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Thread: LEO Traffic Encounter

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    LEO Traffic Encounter

    I was on my way home from lodge tonight and had a car speeding past me, cutting me and others off, tailgating, etc. on HWY 52. I was trying to see his plate in the distance and missed a light turning to red as he turned off onto the frontage road. As I went over the I25 bridge the red and blue lights came in my rear view. I swore and signaled to move over. I had to go through a couple more intersections to get over the bridge to where there was space to pull over.

    I pulled my wallet out and rolled down my window. The officer approached and asked if I knew why he pulled me over.

    I said, "Yeah, I think I missed that red back there," and handed my license and CHP over.
    "Where are you headed?"
    "Home."
    "Do you have a current registration and insurance card?"
    "In the glove. My pistol's in there."
    "Ok."

    I opened the glove and picked up my pistol by the grip and set it on the seat. I handed him the cards and put my gun back in the glove. He looked them over and asked, "Do you have a current insurance card?" I went to reach for the glove again, but didn't want to keep moving my gun back and forth.

    "When did that expire?" I asked.
    "August."
    I moved my gun and looked in the glove but didn't see another card.
    "No, it must be in my mail. I haven't seen it, though. I'll have to check."

    He left to go back to his car. I commenced muttering to myself about paying attention and higher insurance, etc. etc. I saw another set of lights coming up in the mirror and grumbled at the thought of a long, unnecessary detention from a cover car. I saw it was a motorcycle LEO. He slowed down and then moved past us. A few minutes later, I saw the shadow of the first LEO approaching.

    "Ok, Mr. ------, I'm going to let you have a warning, but it'd be a four point violation."
    "Thank you, I appreciate that."
    "Just stop next time. That's the number one cause of accidents and that's a high incident intersection."
    "Ok, not making excuses, but did you see that Camaro that turned left onto the frontage road?"
    "The Mustang? Greyish color?"
    "Yeah, he cut me off and a few others along 52. That distracted me. Not making an excuse, but letting you know."
    "Ok, have a good night.

    All in all, not a bad encounter. When I got home, I called my insurance's 24 hour number. I confirmed my policy is current and got current cards emailed.

    And countdown to out-of-staters calling me an idiot for my driving, talking to cops, gun handling, insurance, etc. in 5...4...3...2...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    SNIP And countdown to out-of-staters calling me an idiot for my driving, talking to cops, gun handling, insurance, etc. in 5...4...3...2...
    I know of at least one motorist killed because he reached for a gun in a glove box. The cop at the driver's window OK'd the driver moving the gun. It was the second cop who had walked up on the passenger side, who didn't hear the conversation between the first cop and the driver about the gun, who shot and killed the motorist.

    Philip Van Cleave, president of Virginia Citizens Defense League tells about the incident. Since he is also a former cop, I tend to give more weight to his suggestions when dealing with cops and guns.

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    I'd have left in on the seat in plain view rather than risk touching it again until after he cleared me to leave.

    Other than that, you handled that one quite well, mahk.
    Last edited by since9; 09-07-2011 at 03:00 AM.
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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I know of at least one motorist killed because he reached for a gun in a glove box. The cop at the driver's window OK'd the driver moving the gun. It was the second cop who had walked up on the passenger side, who didn't hear the conversation between the first cop and the driver about the gun, who shot and killed the motorist.
    Howdy Amigo!
    That's the nice thing about Colorado cops. They don't tend to be trigger happy morons!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    I keep my insurance, and registration in a envelope. The envelpoe stays on the drivers visor.
    If I get pulled over my ID will be in my hand with the ins and registration.
    A little pre- thought could save a person a whole lot of fail.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    I keep my insurance, and registration in a envelope. The envelpoe stays on the drivers visor.
    If I get pulled over my ID will be in my hand with the ins and registration.
    A little pre- thought could save a person a whole lot of fail.
    Howdy Mr. Redenck!
    (I ain't making fun of your handle, but noticed that's how it's spelled as quoted from above!)
    Anyhow,.... That's a great suggestion for keeping information handy for a traffic stop, should one occur, without having to dig around for the stuff.

    In fact, I think in times past, I've seen little gizmos that attach to the visor specifically designed for that purpose. I haven't seen one in years, but remember them from my childhood. My mother always had one in her car, as did my uncles and aunts.
    I actually don't know if those are still around, but could serve that purpose quite nicely. In fact, I will see if I can get a couple myself for our own cars.

    Great suggestion, and thanks for your contribution to this thread!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    I keep my insurance, and registration in a envelope. The envelpoe stays on the drivers visor.
    If I get pulled over my ID will be in my hand with the ins and registration.
    A little pre- thought could save a person a whole lot of fail.
    I just keep license, registration, and insurance all together in my wallet. Course I spend most of my time on top on my motorcycle that doesn't have a glovebox; but it's damn handy in the car too. I also don't have to worry about someone breaking into it and finding a little piece of paper that tells them where I live.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I also don't have to worry about someone breaking into it and finding a little piece of paper that tells them where I live.
    Howdy Amigo!
    My first impression was "Good points!". But then again, anyone sufficiently motivated in finding out where anybody lives can easily accomplish that with the number from their license plate. All it takes is two dollars at DMV, and voila... they got your address!

    When it comes to carrying my wallet, I seldom do. I carry an urban carry bag (Don'cha dare call it a purse!!! LOL) and it has all my junk in there. Since I have a lot of stuff in my life support system, it just ain't convenient to rely on pockets, which can be picked, BTW. Or worse, can fall out. Yeah, I know... there are wallets made to prevent that sort of thing, but still... I'd rather carry my bag.

    Still, guess different things work for different folks! Something about strokes, I guess.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Mr. Redenck!
    (I ain't making fun of your handle, but noticed that's how it's spelled as quoted from above!)
    Anyhow,.... That's a great suggestion for keeping information handy for a traffic stop, should one occur, without having to dig around for the stuff.

    In fact, I think in times past, I've seen little gizmos that attach to the visor specifically designed for that purpose. I haven't seen one in years, but remember them from my childhood. My mother always had one in her car, as did my uncles and aunts.
    I actually don't know if those are still around, but could serve that purpose quite nicely. In fact, I will see if I can get a couple myself for our own cars.

    Great suggestion, and thanks for your contribution to this thread!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    I spelled it that way on purpose and yes I know its wrong but I have a real good reason for it. HeHE
    That ID and infromation procedure was actually explained tome by a LEO friend. There are a few ways LEO can get in you vehicle without a warrant.
    One thing they do when pulling you over is ask you to step ot of the vehicle. If you leave your ID or information in the vehicle that gives them cause to enter. They dont have to let you get back in there so have everything handy so they have no excuse.
    Myself, Im not a person who wants LEOs to know if I have a gun in the vehicle. When im in the vehicle the handgun goes in the console and I will not provide a Concealed Carry permit eithere. " No need to if the gun is not on you".
    I dont like reading about LEO encounters where the officer disarmed soemone and made a big deal out of it. I dont like the idea of some LEO unloading my handgun either. " Thats why im not giving any information about what I have in there". It is illegal to lie to the cops but it is not illegal to have firearms in my truck. So thats why I simply say " I have nothing illegal in the vehilce" . No lie, just the truth.
    I have told a few LEOs about the guns in my vehicle before and it never pleased me to see their reaction.
    I simply think its better for both parties to avoid unecessary reactions.

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    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    I keep my insurance, and registration in a envelope. The envelpoe stays on the drivers visor.
    If I get pulled over my ID will be in my hand with the ins and registration.
    A little pre- thought could save a person a whole lot of fail.
    Ha! This is very similar to what I've been doing ever since I started carrying. When I get in my car, I put my wallet in my cup holder on the center console, and my proof of insurance and registration is tucked under the passenger side visor. I haven't had to test this system out yet, thankfully, but if pulled over my plan is to roll down my window and wait with both hands visible on the steering wheel. When the officer approaches and asks for my information, I'll verbally explain where both items are and then slowly retrieve them and hand them over. I never need to open the glove box or put my hand anywhere out of the officer's sight. Bottom line, the safer I make the officer feel, the safer I will feel (and maybe I'll get a few brownie points for my thoughful politeness out of the situation.)
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Passenger visor is a good idea. I think I'll start doing that. I'm not going to carry them with me because DW and I trade cars too often. As far as handing over the CHP, there's as good a chance as not that it'll come up when he runs my DL and he'll ask about it anyway. If it gets the stop over sooner, I don't mind. I think this stop exemplifies that LEOs in CO appreciate LACs if they're not being ****s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Amigo!
    That's the nice thing about Colorado cops. They don't tend to be trigger happy morons!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Oh? So, in Colorado we can all go reaching for the gun in the glove box with complete disregard for those Colorado cops who are quick on the trigger?

    How about those Colorado non-trigger-happy cops who think their partner may not be able to see the glove box when he is standing behind the door pillar? And, don't hear the conversation between their partner and the driver because of traffic noise?
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-07-2011 at 10:27 PM.

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    Leo Traffic Encounter - Licenses, Insurance, and Title

    I keep my Title and Insurance documentation in the pocket of a DVD carrier that is attached to the drivers side sun visor. My drivers license and Concealed Weapons permit reside in a college id holder in my shirt pocket like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YH3NDU This is so I do not need to reach around my gun for anything an officer is likely to ask for.

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    I think that's a very good idea keeping current records in the visor! I'm going to fix this tonight! Clip my current registration and insurance to my visor. I keep my car clean, just not my glovebox with old ins, registration papers. Btw, what do you guys say to LEO if you're OC'ing your sidearm in your car here in CO? I do know my car is an extension of my home, so do I still need to let LEO know I'm armed on a simple traffic stop?

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    hmm...

    I tend to get all my papers out and in my hand before I stop my vehicle. Gun or no gun in the glove, I don't want the cop or his partner to even see me reach for anything. Everything they need is in my hand before they exit the vehicle.

    Now if we could all not drive like a holes we wouldn't have to worry about this XD


    Off topic-ish; my last ticket was running a red light at midnight. As I run through the red the lanes to my left and right just getting their green both had police cruisers sitting there..... I made this cartoon just now to show you what happened...

    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    hmm...

    I tend to get all my papers out and in my hand before I stop my vehicle. Gun or no gun in the glove, I don't want the cop or his partner to even see me reach for anything. Everything they need is in my hand before they exit the vehicle.

    Now if we could all not drive like a holes we wouldn't have to worry about this XD


    Off topic-ish; my last ticket was running a red light at midnight. As I run through the red the lanes to my left and right just getting their green both had police cruisers sitting there..... I made this cartoon just now to show you what happened...

    LOL, that was a cartoon that cracked me up! Haha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I tend to get all my papers out and in my hand before I stop my vehicle. Gun or no gun in the glove, I don't want the cop or his partner to even see me reach for anything. Everything they need is in my hand before they exit the vehicle.
    I thought of that but getting my wallet out my pocket is always tricky. I didn't want to be mid-reach in the glove when he arrived at my window. Visor is sounding pretty good.

    I made this cartoon just now to show you what happened...
    Forget to watch the Chris Rock inforcational video? Careful with that cartoon. 101.1 FM around here is "KOSI", the easy listening listening station.
    Last edited by mahkagari; 09-07-2011 at 11:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I thought of that but getting my wallet out my pocket is always tricky. I didn't want to be mid-reach in the glove when he arrived at my window. Visor is sounding pretty good.
    Not to mention that the last thing you want an officer to see through the rear window as he's approaching your vehicle from behind is you fumbling around with something unknown in your glovebox or behind your back. That's why I choose to sit with my hands on the wheel and wait until I can explain to the officer exactly what I'm doing and where I'm reaching.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    That is why I said I have these things ready BEFORE my car even stops. He can't walk up to my window as I'm still slowing down to a stop. My wallet always sits in the console, I hate sitting on it.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  20. #20
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh? So, in Colorado we can all go reaching for the gun in the glove box with complete disregard for those Colorado cops who are quick on the trigger?

    How about those Colorado non-trigger-happy cops who think their partner may not be able to see the glove box when he is standing behind the door pillar? And, don't hear the conversation between their partner and the driver because of traffic noise?
    I prefer to say to the cop "fill your hand!" as I reach for my gun here in Colorado. Just to have a little fun with him...of course, you Virginians are too cultured to do that...
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Leo Traffic Encounter - Licenses, Insurance, and Title

    The last thing you want the police to see you do is moving stuff around in the car even before the car is stopped. The police WILL think that you are hiding drugs or getting a weapon.

    As soon as I have my vehicle stopped, I roll down the window and have my hands on the top of the steering wheel with my ID Holder containing my CWP and my drivers license open with the CWP facing the window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Amigo!
    That's the nice thing about Colorado cops. They don't tend to be trigger happy morons!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Unless they're in Denver. Just thought that should be added haha.
    "The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses."

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLittleMan View Post
    Unless they're in Denver. Just thought that should be added haha.
    I think it's Aurora PD who tend to be trigger happy for open carry of cell phones. DPD will beat your ass for sneezing, but haven't been shooting people lately. TMK. Don't take my word for it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Regardless of where all that stuff is in the car, I'm not opening the glove box. Just in case they haven't decided whether to give me a ticket or not, they really don't need to see all the other speeding tickets I've been given.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRuger View Post
    The last thing you want the police to see you do is moving stuff around in the car even before the car is stopped. The police WILL think that you are hiding drugs or getting a weapon.

    As soon as I have my vehicle stopped, I roll down the window and have my hands on the top of the steering wheel with my ID Holder containing my CWP and my drivers license open with the CWP facing the window.
    I feel that people are getting the impression that grabbing a sheet of paper out of the glove box is the equivalent to climbing into the passenger seat and working a bo-flex machine. Sure, the cop could be thinking that you're hiding something, but lets take a common sense approach. If you're a cop pulling someone over is it far fetched to think that maybe they're just grabbing their registration? Where is the most common place to place your registration?

    It's a car.... what ever you could be hiding isn't going anywhere far.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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