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update on legislative discussion : ESB 5061

Lammo

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+1

I think most LEO's would view a holstered handgun in plain sight as "open carry" purely on the simplicity of the term and connection with what they see. If someone does happen to be a test case on this and the outcome is you must have a CPL to carry loaded while riding a bike, those without CPL's would have to invest in a cute little basket for the handlebars...or just tape it to their forehead :p

Not just any tape - - Duct Tape (TM).

:)
 

Lammo

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Sounds pretty logical, given there's that thing called the 2nd Amendment. But then the anti's wouldn't know who all was carrying a firearm. It could be the recently released out of prison felon who could never, ever acquire a firearm since it's illegal for him to do so. :banghead:

Some convicted felons cannot ever lawfully acquire a firearm in WA but there are many who can. See http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.040 and http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.047.

Our court grants several restoration petitions every month.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Sudden valley Gunner for president 2012


Lol.....someone doesn't like me much....must mean I am doing something right.

Too bad though, I respect much of Trigs wisdom, just don't agree with his "love" and belief in "Law Enforcement".

But to stay on topic, some states who have done away with permission slips to carry in these manners have a much lower crime rate. Sheriff Elfo was talking to Sky is Falling and I about this and agrees.
 
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Trigger Dr

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Lol.....someone doesn't like me much....must mean I am doing something right.

Too bad though, I respect much of Trigs wisdom, just don't agree with his "love" and belief in "Law Enforcement".

But to stay on topic, some states who have done away with permission slips to carry in these manners have a much lower crime rate. Sheriff Elfo was talking to Sky is Falling and I about this and agrees.

It is not a matter of like or not like, as we have never spoken face to face. Just like you, I disagree with some of the things you support. ie your complete anti LEO attitude. You make some good points re LEO, but they do not apply universally. That is tantamount to me saying all self employed contractors are dirt bag, scammers that use substandard materials and illegal methods. We both know that is not true, so why apply it to an occupation, based on the actions of a relatively small percentage of the people in that group?
Your continous bash of LEO does nothing to help change the thinking and actions of LEO in a positive way, but goes far beyond in a negative thought pattern. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Have a good life, you deserve it.
 

heresolong

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A good idea, maybe. On the other side of the coin, it's just another "State's Right" ceded to the Fed's. Could be good for one instance and just the "nose of the camel" for many other areas where we don't want the Fed's involved. Somewhere along the line everyone has overlooked the 10th Amendment.

Actually, if you check the Constitution, the "right to bear arms" is not a State's Right at all so it can't be ceded to the Feds. It is a Constitutionally guaranteed right that has been incorporated against the states in MacDonald v Chicago.
 

sudden valley gunner

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It is not a matter of like or not like, as we have never spoken face to face. Just like you, I disagree with some of the things you support. ie your complete anti LEO attitude. You make some good points re LEO, but they do not apply universally. That is tantamount to me saying all self employed contractors are dirt bag, scammers that use substandard materials and illegal methods. We both know that is not true, so why apply it to an occupation, based on the actions of a relatively small percentage of the people in that group?
Your continous bash of LEO does nothing to help change the thinking and actions of LEO in a positive way, but goes far beyond in a negative thought pattern. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Have a good life, you deserve it.

Nope you got me wrong and we've discussed this before public employees and servants are not comparable to private sector folks.

That's ok though, I don't mind, irritating government and their minions, if it means more liberty. I don't believe we need the approval and cooperation of our servants and employees.

And you have yet to proven "anti-LEO" Bashing I do, that would be against forum rules, and as of yet I have not been censored, how about you? I use facts and logic to support my viewpoints. Just because my viewpoints may irritate those who "love law-enforcement" bothers me not. Something needs to be done to curtail and minimize government and police in our lives, how are we to do that if we dare not piss off cops and those who suffer from "copafilia".
 

amlevin

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Actually, if you check the Constitution, the "right to bear arms" is not a State's Right at all so it can't be ceded to the Feds. It is a Constitutionally guaranteed right that has been incorporated against the states in MacDonald v Chicago.

Apparently the right to regulate concealed carry IS a right of the States.
 

sudden valley gunner

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You overlooked those that operate without Contractor's Licenses or continue to operate with suspended licenses. Of course there are none of those out there.

Some are great contractors who don't believe in having someones permission to operate in their trade. Who believe in the constitutionality of contract and that the state has no business in peoples private affairs.

The analogy is a poor analogy and I have broke it down before. Private contractors or business people who do these things don't usually last long, or their reputation spreads quickly and only those like them use them. Yes there are dirt bag contractors. But you can't compare a productive part of society to those making their living off of those who are producing, enforceing political agendas and laws that have often become a joke. Like your aforementioned need for them to be licensed. Trust me licensing has nothing to do with competency. And the requirements often put good folks out of business if they have a poor year.

And like I have written before the "bad apple" argument holds no water with me. And some of the LEO who post on these forums prove it, with their unilateral support of cops. Where is the outrage that their brothers in blue, "just ended" a situation that could have ended without shooting the guy? Where is the outrage when they shoot a native woodcarver? Where is the outrage at all the illegal detentions that have been reported here? Instead you get accusations that the violated, must have had a bad attitude and that effected their "inter reaction", This is unfounded demagoguery, second SO What! Be professional, second if they don't violate them their wouldn't be attitudes. That's like declaring "she deserved to be raped, she dressed and acted like a slut". Where is the outrage when they "beat the Mexican piss" out of innocent men? Why will they refuse to address the problem of perjury that runs rampant among them? Why are they for the militarization of a "civilian" police force? Why do they support unconstitutional laws? And often lobby for them?

When contractors lie or violate ethical rules most contractors will immediately out them and not want to associate themselves with them. We are the first to out the liars and scum bags. And we are outraged when we hear about people who had poor service or were treated badly and we are not afraid to publicly announce this outrage. You simply cannot say the same about the largest street gang in America now can you?

I am not anti LEO. I am for restructuring and limiting their powers to well with in constitutional boundaries.
 
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amlevin

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When contractors lie or violate ethical rules most contractors will immediately out them and not want to associate themselves with them. We are the first to out the liars and scum bags. And we are outraged when we hear about people who had poor service or were treated badly and we are not afraid to publicly announce this outrage.


I happen to have a front row seat to the "Contracting Industry". Sadly, what you suggest here is not happening. Maybe in your world but there are many unlicensed contractors out there that are unlicensed for a reason. They don't have insurance, don't pay the payroll taxes for their employees (hire for cash and don't care if they're here legally).

Legitimate Contractors "out" these people almost every day. The reality is that people are always willing to hire solely on the basis of price and then think they got a good deal.

Yes, every industry has it's "scofflaw's". To brand one as totally corrupt and self protecting, just remember the "Glass House Rule".
 

sudden valley gunner

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I happen to have a front row seat to the "Contracting Industry". Sadly, what you suggest here is not happening. Maybe in your world but there are many unlicensed contractors out there that are unlicensed for a reason. They don't have insurance, don't pay the payroll taxes for their employees (hire for cash and don't care if they're here legally).

Legitimate Contractors "out" these people almost every day. The reality is that people are always willing to hire solely on the basis of price and then think they got a good deal.

Yes, every industry has it's "scofflaw's". To brand one as totally corrupt and self protecting, just remember the "Glass House Rule".

I have a front row seat I am a contractor. Who cares? If someone wants to hire someone who isn't licensed? Maybe if we did away with all the taxes on employees none of this would matter. This does not mean they do bad work. Like I said there are scum contractors there are many licensed contractors, who are not good at what they do. It has nothing to do competency. There is no test. And people do get what they pay for that is called a free market. Yet we don't get this option with cops now do we?

And having a license and all the requirement price those contractors out of the range. The state rules do nothing but hurt "lawful" (scoff) contractors. Funny how the blame and liability is put on the contractor not the "homeowner" who hires them, not the employees who work under the table. The laws and system is a joke.

P.S. Cops isn't an industry, they produce nothing. We are obligated to criticize our government and point out there faults. They are a public entity again not a private entity so the analogy is a piss poor one.
 
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tombrewster421

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It makes perfect sense for a contractor to expose the scumbags of their own trade because they're competition. I guess the police don't feel that way because they're a "team". And I also have a front row seat in the contracting game because I am one. I totally agree with SVG.
 

BigDave

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As for those claiming to be contractors or contractors in lets say good standing it is of public record and can be found here, https://fortress.wa.gov/lni/bbip/ and can easily be searched to find out if they are in good standing or one at all.

There was one member just ripped a new one on the forum for being what some consider deceitful it appears we have more then one that fits that boat.
 

amlevin

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Who cares? If someone wants to hire someone who isn't licensed? Maybe if we did away with all the taxes on employees none of this would matter.

The Contractor License in WA may not have a required test to prove competency but it does require that the Contractor show proof of insurance. That they carry workman't comp insurance on their employees. That they are bonded so the Owner isn't screwed if the Contractor walks off with his funds leaving liens all over the place.

It may be a "good deal" to hire an unlicensed contractor but when that roofer falls off the building, breaks his neck, and is paralyzed for life, no workman's comp or liability insurance could well put the Owner on the hook for a ton of expenses.

It may be a good deal until the State and Federal Government shows up looking for all the payroll taxes that weren't withheld. Like what happens when an unlicensed contractor just says "I was working for Joe Homeowner and he was supposed to be paying all those".
 

sudden valley gunner

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The Contractor License in WA may not have a required test to prove competency but it does require that the Contractor show proof of insurance. That they carry workman't comp insurance on their employees. That they are bonded so the Owner isn't screwed if the Contractor walks off with his funds leaving liens all over the place.

It may be a "good deal" to hire an unlicensed contractor but when that roofer falls off the building, breaks his neck, and is paralyzed for life, no workman's comp or liability insurance could well put the Owner on the hook for a ton of expenses.

It may be a good deal until the State and Federal Government shows up looking for all the payroll taxes that weren't withheld. Like what happens when an unlicensed contractor just says "I was working for Joe Homeowner and he was supposed to be paying all those".

Yet they choose to use these contractors over and over again. It's called freedom of contract.

Socialism has many forms and one is the state regulating everything that is done.

What should be changed is holding tax payers and others accountable for individual choices that happen between 2 parties.

But like I said this has nothing to do with public employees it was a poor analogy.

Legislation should be reduced not increased. We should carry guns without permission from the state in what ever manner we feel comfortable as long as it doesn't cause physical harm to others.
 
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BigDave

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Yet they choose to use these contractors over and over again. It's called freedom of contract.
Socialism has many forms and one is the state regulating everything that is done.
What should be changed is holding tax payers and others accountable for individual choices that happen between 2 parties.
But like I said this has nothing to do with public employees it was a poor analogy.
Legislation should be reduced not increased. We should carry guns without permission from the state in what ever manner we feel comfortable as long as it doesn't cause physical harm to others.

It is NALU CONSTRUCTION, correct?
You can dance all the dance you want, it is illegal to work as a contractor in Washington State with out a license, like it or not, it protects the homeowner from those who do not pay their State Taxes, L & I Insurance and ends up being sued by the State AG Office and then to have their license suspended, which it appears it still is.

From your comments it seems you are one of those unlicensed contractors that continue to violate the law.
 
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BigDave

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It makes perfect sense for a contractor to expose the scumbags of their own trade because they're competition. I guess the police don't feel that way because they're a "team". And I also have a front row seat in the contracting game because I am one. I totally agree with SVG.

Tom I agree with your first part of your statement of exposing those scumbags or illegally operating, same thing right?

I was just browsing https://fortress.wa.gov/lni/bbip/ looking for your contractor license, did not see one.
 

sudden valley gunner

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It is NALU CONSTRUCTION, correct?
You can dance all the dance you want, it is illegal to work as a contractor in Washington State with out a license, like it or not, it protects the homeowner from those who do not pay their State Taxes, L & I Insurance and ends up being sued by the State AG Office and then to have their license suspended, which it appears it still is.

From your comments it seems you are one of those unlicensed contractors that continue to violate the law.

No dance needed I have been very open about my financial troubles, even though creeps like you use it for fodder to attack someones points.

It is and t has lapsed and I haven't paid it because I haven't had any business through my company name. I still consider myself a contractor though (even though I have done no contracting these past few months), and have kept up my insurance and bond, just need to pay the state $126.00 to renew the lapsed license, which I will do when the next job in my name comes up. It wasn't suspended for the reasons you mentioned just lapsed. Nice try though, all you are really doing is demagoguery and ad hominem, but that of course is typical you. But I don't need your approval, the people I have built for and who know my work will all give me good references and have.

You are the creepy stalker guy aren't you?

My points still stand. I do my best to stay above board, but I still firmly believe the state has no business in our private affairs and their "laws" you so love do not prevent people from making a living contrary to them. It does nothing but make criminals out of folks struggling to provide for themselves.

If they ban guns tomorrow you going to dutifully turn all yours in?
 
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BigDave

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COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Member's personal information is not relevant to gun rights and inappropriate to post here.

Never knew referencing and posting references to support ones position where no personal information was revealed was inappropriate.
Does this mean the Moderator will be going through and removing all personal information from the forum ever posted? I don't think so.

Someone posting as in this case a contractor license had lapsed as he was using it support his position and then to I post public information that contradicts this information as being suspended do to charges from the Washington State Attorney Generals Office on failing to pay State Taxes and Labor and Industries Insurance is a horse of a different color.

The license in question has been suspended since 11/20/2010 not lapsed as he would like others to believe.

Effective Date 6/1/1995
Expiration Date 11/29/2012
Suspend Date 11/20/2010

in an opposing statement was against the forums rules?

Here you look it up https://fortress.wa.gov/lni/bbip/ NALU CONSTRUCTION (note public information not personal)
 
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