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Thread: Suicide and Unrestrictive Gun Laws

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Suicide and Unrestrictive Gun Laws

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...revention.html

    I'm sure we can all agree that suicide is tragic and preventable. What is interesting is the article makes multiple references to easily accessible firearms in one's residence AND Arizona's lax gun laws as being one of the primary reasons for the high suicide rates among teens in Arizona. I'm thinking that more needs to go into education; on both suicide prevention AND coupling that education with parents being responsible enough to keep their firearms out of sight when a child is in crisis. The article mentioned that parents 'shouldn't keep loaded guns in the house.' We can agree that if someone is desperate enough, they will find other means to do whatever it is they want to do. Gun or no gun. I agree that suicide among teens is a problem, but legislating that families put their safety at risk won't help. Sure, make it more difficult for a child to find or access a firearm, but doing that means that they need to be aware of what is going on. Thoughts?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    It's just more "ends justify the means" skullduggery from the left, using "it's for the children," and twisting statistics to "prove" their point that YOU should be disarmed.

    I didn't read the article, but I bet "teenagers" probably included "kids" in their 20's. Their botom line is they want to take YOUR gun away from you.

    Read Page 64 in this document - it's a great source for debunking myths.

    John Lott also covers kid suicides in "The Bias Against guns."

    I also remember reading years ago about suiccides and gun control, but I can't recall the source and don't find it my personal library. Japan has strict gun control and the suicide rate is very high.

    Canada has stricter laws than we do and after passing their gun bans, suicides didn't decrease. Instead there was an increase in the use of other methods. When people are commited to offing themselves, they'll find a way.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 09-06-2011 at 03:51 PM.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Good read, lots of good info.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    There was a study in a prestigious journal, which wasn't given much attention because it didn't mesh with the establishment's anti-gun bias. The study just confirmed common sense. Countries that have lax gun laws will see the method of murder and suicide favoring a firearm, but access has no bearing on the level of violence. Specifically, I remember Switzerland had a high rate of suicide mostly by gun. Japan had a suicide rate so high it's difficult for me to believe, but very few committed suicide by firearm. Criminal violence is determined by social/moral factors. Making it easier for people to kill ( easy access to guns) doesn't make normal people killers; it makes it easier for them to defend themselves against the violent.

    Hiding guns from teenagers really isn't a preventive measure. They'll find another way. If the situation is that bad, deeper measures need to be taken.
    Last edited by 77zach; 09-06-2011 at 04:13 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    IMHO: The legal drug pushers and their anti-depressants have a larger influence on suicide that any particular method of committing suicide. Or have you not heard the adds "if you have any thoughts of suicide, be sure to contact your doctor immeadiatly" ya right, when they have gotten to the point that they have (legal) drug induced thoughts of suicide they are no longer rational enough to follow those instructions.

    I am not saying we should not have any anti-depressants, it is just that they are way more dangerous than firearms. What they don't tell you is, just because there is a suicide, and their was a firearm available, does not necessarily mean the firearm was used in teh suicide or suicide attempt. (but they will never publish that data, because it will never be collected)

    I know about suicide and suicide attempts (not me, relatives) in one case the person did use a shotgun that was available, in the other case, the person took a whole month's worth of prescribed meds, at one time...even though there were several (Rifles, pistols and shotguns) firearms available. I know another case where there was a single car accident, that did not result in death,,,but I was told, yes, she had tried to commit suicide (firearms available in that family too)...I personally blame on prescribed anti-depressant as none of these people ever sounded like they would ever consider suicide prior to their starting to use prescription anti-depressants.

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    IT would be interesting to know why those suicides were committed instead of the instrument used to conduct it.
    Prevention starts with the source, not the means.
    To use this "its for the children " excuse is pathetic. Im very interested in the problems that children face. Lets take my community for example. Gangs in schools are the biggest contributing factor to children who are at risk. Our school system has a bunch of idiots who think all the kids need to dress the same. " So how in the hell are we going to tell who's the gangs and who is not". This is nothing more than profiling but its something im very good at.
    Involvement is prevention. When people become involved with their childrens activities, they learn more about what the child goes through on a day to day basis.
    Its not the gun that is the problem. If you take away all the guns, the child with a problem will still be the same.
    Prevention and involvement will work wonders.
    Maybe some of these kids simply need a little adult involvement such as going to the gun range or hunting and fishing.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I fully agree. It is not the tool that is to blame. Japan has no private weapons ownership, yet has one of the highest rates of suicide for young people in the world. It is stupid for someone to blame the tool and not the actual cause of the problem in question. I would surmise that if firearms were available that the instance of them being used in a suicide would be higher. If guns are not readily available, it doesn't make the problem of suicidal tendencies go away, the person would use something else that is more readiy available. A hurt and angry kid is still a hurt or angry kid with or without a gun. Solve the problem, don't mask the symptoms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I fully agree. It is not the tool that is to blame. Japan has no private weapons ownership, yet has one of the highest rates of suicide for young people in the world. It is stupid for someone to blame the tool and not the actual cause of the problem in question. I would surmise that if firearms were available that the instance of them being used in a suicide would be higher. If guns are not readily available, it doesn't make the problem of suicidal tendencies go away, the person would use something else that is more readiy available. A hurt and angry kid is still a hurt or angry kid with or without a gun. Solve the problem, don't mask the symptoms.
    Yeah friend, Interesting you mentioned Japan, I lived there as a kid, and had learned over the last 30 years
    that the young people kill them self's by jumping off bridges and such, when they can't or don't make it
    good in school.
    The reason is they believe they will never have a life then, and no success in life.
    Only the rich, and the gangs can get guns in that country.
    The common people don't have any guns.
    That's sad
    Robin47

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    IMO suicides by firearms are generally a done deal, a shotgun blast to the head is generally final, unlike taking a bottle of sleeping pills, you can't change your mind after you shot yourself in the head and call 911 for them to pump your stomach like they can with pills.

    Guns make it simpler and quicker with little room for 2nd chances. If all guns were to vanish form the planet they would just find another method, but it might take em 2 or 3 tries before they get it right.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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