runs through their property, as well, and it's never come even close to running dry. If it does, one neighbor has a modest gas-fired drilling rig which could easily dig thirty feet down.

    Survival tip: All gasoline engines fed by a carburetor can run on propane gas. Rigging a throttle is simple: Use your grill's hi-pressure to low-pressure regulator. Attach a rubber hose to the low side and feed it directly into the carburetor. This "throttle" will lag quite a bit, so be careful! This will also work for gasoline generators, but be advised you'll burn through propane rather quickly, so it's only a very short stop-gap measure.

    Survival tip: If you're going to heat with wood, consider buying a modern, catalytic wood-burning stove. It needn't be a full stove, as the stove aspect will largely be for decoration. I've some friends who live very comfortably off the grid. They a traditional gas (propane) range/oven, but they also have a wood-burning stove. It's not that big, about 2' wide, 3' long, and 2-1/2' high, but it heats their house exceptionally well, even during the worst of winter. It has just two burner plates, but they're always cooking on it throughout the winter, so it really works.
    Last edited by since9; 09-06-2011 at 04:03 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Weaknesses

    As part of the S.W.O.T. analysis, it's time to assess our Weakness. I'm offering up mine to get things going, but I'd like to point out this is something very few people do. They'll list their strengths all day long, but it's not one's strengths that are full of gotchas. Whether by shortsightedness on our part, or by design on the part of opportunists (thieves), we're brought down by our weaknesses. It's very important to identify them, as they can be rectified. Sometimes that takes money, sometimes it takes ingenuity, or compromise.

    So...

    1. I live in an apartment complex. Buying a bit of land and building my own home would only take me a year and would cost me the same (actually less) per month at the mortgaged rate than what I'm paying now, but it can't be helped right now, as I'm short on funds. Without some funds of my own, I'm unlikely to find a bank willing to extend a revolving line of credit required to build my own home. That'll change after working for a couple of years, but I'm unlikely to break ground until the Spring of 2013.

    Apartment complexes can present all sorts of problems during crunch time, and most of those problems are walking around on two legs. When people get hungry, they'll want to eat, and when they're desperately hungry, upwards of a third of them will shed their reservations and do whatever it takes to procure food. If I wanted to mine gold from the community, I could probably stockpile a ton of pancakes and powdered eggs, and simply cook all day. However, that would only last as long as the stockpiles, at which point I'd have to bug out.

    If one wants to run a kitchen, one might invest in a large cast-iron cauldron, like this one.

    2. I'm overweight. That's both a Weakness as well as a Strength. It's a weakness because I can't carry a backpack 10 miles like I used to. It's a strength because I can last a long time provided I have water.

    3. Bad ankle. This should be getting fixed this Fall, at which point it'll no longer be a weakness.

    4. I'm minimally armed. I have a very reliable firearm, as well as a black powder backup gun, and tons of ammunition. However, I don't have a long rifle, which comes in handy taking out bad guys before they get close enough to take you out.

    5. Aside from my propane grill, which poses serious carbon monoxide risks, I have no auxiliary means of heat.

    ***

    With this, I'll wait for the rest to catch up. Strengths and Weakness go hand in hand, so this is a good stopping point for a few days.
    Last edited by since9; 09-06-2011 at 04:05 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    You forgot painkillers, both gram + and - antibiotics (oral) and topical antibiotics.



    No. This is only superficially similar. It's vastly different in it's foundation and approach. Moving it into that thread would be like throwing a bar of soap into a cesspool.



    Lol, You're the man!

    I watched one or two episodes. I couldn't stomach the over-dramatizations.
    No I didn't forget anything..I said I have a First aid kit from HELL ( I am a former first responder ) yeah..I got it all !!! & in serious quantities

    cesspool ????????????? There is more USEFULL survival info in the GENERAL DISCUSSION SURVIVAL THREAD than on this sorry excuse for a Survival Thread... let me guess you got tired of lurking on the ARFCOM survival forum...
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 09-06-2011 at 10:58 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  21. #21
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    I have two bags just about ready. Since I am in the city area one is just an immediate need of food water basic self defense for a couple of days. Second bag I am working on is going to be a little more if I have to go to nature orientated. In first bag a usb drive with important paperwork in case apartment goes to hell. If some how the DC area really gets hit getting the hell out of dodge and have various meeting points of family and friends starting from 2-3 hours drive to other side of country. Would have enough food and water to make it and would only have to worry about gas which if every pump from here to about 3 hours out loses power or the ability to be used we are going to be in a real world or hurt regardless of plan.

    At least there is one good thing about having family all over the country. One set lives in a town so small an invading army would mark it so far down the list for a target that by the time they got there I would probably be dead from old age.

  22. #22
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    As part of the S.W.O.T. analysis, it's time to assess our Weakness. I'm offering up mine to get things going, but I'd like to point out this is something very few people do. They'll list their strengths all day long, but it's not one's strengths that are full of gotchas. Whether by shortsightedness on our part, or by design on the part of opportunists (thieves), we're brought down by our weaknesses. It's very important to identify them, as they can be rectified. Sometimes that takes money, sometimes it takes ingenuity, or compromise.

    So...

    1. I live in an apartment complex. Buying a bit of land and building my own home would only take me a year and would cost me the same (actually less) per month at the mortgaged rate than what I'm paying now, but it can't be helped right now, as I'm short on funds. Without some funds of my own, I'm unlikely to find a bank willing to extend a revolving line of credit required to build my own home. That'll change after working for a couple of years, but I'm unlikely to break ground until the Spring of 2013.

    Apartment complexes can present all sorts of problems during crunch time, and most of those problems are walking around on two legs. When people get hungry, they'll want to eat, and when they're desperately hungry, upwards of a third of them will shed their reservations and do whatever it takes to procure food. If I wanted to mine gold from the community, I could probably stockpile a ton of pancakes and powdered eggs, and simply cook all day. However, that would only last as long as the stockpiles, at which point I'd have to bug out.

    If one wants to run a kitchen, one might invest in a large cast-iron cauldron, like this one.

    2. I'm overweight. That's both a Weakness as well as a Strength. It's a weakness because I can't carry a backpack 10 miles like I used to. It's a strength because I can last a long time provided I have water.

    3. Bad ankle. This should be getting fixed this Fall, at which point it'll no longer be a weakness.

    4. I'm minimally armed. I have a very reliable firearm, as well as a black powder backup gun, and tons of ammunition. However, I don't have a long rifle, which comes in handy taking out bad guys before they get close enough to take you out.

    5. Aside from my propane grill, which poses serious carbon monoxide risks, I have no auxiliary means of heat.

    ***

    With this, I'll wait for the rest to catch up. Strengths and Weakness go hand in hand, so this is a good stopping point for a few days.

    Travel N Az 120.8 357 miles and I will bet some room can be found.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    I said I have a First aid kit from HELL ( I am a former first responder ) yeah..I got it all !!! & in serious quantities
    Terrific. You're our next thoracic surgeon...

    There is more USEFULL survival info in the GENERAL DISCUSSION SURVIVAL THREAD than on this sorry excuse for a Survival Thread...
    Nope. Just a lot of drivel, which is why I started this one.

    ..let me guess you got tired of lurking on the ARFCOM survival forum...
    Where? Tell you what - you obviously know more about that place that I'd like to know, so please, by all means, go outside and play. I don't know why some people treat serious issues like these as either an exercise in one-up-manship or like simple children. Gah.

    In the meantime, there are serious issues to be covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    I have two bags just about ready. Since I am in the city area one is just an immediate need of food water basic self defense for a couple of days. Second bag I am working on is going to be a little more if I have to go to nature orientated. In first bag a usb drive with important paperwork in case apartment goes to hell. If some how the DC area really gets hit getting the hell out of dodge and have various meeting points of family and friends starting from 2-3 hours drive to other side of country. Would have enough food and water to make it and would only have to worry about gas which if every pump from here to about 3 hours out loses power or the ability to be used we are going to be in a real world or hurt regardless of plan.
    \

    You bring up a good point: How far can you get out of Dodge? 1 mile? 10 miles? What about 1,000 miles? The latter is just two months of really hoofing it with time enough to live off the land. By the way, did you know that ALL grass is edible by human beings? That's right. All leaves, roots, and shoots. Obviously the spring shoots are the sweetest - who hasn't pulled 'em and sucked on those as a kid? You can boil the leaves and roots like spinach and carrots, though, and grass is pretty much everywhere. Hard to starve unless you decide "that's not food." Yes, it is food. Use it wisely.

    At least there is one good thing about having family all over the country. One set lives in a town so small an invading army would mark it so far down the list for a target that by the time they got there I would probably be dead from old age.[/QUOTE]

    Provided they have canned food stores that'll last them and you more than a year.
    Last edited by since9; 09-27-2011 at 09:49 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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