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Thread: What I heard today

  1. #1
    Regular Member Da Po-lock's Avatar
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    What I heard today

    I talked briefly to a lady at NWTC today about the CC class they will offer this it what I understand is happening right now:

    1) The DOJ already sent out guidelines of what the training needs to consist of and are waiting for Law Enforcement Acency Association approval which is expected to happen somewhere between Sept. 21-24.

    2) A bill is being written to NOW to define exactly will qualify as training and it should be done by Nov. 1

    I asked her if she was familiar with Act 35 and she said she was and I explained the law is already clearly written. She agreed and said the school has to wait for the DOJ rules in order to put together a class.

    Again, this was a quick conversation and this is my understanding of what I was told.

    Has anyone heard of these things happening ?
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    #1 sounds like a bunch of baloney. I can't even find any such agency with that name in wisconsin. Not to mention it wouldn't have anything to do with this bill.

    #2 I cannot find any such bill in any committee. And, the bill would be nothing more than a new amendment/change/addition to the already published Act/Law. The current law can go into affect without any such additional bill.

    Basically the DOJ needs to **** or get off the pot, because the rumors out there are getting ridiculous.

  3. #3
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    Look here?
    This is close: http://www.wlea.org/index.html

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    this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Po-lock View Post
    I talked briefly to a lady at NWTC today about the CC class they will offer this it what I understand is happening right now:

    1) The DOJ already sent out guidelines of what the training needs to consist of and are waiting for Law Enforcement Acency Association approval which is expected to happen somewhere between Sept. 21-24.

    2) A bill is being written to NOW to define exactly will qualify as training and it should be done by Nov. 1

    I asked her if she was familiar with Act 35 and she said she was and I explained the law is already clearly written. She agreed and said the school has to wait for the DOJ rules in order to put together a class.

    Again, this was a quick conversation and this is my understanding of what I was told.

    Has anyone heard of these things happening ?
    This seems closer.... hell it is a facility taxpayer subsidised and making money but will not allow firearms in the buildings. lol. I would not give them one plugged nickle unless they allow carry in class.

    http://www.nwtc.edu/academics/ProgTe...0Training.aspx
    Last edited by Packfanatic; 09-06-2011 at 06:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Look here?
    This is close: http://www.wlea.org/index.html
    I disregarded that one as it's a union. There is no plausible reason the DOJ would contact a union about a law like Act 35.

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    Concealed carry training not yet known
    by WRN Contributor on September 6, 2011

    in Politics & Government

    A law allowing people to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin takes effect in less than two months. However, the training requirements needed to qualify for a permit are still largely unknown.

    David Zibolski with the Wisconsin Department of Justice says they are still waiting for the governorís office to weigh in before writing the administrative rules.
    Zibolski says a scope statement outlining their intentions has been sent to Governor Scott Walker. He says DOJ is still waiting for it to come back with final approval or any changes made by the governor.

    Zibolski says a few types of training have already been approved. For instance, hunter safety courses count, even if you received your certificate decades ago. He says residents who passed the course and wish to use that to qualify for a permit should be able to contact the DNR to obtain a copy of their certificate, if they no longer have one.

    Zibolski believes the rules will be finalized by mid-October. The first day state residents can apply to receive a concealed carry permit is November 1st.

    AUDIO: Paul Knoff reports (1:08)

  7. #7
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    "... a few types of training have already been approved" Type of training is not the same as content. I don't think DOJ can say much about content other than to say that it must somehow be related to firearms.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they're still grappling with the on-line "type" of training issue.

    As far as the WLEA having any say in the matter, I can't see where they would come into play except, perhaps, regarding the DOJ making rules for the instructors that it will certify (who will all be LEOs.)
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Po-lock View Post
    I talked briefly to a lady at NWTC today about the CC class they will offer this it what I understand is happening right now:

    1) The DOJ already sent out guidelines of what the training needs to consist of and are waiting for Law Enforcement Acency Association approval which is expected to happen somewhere between Sept. 21-24.

    The DOJ cannot set guidlines of what training need to consist of, outside curriculum provided by DOJ Certified Instructors. The can recommend training curriculum. They admit to this in the FAQ that they realeased.

    2) A bill is being written to NOW to define exactly will qualify as training and it should be done by Nov. 1

    A bill it being written? Well, if even so, it would still have to go through committee, Senate and Assembly, the Gov. before it could be implemented.

    I asked her if she was familiar with Act 35 and she said she was and I explained the law is already clearly written. She agreed and said the school has to wait for the DOJ rules in order to put together a class.

    NO, they don't. They can provide whatever trainig curriculum the want to, and if they want to wait for the DOJ to recommend curriculum, that is their perogative. UNLESS their instructors are infact LEO's certified bythe DOJ, then theyDO have to follow curriculum mandated by the DOJ.

    Again, this was a quick conversation and this is my understanding of what I was told.

    Has anyone heard of these things happening ?
    I replied within the quote.

  9. #9
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Straight from the DOJ-FAQ

    IMPORTANT NOTE: DOJ is currently in the rule-making process and is evaluating what information will be required on the certificate to substantiate proof of training. We will not have specifics until the rule-making process is complete.

    Does DOJ have a recommended firearms training course?

    DOJ will develop a suggested concealed weapons training course to the extent possible under its statutory authority. The program is not required for programs not conducted by DOJ certified instructors.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Da Po-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    I replied within the quote.
    Yup, I agree and discussed the very same replies to her as you stated.

    She did not know any AB or SB numbers but she basically agreed with us.

    She did tell me the instructors are DOJ approved (they are or were GBPD, I know one of them) and she also said live fire WILL be required. Again I explained the written law and she said that is what they will require but "probably no one will fail".

    I really don't know what to think of all of this, clearly the law is already appearing to be twisted in more ways than one.

    I only called to find out info. about classes for a buddy of mine and was kind of hoping NWTC would be more knowledgable about this. Although the facility I called is the training center for the LE program so their opinion may be slanted that a way.
    Any one of you lily livered, flea bitten, bow legged varmints care to slap leather with me?

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  11. #11
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    The woman at the NWTC wwould have been better off just keeping her muth shut instead of demonstrating her lack of knowledge. Amoung other errors she he said the DoJ had already certified instructors? How can it. Act 35 doesn't go into effect until Nov. 1. The DoJ doesn't have authority to certify instructors for CC until then. I'm not talking about firearms training in general. I'm talking about certification by DoJ of instructors qualified to provide training for concealed carry under the auspices of Act 35.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 09-06-2011 at 09:22 PM.

  12. #12
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    DOJ certifes LEO instructors and they meet all the requirements of the law along with NRA instructors and I would guess hunter safety instructors.

    I would think they would require you to send with each applcation a copy of your instructor cert. Or they could maintain a list of certifed instructors ans issue a ID number that you would just have to sign and put the number on.

    There are many ways to do this hopefully they well take the smiple route. You can bet the Tech schools would like to grap all the bussness if they could. They well develop a course allong DOJ guide lines and might inclued live fire but wouldn't have to.

    The DOJ course can not have live fire in it according to Act 35. I belive it well be heavey on the law and safety with some when to shoot and when not to shoot training. One should beable to that in a 4 HR course.

    I sure there is a committe working on it now DOJ has lots of trainers available that could pull from to develop a course they do it all the time for LEO training in the state.

    My Guess you well see the course around mid Oct.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    DOJ certifes LEO instructors and they meet all the requirements of the law along with NRA instructors and I would guess hunter safety instructors.
    Please provide a cite. The only agency that I see that certifies instructors is the Wisconsin Department of Regulation and Licensing. I cannot find where DOJ certifies ANYONE today.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please provide a cite. The only agency that I see that certifies instructors is the Wisconsin Department of Regulation and Licensing. I cannot find where DOJ certifies ANYONE today.
    The Training and Standards Bureau at DOJ certifies police instructors, among other things.

    Regulation and Licensing certifies instructors for private security guards.
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    (b) 1. The department shall certify instructors for the
    purposes of par. (a) 1. c. and e. and shall maintain a list
    of instructors that it certifies. To be certified by the
    department as an instructor, a person must meet all of the
    following criteria:
    a. Be qualified under sub. (3) to carry a concealed
    weapon.
    b. Be able to demonstrate the ability and knowledge
    required for providing firearms safety and training.
    2. The department may not require firing live
    ammunition to meet the training requirements under par.
    (a).

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    Shotgun is right Training and standards in DOJ does certifies Law Enforcement trainers.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    The woman at the NWTC wwould have been better off just keeping her muth shut instead of demonstrating her lack of knowledge. Amoung other errors she he said the DoJ had already certified instructors? How can it. Act 35 doesn't go into effect until Nov. 1. The DoJ doesn't have authority to certify instructors for CC until then. I'm not talking about firearms training in general. I'm talking about certification by DoJ of instructors qualified to provide training for concealed carry under the auspices of Act 35.
    The DOJ has been certifying LEO's as instructors long before SB93 was ever introduced.

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    Can't you guys read. I acknowledged that the DoJ certifies firearm instructors. What I said is that the DoJ can't certify instructors to provide training for concealed carry at this time. The criteria and curriculum of what the training consists of hasn't been determined yet. It probably won't be determined until just before or on Nov.1. In fact statute 941.23 is still in effect until Nov. 1. It forbids the carry of concealed firearms by private citizens until that time. It is unlikely that the DoJ will certify any LEO to train people for concealed carry as long as the current prohibition is in effect. It is probable that instructors that now train cops on how to handle firearms will be certified to train civilians on how to carry concealed firearms but I doubt that any will be certified until after Nov 1 when the total of Act 35 becomes law. Which will include the modifications to 941.23.

    My post was in response to post #10 where supposedly it was said that the instructors were already DoJ approved. They may be approved to provide training to cops but they are not yet certified by the DoJ to provide training for concealed carry.

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    We were responding to Pauls post about LEO instructors.

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    Just for information. I don't necessarily endorse it.



    http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...rmit-under-law
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 09-07-2011 at 10:06 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Phucking propaganda!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 09-08-2011 at 12:18 AM.

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    There is the course that meets the law so you can get a ccw.

    Then there are courses that teach you on how to shoot and use a weapon.

    They might not be the same one.

  23. #23
    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    After reading the article and the comments I find it ironic the people who are going teach the CC classes either can't read or comprehend what they read . I am no scholar but Act 35 is pretty clear on training requirements.
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