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Thread: Utah Knife Carry

  1. #1
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    Utah Knife Carry

    I'll be visiting the state for a little while, and was thinking about this topic. There's plenty of excellent info here on OC of firearms and all, but has anyone thought about knives? What are the laws, if anyone here is around Utah? Folders? Fixed blades? Size requirements? I'm from California, and am used to the laws of no-CC'd-FB but acceptable-CC'd-folder. What is it like there? Anyone have any experience? I'd appreciate anyone's input!

  2. #2
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    Information from a former Utah Officer, also Utah passed Knife law preemption

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarrior View Post
    I'll be visiting the state for a little while, and was thinking about this topic. There's plenty of excellent info here on OC of firearms and all, but has anyone thought about knives? What are the laws, if anyone here is around Utah? Folders? Fixed blades? Size requirements? I'm from California, and am used to the laws of no-CC'd-FB but acceptable-CC'd-folder. What is it like there? Anyone have any experience? I'd appreciate anyone's input!
    Here are the comments of a former Utah police officer:


    For my working career as a cop here (which ended at retirement in '99), the state rule was that "manner of intended use" was the measuring stick for determining what was or was not considered a deadly weapon and prohibited for concealed carry. Open carry was anything goes, up to and including swords (used to encounter a guy who carried one openly slung over his back, we talked to him a couple times, he was calm & reasonable & not bugging anybody so we didn't bug him).
    No specific blade length limits for concealed carry in either folders or fixed blades.
    Technically, you could be arrested for carrying a Bowie knife up your sleeve (and we did that a couple times), but for a conviction the prosecutor would have to convince a judge or jury that the preponderance of the facts and the situation in general indicated the knife was being carried as a deadly weapon and not as a general purpose utility tool.
    Your chances of being arrested and convicted for a violation under state statute would increase with the size of the knife (big), the type (Rambo-style), and how you were carrying it (up sleeve, in boot, etc.). The circumstances where you were encountered by police would also be taken into consideration (in a gang setting, during a confrontation with police or others, etc.) as well as any statements you may have made in the presence of others.
    Something like a four-inch hunting or utility blade in a regular sheath on your belt under a shirt or jacket that was accidentally seen and called in to police while you were shopping, for example, would be much easier to explain as part of your everyday tools at work where you cut strings, ropes, or packing materials, than a 12-inch Bowie in your boot and a beer in your hand in a dark parking lot making threats such as "I got something for you here you don't wanna be messin' with!", or "I got something I carry just for *******s like you!" to one or more people in an obvious hostile and aggressive manner. The same criteria for determining an item to be a deadly weapon and carried as such in violation of state law could (and did) apply to screwdrivers.
    Switchblades were not prohibited as such by state law.
    The state may have changed its definitions since '99, and local municipalities have their own laws, which can be stricter than state statutes, but not less strict.
    Hope that helps.
    Denis

    http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/sh...hp?tid/379799/

    Also be aware that the State of Utah has now done away with all local knife laws with statewide preemption:

    http://www.kniferights.org/index.php...=141&Itemid=29

    It appears to me that you can open carry just about anything without a permit, and conceal carry anything with a permit. In between, you can carry concealed without a permit if it is not carried "as a weapon". As shown above, switchblades are not prohibited.

  3. #3
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Here are some of the current relevant statutes to reference regarding the post above.

    17-50-332. Knives regulated by state.
    (1) As used in this section, "knife" means a cutting instrument that includes a sharpened or pointed blade.
    (2) The authority to regulate a knife is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to a county.
    (3) (a) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature or, subject to Subsection (3)(b), a county ordinance with a criminal penalty, a county may not enact or enforce an ordinance or a regulation pertaining to a knife.
    (b) A county may not enact an ordinance with a criminal penalty pertaining to a knife that is:
    (i) more restrictive than a state criminal penalty pertaining to a knife; or
    (ii) has a greater criminal penalty than a state penalty pertaining to a knife.
    76-10-501. Definitions.
    As used in this part:
    ...
    (3) (a) "Concealed dangerous weapon" means a dangerous weapon that is:
    (i) covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence; and
    (ii) readily accessible for immediate use.
    (b) A dangerous weapon is not a concealed dangerous weapon if it is a firearm which is unloaded and is securely encased.
    ...
    (6) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
    (b) The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or another item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
    (i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
    (ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
    (iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
    (iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.
    (c) "Dangerous weapon" does not include an explosive, chemical, or incendiary device as defined by Section 76-10-306.
    76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
    (2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
    (a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
    (b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

    If you have a concealed firearm permit (regardless of the name of the permit, CWP, CFP, etc...) from any State or County, you may conceal your knife and the above law no longer applies.


    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    ...
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.
    Last edited by Kevin Jensen; 09-04-2011 at 11:05 PM.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #4
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Nicely articulated Kevin!
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    Here are the comments of a former Utah police officer:


    For my working career as a cop here (which ended at retirement in '99), the state rule was that "manner of intended use" was the measuring stick for determining what was or was not considered a deadly weapon and prohibited for concealed carry. Open carry was anything goes, up to and including swords (used to encounter a guy who carried one openly slung over his back, we talked to him a couple times, he was calm & reasonable & not bugging anybody so we didn't bug him).
    No specific blade length limits for concealed carry in either folders or fixed blades.
    Technically, you could be arrested for carrying a Bowie knife up your sleeve (and we did that a couple times), but for a conviction the prosecutor would have to convince a judge or jury that the preponderance of the facts and the situation in general indicated the knife was being carried as a deadly weapon and not as a general purpose utility tool.
    Your chances of being arrested and convicted for a violation under state statute would increase with the size of the knife (big), the type (Rambo-style), and how you were carrying it (up sleeve, in boot, etc.). The circumstances where you were encountered by police would also be taken into consideration (in a gang setting, during a confrontation with police or others, etc.) as well as any statements you may have made in the presence of others.
    Something like a four-inch hunting or utility blade in a regular sheath on your belt under a shirt or jacket that was accidentally seen and called in to police while you were shopping, for example, would be much easier to explain as part of your everyday tools at work where you cut strings, ropes, or packing materials, than a 12-inch Bowie in your boot and a beer in your hand in a dark parking lot making threats such as "I got something for you here you don't wanna be messin' with!", or "I got something I carry just for *******s like you!" to one or more people in an obvious hostile and aggressive manner. The same criteria for determining an item to be a deadly weapon and carried as such in violation of state law could (and did) apply to screwdrivers.
    Switchblades were not prohibited as such by state law.
    The state may have changed its definitions since '99, and local municipalities have their own laws, which can be stricter than state statutes, but not less strict.
    Hope that helps.
    Denis

    http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/sh...hp?tid/379799/

    Also be aware that the State of Utah has now done away with all local knife laws with statewide preemption:

    http://www.kniferights.org/index.php...=141&Itemid=29

    It appears to me that you can open carry just about anything without a permit, and conceal carry anything with a permit. In between, you can carry concealed without a permit if it is not carried "as a weapon". As shown above, switchblades are not prohibited.

    I nudged some folks in Utah to pass knife preemption as I have in quite a few states. What this cop was saying is a bunch of nonsense.

    Utah has complete knife preemption. If you have a concealed firearm permit, you can conceal carry ANY knife. You can also open carry any knife.

    The illustrated examples by the former Utah cop are not applicable and only serve to confuse people on the situation. You don't need a reason to carry a knife, it's not an affirmative defense style subject matter.

    Wyoming, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, New Hampshire, and Utah, have explicit complete preemption on knives.

    Florida, Georgia, and Delaware do as well for items carried under the authority of a carry license.

    New Jersey also has preemption on knives as the criminal code is completely reserved to the state and to the state alone.
    Last edited by Jared; 09-12-2011 at 08:35 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Utah has complete knife preemption. If you have a concealed firearm permit, you can conceal carry ANY knife. You can also open carry any knife.

    ...

    Wyoming, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, New Hampshire, and Utah, have explicit complete preemption on knives.
    Cite please.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Cite please.
    For Utah? It was already answered on this thread..

    17-50-332

    I forgot to add to my original post. Montana also has weapons preemption as well, in 09 they added the section of law dealing with unconcealed weapons and general possession. So Montana should be added to the list.
    Last edited by Jared; 09-13-2011 at 11:01 AM.

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    Beautiful!!! Thanks all for the info, I am indeed pleased. I'll be getting my CCW ASAP I think, in the meantime, will likely start carrying a large fixed blade (probably should be OC'd for now, huh?) in addition to my pocketed folder. Now where to find me a good switchblade....

  9. #9
    Regular Member Ma}{imus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarrior View Post
    Beautiful!!! Thanks all for the info, I am indeed pleased. I'll be getting my CCW ASAP I think, in the meantime, will likely start carrying a large fixed blade (probably should be OC'd for now, huh?) in addition to my pocketed folder. Now where to find me a good switchblade....
    www.bladehq.com Great service, great selection and price includes shipping.

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    J.F.K.

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