Why carry at home during a storm

peter nap · Sep 5, 2011

The police departments have been quiet about crime during the hurricane but I did run across one that's pretty reliable in Hanover.

Shorty after the power went off, two armed men broke into a house on Wonderland La. in Mechanicsville, pistol whipped and robbed the occupant and ransacked the house.

The source for this was the victims brother.

Citizen · Sep 5, 2011

Hmmmm. That's kind of an ideal time to stage a home invasion if that is your career, no?

Phones are probably out. No power for an alarm system. Lots more get-away time.

I think I may have to install that twin-fifty ball turret in the front hall ceiling after all.

TFred · Sep 5, 2011

I wonder why that house? Almost sounds like they knew who and what was there for the taking, and just waited for an opportunity to present itself.

Be interesting to see if any more info comes out.

TFred

mobeewan · Sep 5, 2011

My dad lives across the street from me. I am on the low side of the street and was expecting flooding so I stayed at my dad's. During Irene I slept with a Colt govt model, a STI 2011 both in .45ACP and a 12 gage Remington 1187 police model. Only lost power for 18 hrs.

In 2003, after Isabel we were without power for 8 days. I slept in my TT in my front yard with the windows open so I could listen out for the generators. My dad and I were the only one's on my street with generators and they had stolen the one placed at the main intersection around the corner to operate the traffic lights. I chained them to the front porches and slept with the Colt govt model, the 12 gage and a Colt Sporter Competition H-bar loaded with hollow points. When out and about I had the govt model holstered and the H-bar unloaded and cased in the rear floor board of the truck with the mag's loose inside the case with the H-bar. It was getting a little hairy around town at what few stores and gas stations were open that had power.

Kevin108 · Sep 5, 2011

I loathe to give any traffic to this liberal rag but the Pilot did have a small story on some burglaries in Norfolk.
http://hamptonroads.com/2011/09/burglars-norfolk-were-active-during-irene-outages

The day of the the storm I spent fully dressed with my G26 on my hip.

TFred · Sep 5, 2011

If for no other reason than the fact that a wide-scale severely-disruptive natural incident changes the well-known mantra to:

"When seconds count, police are only hours away..."

TFred

Kevin108 · Sep 6, 2011

With potential for downed phone and power lines, washed-out or otherwise impassable roads, overwhelmed cell networks, etc., you may very well find yourself on your own in a weather emergency. Prepare accordingly.

eyesopened · Sep 6, 2011

Also there have been reports of people's generators being stolen after the storm.

mobeewan · Sep 6, 2011

During the storm there was a tree across the road and 2 residents were trying to remove it and a second tree fell on one of them. The person died. Took 3-1/2 hours for EMS to respond

http://www.diedin.com/article3739817/king_william_man_killed_during_irene.htm

Tess · Sep 6, 2011

Not meant as a criticism to any who have posted, as I also agree keeping the firearm to hand is wise, however one should decide whether theft of one's property constitutes a direct, immediate, or serious threat.

JamesCanby · Sep 6, 2011

Tess said:
Not meant as a criticism to any who have posted, as I also agree keeping the firearm to hand is wise, however one should decide whether theft of one's property constitutes a direct, immediate, or serious threat.

Sooooo.... you're on your own property and someone attempts to steal the generator that is providing power to your fridge, freezer and lights. Do you just stand there and watch them cut the chain and haul it away -- because the theft of that property does not constitute a direct, immediate or serious threat?"

Really?

Lincoln7 · Sep 6, 2011

Tess said:
Not meant as a criticism to any who have posted, as I also agree keeping the firearm to hand is wise, however one should decide whether theft of one's property constitutes a direct, immediate, or serious threat.

I think it does in response to the OP's information. Some of the other examples given may be questionable...in Virginia.

TFred · Sep 6, 2011

Just me thinking out loud.

It seems to me that if you are in the general vicinity of your valuable personal property (a generator, and perhaps consumables required for survival), or even better, if you are physically between a potential bad guy and said valuables, then one cannot purport to steal such items without also implying some physical threat to you, the guardian of said items.

At some point, if any semblance of civilized society still exists, one must surely be permitted to stand one's ground in guard of valuable items, especially such items required for survival, and in the face of threat from one who intends to overcome your guardianship by some means detrimental to your well-being, self-defense justification would seem to come into play.

I guess we'll need to wait for User to stop by and give us his thoughts.

TFred

skidmark · Sep 6, 2011

JamesCanby said:
Sooooo.... you're on your own property and someone attempts to steal the generator that is providing power to your fridge, freezer and lights. Do you just stand there and watch them cut the chain and haul it away -- because the theft of that property does not constitute a direct, immediate or serious threat?"

Really?

If that was all that was going on, and you were not able to disuade them with some level of force less than deadly force, then yes, the answer is "Yes, you stand there and let them take it." As much as it frosts everyone, Virginia case law clearly states that you are not privileged to defend property with deadly force. You can do so, but you take your chances with winding up in prison yourself. Please pay close attention to the fact that I noted that you can use some levels of force to protect property - just not deadly force.

However, the situation reported by the OP was that two armed men broke in, pistol-whipped the occupant, and robbed him. That's armed robbery with violence. In that case self defense by use of deadly force is not prohibited.

Please be aware that not only how you ask your question but what conditions you put in the scenario will effect what sort of answer you will get.

stay safe.

peter nap · Sep 6, 2011

Tess and Skid make a good point.
What we say here is a permanent record and can come back to bite us later.

That said...I haven't seen anything really wrong with the discussion so far. Being armed while guarding your property is only common sense.

Dutch Uncle · Sep 6, 2011

I have more canisters of OC spray than I can count in this house. They are in every room, and on the sill above each entry door. I think opening a few cans of that whoop-ass on them might make stealing much less pleasant. If they still escalate, then so can you. Maybe OC wouldn't have been worth the trouble; that's a judgment call for you, since these kinds of situations can be so fluid.

Tess · Sep 6, 2011

Lincoln7 said:
I think it does in response to the OP's information. Some of the other examples given may be questionable...in Virginia.

I should have been clearer. I did mean my comments to address some of the posts after the original.

I believe the theft of the generator, absent threats to my person or family, does not justify deadly force. I don't see it as "necessary to survival". Your mileage may vary; we're not all the same person.

And as I said, I am not passing judgment, I'm simply asking folks to think things all the way through and consider whether they really mean what they posted.

TFred · Sep 6, 2011

Tess said:
I should have been clearer. I did mean my comments to address some of the posts after the original.

I believe the theft of the generator, absent threats to my person or family, does not justify deadly force. I don't see it as "necessary to survival". Your mileage may vary; we're not all the same person.

And as I said, I am not passing judgment, I'm simply asking folks to think things all the way through and consider whether they really mean what they posted.

Absolutely, circumstances and details are what count.

Are you "chasing" the thief down the street after you notice your power goes out? Or are you sitting on top of your generator, staring down a thug approaching you with a baseball bat?

Are we at the tail end of an inconvenient couple of days, in a city neighborhood with all underground power lines? Or are we at the beginning of a major hurricane, and living at the end of a 2 mile long tree-lined driveway?

All these sorts of things factor in.

TFred

Citizen · Sep 6, 2011

Regarding generators, I guess whether the generator was supplying power for a oxygen equipment, or a small fridge to keep insulin cool, etc., might come into play.

You guys have convinced me, though. With all the stories of bad stuff done by crooks, during the next bad weather event, I'm gonna have to get my shotgun from the bottom of that boating accident lake and keep it handy. I'll let 'em take my stuff from outside, but darned if I'm gonna let anybody point guns at me.

ODA 226 · Sep 7, 2011

skidmark said:
If that was all that was going on, and you were not able to disuade them with some level of force less than deadly force, then yes, the answer is "Yes, you stand there and let them take it." As much as it frosts everyone, Virginia case law clearly states that you are not privileged to defend property with deadly force. You can do so, but you take your chances with winding up in prison yourself. Please pay close attention to the fact that I noted that you can use some levels of force to protect property - just not deadly force.

This is a situation that warrants the proper application of an "Impact Deterent Device", formally known as a "Hickory Shampoo". If they try to take it, make 'em pay for it.

Why carry at home during a storm

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