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Thread: Having a drink or two while carrying

  1. #1
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    Having a drink or two while carrying

    I looked into handgunlaw.us, and it states carrying into a "class b" in Iowa is ok, so thats taken care of. However, 724.4C Possession or carrying of firearms while under the influence. States,

    "A permit issued under this chapter is invalid if the person to whom the permit is issued is intoxicated as provided in section 321J.2, subsection 1." (http://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/ACO/I...hapter.724.pdf)

    So move to 321J.1

    "321J.2 Operating while under the influence of alcohol or a drug or while having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more (OWI).
    1. A person commits the offense of operating while intoxicated if the person operates a motor vehicle in this state in any of the following conditions:
    a. While under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or other drug or a combination of such substances.
    b. While having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.
    c. While any amount of a controlled substance is present in the person, as measured in the personís blood or urine."
    (http://thompsonjustice.com/2008/02/f...2%A7321j2-owi/)

    Lets not get into the "if you should" drink and carry, I would like to hear the "if it is legal" to do so. I would like to think a drink or two with a meal would be legal... But, it says in section a, "While under the influence of an alcoholic beverage " so one would think that means even one sip renders your permit invalid. Then sub section b goes on to say, "While having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more." This would seem to mean that sub section a says with ANY alcohol in your system, even a .01, would mean you are commiting an OWI. Sub section b says it needs to be .08 or higher. I am a bit confused, thoughts?
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    In short, a permit to carry weapons is valid as long as you BAC is under 0.08. This has come up before, and "under the influence" is defined in the code somewhere, I don't know exactly where. Just like it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle on a public roadway while "under the influence."

    Quote Originally Posted by Department of Public Safety
    All carry permits and permits to acquire pistols or revolvers are invalid when the permit holder is intoxicated. This is defined as any one of the following:
    1) while under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or other drug or a combination of such substances,
    2) while having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more, or
    3) while any amount of a controlled substance is present in the person, as measured in the person's blood or urine.
    Last edited by amaixner; 09-06-2011 at 09:53 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    While I fully advocate open and concealed carry of firearms, I do however caution people to be seen drinking while carrying. Although we as individuals know that what we are doing is legal, the only concern I share with the anti's is drinking while carrying. All I ask is that you continue to be a responsible citizen while carrying and drinking.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Have a beer with dinner, not a problem, go to a bar to drink...leave the car and gun at home. Much less problem that way. Even a long cab ride is cheaper than a DUI.

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    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I know I will get flamed for this... Alcohol impares judgement. 3 beers certainly impares you more then 1, but any imparement while carrying in not acceptable. I would not want an impared, but otherwise lawful carrier making situational decisions in a restaurant where my family was seated. For those that drink and carry b/c your state has no law against it I say this.... You are the reasons restrictions are passed on to the rest of us, not the libtards! Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. If you have even one drink put the pistol away until one hour has passed IMHO. We have to be self-policing or others will do it for us by way of added restrictions.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermonter View Post
    I know I will get flamed for this... Alcohol impares judgement. 3 beers certainly impares you more then 1, but any imparement while carrying in not acceptable. I would not want an impared, but otherwise lawful carrier making situational decisions in a restaurant where my family was seated. For those that drink and carry b/c your state has no law against it I say this.... You are the reasons restrictions are passed on to the rest of us, not the libtards! Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. If you have even one drink put the pistol away until one hour has passed IMHO. We have to be self-policing or others will do it for us by way of added restrictions.
    Flamed, no.

    But, would you also push for the same when operating a motor vehicle, that even being seen having one beer means you can't drive? I hope so. Not because I think you are right, but you should be consistent at least. After all, driving is OPERATING a dangerous machine. Having a drink while carrying is merely POSSESSION of a dangerous device (though the same could be said for your steak knife next to you while you have those two glasses of wine in the restaurant.)
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    In short, you may only legally carry if you could legally drive. I also believe that if someone can't be trusted enough to carry at .07, they can't be trusted to carry at .00 -- my personal opinion.

    Note also, that several sheriffs expressed concern about the fact that they can not compel a alcohol test from someone carrying (as they may with someone driving). Apparently there is no "implied consent" when carrying, and therefor you do not have to take any kind of unwarranted alcohol test.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaixner View Post
    ...Note also, that several sheriffs expressed concern about the fact that they can not compel a alcohol test from someone carrying (as they may with someone driving). Apparently there is no "implied consent" when carrying, and therefor you do not have to take any kind of unwarranted alcohol test.
    Driving is a licensed activity.

    Open carrying in most places is not.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Driving is a licensed activity.

    Open carrying in most places is not.
    They were referring to permit carry. There is technically no prohibition on having a .20 while legally carrying in a manner for which no permit or license is required.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Thanks for the correction.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Last edited by Keith Cromm; 05-24-2012 at 12:04 AM.
    I open carry because if a bad guy attacks me anyway, I am best prepared to respond appropriately, with minimal fuss, and my bearing of a firearm is not infringed by having to lift my shirt, pull back my jacket, or unzip some pouch. Forcing people to carry concealed is an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaixner View Post
    They were referring to permit carry. There is technically no prohibition on having a .20 while legally carrying in a manner for which no permit or license is required.
    The .08 rule is better than what it was before Shall Issue. If the Sheriff did not put any restrictions on your permit, you could legally have as many drinks as you like, and still be legal. Thats something alot of people do not know.

  13. #13
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermonter View Post
    Alcohol impares judgement.

    3 beers certainly impares you more then 1, but any imparement while carrying in not acceptable.

    I would not want an impared, but otherwise lawful carrier making situational decisions in a restaurant where my family was seated..

    ... if you have even one drink put the pistol away until one hour has passed IMHO.

    We have to be self-policing or others will do it for us by way of added restrictions.
    Great points...one and all!
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermonter View Post
    I know I will get flamed for this... Alcohol impares judgement. 3 beers certainly impares you more then 1, but any imparement while carrying in not acceptable. I would not want an impared, but otherwise lawful carrier making situational decisions in a restaurant where my family was seated. For those that drink and carry b/c your state has no law against it I say this.... You are the reasons restrictions are passed on to the rest of us, not the libtards! Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. If you have even one drink put the pistol away until one hour has passed IMHO. We have to be self-policing or others will do it for us by way of added restrictions.
    I trust that you give someone else control of your firearm for 1 hour after a drink, because you cannot be trusted not to retrieve it in a moment of impaired judgement. Safe assumption?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermonter View Post
    I know I will get flamed for this... Alcohol impairs judgement. 3 beers certainly impairs you more then 1, but any impairment while carrying in not acceptable. I would not want an impaired, but otherwise lawful carrier making situational decisions in a restaurant where my family was seated. For those that drink and carry b/c your state has no law against it I say this.... You are the reasons restrictions are passed on to the rest of us, not the libtards! Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. If you have even one drink put the pistol away until one hour has passed IMHO. We have to be self-policing or others will do it for us by way of added restrictions.
    Then you must be consistent in your call to abrogate the right of self-defense in the home also until one hour has passed after the last adult beverage.

    Definitions. 571.010. As used in this chapter, the following terms shall mean:

    (11) "Intoxicated", substantially impaired mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body;

    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties. 571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c571.htm
    I understand that you are referring to 'restaurants', going out. But, the affects of any substance, alcohol in this case, that impairs 'judgement' is not limited to only going out.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I understand that you are referring to 'restaurants', going out. But, the affects of any substance, alcohol in this case, that impairs 'judgement' is not limited to only going out.
    Good point. I think the point is......Dont do anything to impair your ability to think and react while your carrying a firearm.

    I for one wish they would take that out of the current Iowa law. Yes we have a right to bear arms, but that right comes with great responsibility.

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    From a practical perspective the "Don't do anything to impair your ability to think and react while your carrying a firearm." can not work.

    No booze, no medication, no distractions, no normal (whatever normal for you is) life.

    We are carrying a tool.

    Sure, we need to be a little more vigilant, because a thug cop could be lurking around any corner. But that mind set, which I do not hold, is not about self defense but about mitigating any legal hassles, any inconveniences, potentially huge inconveniences to be sure.

    Maybe the proper perspective is, we law abiding citizens are responsible for our actions. And leave it at that.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    I just have to chime in on this one, because the discussion went on forever on the Missouri thread..

    I carry a weapon and I like to drink....I never OC while drinking, but CC is another story.

    Just because I like to drink doesn't mean that I should not have the ability to defend myself, that said, explains why I never OC if I do drink. I don't need some idiot coming up to me and give me crap, even though I have a right to OC. A drunk will be the first person to challange you and possibly try to grab your weapon...(JMHO)

    OC is second nature to me, like said above it is a tool, something that I carry everday without a second thought ( and sometimes it is almost TOO second nature). If I drink I CC and am more aware of what is going on, because I am going to do my best to stay out of situations that require me to defend myself. I am never looking for a confrontation whether OC or CC, but I think about my "tool" the entire time if I am drinking.

    I be damned tho, if I cannot have the option to defend myself, out and about or in my home, just because I decided to have a few beers.

    Missouri changed it's laws because a person was passed out drunk in his home. Police were called on a domestic dispute and charged him with possesion of a firearm while intoxicated. He did not have any weapons on him, they were just in his house. If the law was not changed, every hunter in Missouri would be charged on Friday night, even though they had all their weapons in a gun safe!!

    If your state has a law about possession of a weapon while intoxicated, don't think for one minute that it does not apply to your home!

    Had a few too many drinks...you own (POSSESS) weapons...you go to jail!!

    If the PoPo wants you....they are going to get you!!

    Z

    Just to make this clear...I am not condoning drinking and carrying..It is my choice...and legal right to do so....I do advocate however, that regardless of what condition you may be in, if you are an American Citizen,(Drunk, High, Black Panther, KKK, Al Queda, Morman, Christian or Jew) you have the right to defend yourself, especially in your own home!!!

    Let the bashing begin!!!
    Last edited by zekester; 04-28-2012 at 11:36 AM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    To ALL Whom are Concerned:

    There are States, Including Mine in Georgia, that ALLOW a Person to Drink Alcohol while that Person is Carrying a Firearm.

    Iowa is also a State that Allows a Person to Drink Alcohol while Armed with a Firearm so as long as The Person does NOT have a Blood-Alcohol Content at or above .08%.

    With that having been said..., it is a Personal Choice to Drink Alcohol while Armed with a Firearm, BUT it may NOT be a Good Idea, Especially in some Places.

    Also..., there are a lot of People who would Assume, Erroneously, that Drinking Alcohol while Armed with a Firearm is Illegal, and that may or may not be True, Depending on which State that The Person with The Firearm is in, or Depending on whether or not The Person is from a State that does NOT Allow that Conduct and The Person Assumes, based on that Persons' Previous State of Residence, that that Conduct is Prohibited Everywhere, when, in Fact, it is NOT.

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 04-28-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    To ALL Whom are Concerned:

    Iowa is also a State that Allows a Person to Drink Alcohol while Armed with a Firearm so as long as The Person does NOT have a Blood-Alcohol Content at or above .08%.

    aadvark
    My point exactly, what stops the State of Iowa from knocking on you door and you possess firearms, but decided to have a few drinks, from charging you with possesion while intoxicated. Let say you neighbor is pissed cuz you are having a party, you have no firearm on you, but you have 12 guage leaning aginst your bedroom wall for protection.......guess what?.....you "are in possession of a firearm while intoxicated".....you go to jail!!!
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    You'd have to be pretty damned drunk to let a cop in without a warrant to find it.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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