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Thread: Open Carry VS Concealed Carry Why?

  1. #1
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    Open Carry VS Concealed Carry Why?

    To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC. Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

    So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

    I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

    I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

    Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
    Qilvin-LEO

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    I OC whenever the city/state I find myself in allows it. Now, I am looking into getting an OOS CCL from Florida but I will NOT be concealing my weapon. I am only getting the CCL so that I can OC in those cities/states that I find myself in that require you to have a CCL before you can OC.

    As to the why?

    First off, its our constitutional right. If I had the cash and the time, I would never do anything BUT OC and fight and city/state that wanted to take away my 2nd amendment right. The right to bear ones firearms in public was once a sign of a socially responsible gentleman and citizen, how its been twisted to now be percieved as something only police do with the addition of the hysterics some people find themselves in when confronted with a gun (gun does NOT equal criminal, but to some people it seems to, unless a police uniform is attatched to said gun) I do not know, but it is reprehensible.

    Secondly, I OC so as to raise awareness as to guns in general. I remind anyone who finds themselves unconfortable about the gun on my hip or ask a question that pertains to WHY I carry said firearm that the percentage of people carrying is around 1 percent. That means that 1 out of every 100 people is carrying a firearm and wouldn't they rather see the weapon, see that it is not being waved in a threatening or angry manner, see that the person carrying the weapon is acting in a normal and safe manner, than look about you constantly wondering if the 1 out of 100 that you meet to day is someone who is concealing their weapon whether by permit or not? In other words, gentlemen and responsible citizens OC in my eyes, men and women who know their constitutional rights and will do their very best to keep everyones rights from being taken away from them.

    The third reason pertains to comfort. I am not about to go out and purchase a new wardrobe of pants that are a size or two larger so that I can carry a holster and gun inside my waisteband, or so that I can carry across my thigh, not to mention the discomfort such carrying has for me. I find shoulder rigs unwieldy and I dislike the orientation of my gun in them. I suppose I could always wear a vest or something so that I can carry with my paddle holster and have my weapon concealed, but I do not wish to saddle myself with extra layers when I do not need to. OC is comfortable for my body type and it is the most natural way for me to carry.

    Lastly, I OC because I truly believe that an armed society is a polite society. If personal anecdotes will count, I work at a business that is nest to a large lake and has three bars within walking distance. I get a large number of drunks of all ages who come into where I work to inquire about rooms (I am putting this mildly... I have seen way too many older women's breasts for one lifetime, older women who are hoping that seeing their breasts will get me to give them a discount). Now, I pay close attention to people and this past weekend I noticed clearly that my OCied firearm made everyone far more polite than they would have been. What was just seconds before cat-calling, cursing, and general 20-something drunkeness and attitude became polite young men and women sho attempted to stand up straighter, not weave so much in my presence, and were considerate. They actually minded no smoking signs. When asked a few times if I was a cop, and I responded with "Nope." their attitudes and politeness only changed even more for the better. Now, I do not know if they thought I was some sort of security or what, and, truthfully, trying to get them to understand was beyond their mental capacity due to their inebriated state.

    So, those are the reasons I OC. I wish far more people OCied.

  3. #3
    Activist Member N605TW's Avatar
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    When I first started to carry a firearm I did not have a permit / license. Open carry was the only option I had if I wanted to be armed. I am more comfortable both physically and mentally carrying openly.
    When a law enforcement officer sees someone will ill intent he/she has a duty to confront that person. The officer has a high probability of getting in a physical altercation. I am not a law enforcement officer, as such I have the luxury of avoiding situations if possible. The probability of me getting into an altercation is lower than that of an officer. I don’t feel the level of retention on my weapon needs to be as high as an officer’s. With that said I carry in a retention holster and try to be vigilant of my surroundings.
    I do not pretend to speak for anyone else but I feel there is a common goal of educating people that a firearm is a tool and the mere presents of one is not cause for alarm. It can be awful difficult to get people accustom to the idea of ordinary people that are armed if they can’t see the firearms.
    I believe there is a deterrent effect in carrying in the open. If given the options of an armed target and an unarmed target I feel the unarmed target will be attacked over the armed one. The counter augment to this is a visible firearm will make you the first target but I don’t see any merit in this. It all boils down to personal choice.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I know the OP doesn't wish to entertain posts where responders have said something to the effect of, "it is my right". Well frankly, it's rather hard to ignore this for a number of reasons and here is one which few ever consider.

    Police officers, when acting in their official capacity, do not carry firearms because it is their right. They do so because we allow them to do this in order for them to carry out their duties which we have determined to be necessary. We, on the other hand, do carry because it is our right.

    Now with that said, there are a host of reasons why people OC. For me, it is not a political statement (I live in Virginia where the carrying of a defensive arm is a non-issue) but rather somewhat of a physical necessity. I have osteoarthritis in both knees so I can no longer run or fight as I was once able to do. Therefore a visible arm on my side can act as a deterrent to those who might wish to do me harm. A sign, if you will, that says, "find someone else today". Anyone who carries must always practice heightened situational awareness and those who choose to OC, even more so.

    In the end, whether someone OC's or CC's (I do both but OC more frequently), is their choice and theirs alone. Doing so responsibly and with awareness of your surroundings, coupled with a positive and friendly demeanor, goes a long way towards one's safety and their projection as a responsible citizen.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post
    To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC. Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

    So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

    I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

    I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

    Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
    Qilvin-LEO
    You're new to this site and have asked a reasonable question -- even though you seem to casually dismiss one of the most important reasons why many of us Openly Carry, that OC affirms our God-given, Constitutionally-supported right of self defense.

    One of the special aspects of this site is the requirement to cite specific incidents or laws to support a claim. In your case, you seem to be suggesting that there is a high risk of an OC'r being disarmed. This is a position that many anti-gun people use to argue against OC, yet there is nothing in real life to suggest that this happens even rarely, if at all. To support this central point of your question, can you provide a cite to incidents such as this that would support your opinion?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    ...no one has mentioned faster draw?

    LEOs have the luxury of immunity from brandishing and assault charges. They can draw their weapon any time they "feel" the situation "might" be dangerous -- they won't get in trouble for this. Joe citizen on the other hand can't get away with that.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    In a decision by the Alabama Supreme Court, Reid vs. State, 1840, concealed carry was characterized as an "evil practice". An openly carried sidearm was, in the same decision, characterized as defensive in nature.

    In my experience, an openly carried sidearm is a fairly powerful deterrent to most criminals. Not only that, but it is hard as Hades to dress comfortably for concealed carry in Alabama's hot and humid summers. Especially not to conceal my choices for carry weapons.

    I am an older man, not in as good a shape as I was when I was a young soldier, and I need that deterrent factor. There is no way that I could get into a fist fight or "rassling" match with a younger man and win unless I got in either the first strike or an unexpected, lucky strike.

    Due to the laws in my state, I have a "Pistol License" which states on its face that it is a "License to carry a revolver or pistol concealed on the person, or carry a revolver or pistol in a vehicle..." The latter part of that statement is just about the only reason I have that license.

    The two holsters I use would make it very difficult for someone else to remove my weapon if I were still conscious. Situational awareness is the factor that is going to make it almost impossible for someone to get close enough to even get their hand on the weapon.

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    First, I would like you to go and look for cases where a citizen and not an LEO had someone even attempt to grab their weapon. Once you've done that then look at the cases where the person was successful in gaining control of the weapon. I can tell you right now that you will find so few cases (I think so far this forum has yet to find one successful "gun grab," less than 5 attempted gun grabs, and only a few cases of where someone that was OCing was robbed, but weapon retention wouldn't of helped that) that it is a statistical improbability for a citizen to lose their weapon. So while I would recommend anyone that OCs to have at least a level II holster it isn't that big of a deal for citizens.

    Now as for why to OC even if we can CC. There are a several reasons which I'll list out in bullet format to make it easier to see (numbering isn't nessecarily in order of importance).

    1) Deterrance. I carry a weapon to be able to protect myself and my family if needed, but I hope it never is. While I'm not going to go dig for all the cites, when criminals see someone armed they almost always look for a different target. So by OCing it actually further reduces my chances of needing to draw my weapon.

    2) Accessability/Speed of Draw. If I need to use my weapon then I want to be able to get to it quickly, and simply put OCing is the fastest way to draw a weapon.

    3) I don't want to look like a victim. When one CCs they look just like any other potential victim. My goal is to dissuade criminals from targetting me and not looking like a potential victim helps with that.

    4) I'm not a ninja. By CCing you have to attempt to ambush your ambusher in order to use your weapon. And that is just something I'm not interested in doing.

    5) It's my right. A right not exercised is effectively a right lost.

    6) Informing the public. By OCing it shows the general public that bad things don't magically happen when a gun is present and it helps to dispel the various gun myths that have been perpetrated by the government, police, hollywood, and the media.

    7) Bad guys almost exclusively CC. Why do I want to be sneaky about having a weapon when I have nothing to hide and just appear like them? I mean when I'm CCing I have to constantly be worried about if it's showing or if I'm printing, etc.

    Those are the reasons I can think of right now. Also below are two links to some good info and they give plenty of cites for where their info came from

    http://guncite.com/wild_west_myth.html - The site is "guncite.com" and it has a bunch of good info, but this particular article is good for showing how the "wild west" was actually a safer place than the "civilized" world.

    http://gunfacts.info/ - This site has a ton of info and is designed to help dispel myths by using actual data from the government combined with logic and proper breakdown of what the data actually means. Their newest version is 6.0
    Last edited by Aknazer; 09-07-2011 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Forgot about CCing generally being a BG trait

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    OP does your department require you to be certified with your off duty weapon? If so do you train with firearm concealed? Does your department require you to carry off duty? If so do they require that the weapon be concealed? If performing protection or duties that encompass softened attire does your department prefer concealed or open carry? Do you personally have issues as a LEO with law abiding citizens openly carrying a handgun? Do you feel you are bias because of your job?

    Nothing personal I was a LEO many moons ago. Yes we were required to armed off duty, and yes we were required to be concealed, though I usually ignored both of these stipulations. I had as much right to be unarmed off duty as I have a right to be armed as a citizen. Yes we were required to certify with our off duty weapon, and yes it was drawing from concealed on the range.

    As others have pointed out I do not have to apprehend only defend myself, my open carry is part of that defense. In all honesty drawing from concealed if your poop is already in the wind, it has just been flushed before you ever get a shot as a civilian. As a police officer you have the option to draw before you are actually in imminent danger, we do not have that option. I can't imagine a bad guy honoring a time out while you get your weapon out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post
    To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC.
    The Right is to "keep and bear arms." Arms can be borne either openly or concealed. Many areas, it is not legal to conceal without a permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO
    Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

    So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

    I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

    I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".
    Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
    Qilvin-LEO
    It IS "my right" to carry. It is my choice as to how. In Nevada, unless I apply for and receive a permit to conceal, my ONLY choice is to OC.

    In the winter, OC is difficult due to clothing.
    In the summer, CC is difficult due to clothing.

    Can you cite instances where OCers have been disarmed because they did OC?
    Last edited by wrightme; 09-07-2011 at 11:46 AM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Can you cite instances where OCers have been disarmed because they did OC?
    That's easy, just look at all of the California (e) checks, or most other encounters with LE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    That's easy, just look at all of the California (e) checks, or most other encounters with LE!
    ROFL!

    But then all of his "holier-than-thou" retention training is no proof against that.......
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Why do police officers drive marked cars? Why do they wear uniforms and badges? Why do they openly carry firearms? Why not just have all LEO drive unmarked cars, wear civilian clothes (undercover) and carry concealed?

    I would respectfully suggest studying a defensive tactic called deterrence.

    If just one criminal sees my gun, and decides, "Why in hell would I attack this person who plainly has the ability to shoot me, when I can get exactly the same results by waiting two minutes for him to leave, or I can go down the street one block to the next convenience store where there isn't a guy with a gun that I know about?" then I have spared myself and my family the trauma of the attack, the self defense shooting, and the following possible court trials, civil and criminal. If I can increase the chances of deterring the crime from being committed against me and my family, then why WOULDN'T I take advantage of that?!?

    It makes no sense to me to NOT take advantage of the deterrent affect of open carrying. Criminals don't need to attack armed citizens to obtain guns. It's much eaiser for them to steal the money from unarmed citizens and buy them, or to pick up guns left in bathrooms and on top of cars by police officers (no offense, just reality). There is no real world evidence or examples to suggest that open carrying presents any greater risk to Joe Citizen than concealed carrying does. Concealed carrying has ZERO chance of deterring a criminal attack. The odds are in favor of deterrence if the criminal sees the gun prior to the attack.
    Last edited by NavyLCDR; 09-07-2011 at 12:50 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Felons conceal carry. (and so do lawful folks with permits)

    Lawful citizens engaged in peaceful activities open carry. Criminals and felons never open carry (with very, very extremely rare exceptions)

    I'd like to ask the OP why he feels safer or wishes it so that he'd be in the company of people with concealed firearms and not know. Isn't this a 'head in the sand' approach?

    I suggest you read a little Kurt Vonnegut "Harrison Bergeron" comes to mind. It seems to me that LEOs don't like other people having parity so they want them to be handicapped by concealing:

    In the short story, George Bergeron, is a near genius, but since George's intelligence is way above normal, he is forced to wear a handicap radio in his ear that sends out a sharp noise every twenty seconds or so, to prevent George from taking unfair advantage of his brain.

    Let us not tread down this path, m'kay?
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post

    I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

    Qilvin-LEO
    Okay, let me give you an answer that is more down your alley. I see thought you didn't want it and you got plenty of "its my right" (which it is)

    Qilvin, open carry makes more sense. That is it. I do not open carry because I am in florida. The only time I can is at my home, grilling, cutting grass, etc. The conceal carry laws make it near impossible for my wife to carry a gun in a caliber she feels comfortable with. If my tiny wife wants to carry a full size 1911 she should be able to, but she can't. Because she can't conceal it she is considered a criminal in florida if she open carries it.

    That is why. It makes more sense. Did I mention it is HOT AS BALLS HERE? God forbid I just wear a t-shirt and shorts because then you can see my gun an I'm instantly a criminal for open carrying. WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE!?!?!?

    That is why officer. We The People have common sense on where a "bad place" to open carry would be and vice versa. But just walking the dog with my wife in the panhandle is a pain in the ass because it's hot as balls and I have to wear another shirt to cover my gun so that I'm not a criminal. God forbid anyone sees me with a gun! THEY MIGHT THINK WE ARE IN A FREE COUNTRY OR SOMETHING!?!?! NOOOOOOO


    That is all. I hope this helped as I avoided the IT'S MY RIGHT (which it SHOULD BE, but we have no rights in this police state/country. We have unconstitutional laws that wouldn't mean a thing if it wasn't for the men and women of America's law enforcement!)


    EDIT:

    Hypocrisy

    As active duty military I can open carry a Beretta 92 on my thigh to defend my government in Afghanistan. As active duty military if I open carry a Beretta 92 on my tight to defend my family or myself I will be arrested by officer Quilvin.
    Last edited by Schlitz; 09-07-2011 at 03:07 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    EDIT:

    Hypocrisy

    As active duty military I can open carry a Beretta 92 on my thigh to defend my government in Afghanistan. As active duty military if I open carry a Beretta 92 on my tight to defend my family or myself I will be arrested by officer Quilvin.
    I think another hypocrisy is how the "armed forces" can't carry so much as a pistol on base and aren't allowed to carry in uniform unless your job specifically calls for it like security forces.

  17. #17
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    I think another hypocrisy is how the "armed forces" can't carry so much as a pistol on base and aren't allowed to carry in uniform unless your job specifically calls for it like security forces.
    I certainly hope this is looked at after Carson City shooting. During time of war most soldiers should armed. If we can't trust them with a gun then something is wrong. Especially considering it is the most professional military in the world.

  18. #18
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    First, I would like you to go and look for cases where a citizen and not an LEO had someone even attempt to grab their weapon. Once you've done that then look at the cases where the person was successful in gaining control of the weapon. I can tell you right now that you will find so few cases (I think so far this forum has yet to find one successful "gun grab," less than 5 attempted gun grabs, and only a few cases of where someone that was OCing was robbed, but weapon retention wouldn't of helped that) that it is a statistical improbability for a citizen to lose their weapon. So while I would recommend anyone that OCs to have at least a level II holster it isn't that big of a deal for citizens.

    Now as for why to OC even if we can CC. There are a several reasons which I'll list out in bullet format to make it easier to see (numbering isn't nessecarily in order of importance).

    1) Deterrance. I carry a weapon to be able to protect myself and my family if needed, but I hope it never is. While I'm not going to go dig for all the cites, when criminals see someone armed they almost always look for a different target. So by OCing it actually further reduces my chances of needing to draw my weapon.

    2) Accessability/Speed of Draw. If I need to use my weapon then I want to be able to get to it quickly, and simply put OCing is the fastest way to draw a weapon.

    3) I don't want to look like a victim. When one CCs they look just like any other potential victim. My goal is to dissuade criminals from targetting me and not looking like a potential victim helps with that.

    4) I'm not a ninja. By CCing you have to attempt to ambush your ambusher in order to use your weapon. And that is just something I'm not interested in doing.

    5) It's my right. A right not exercised is effectively a right lost.

    6) Informing the public. By OCing it shows the general public that bad things don't magically happen when a gun is present and it helps to dispel the various gun myths that have been perpetrated by the government, police, hollywood, and the media.

    7) Bad guys almost exclusively CC. Why do I want to be sneaky about having a weapon when I have nothing to hide and just appear like them? I mean when I'm CCing I have to constantly be worried about if it's showing or if I'm printing, etc.

    Those are the reasons I can think of right now.
    That just abouts sums it up for me too! Well written.

    I much prefer open carry of the .45 to a concealed .380 here in Florida and do it as much as allowed on a daily basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I certainly hope this is looked at after Carson City shooting. During time of war most soldiers should armed. If we can't trust them with a gun then something is wrong. Especially considering it is the most professional military in the world.
    Sadly I don't see anything changes unless Congress were to get involved. I think too many base commanders are more worried about making their next rank than to look at this issue with objective eyes. It also doesn't help that when the next Ft Hood incident happens (and yes I said "when" as I'm sure there will be another shooting at some point in the future) the investigative team will come in and ask "what did you do to help prevent this from happening?" at which point the base commander will point at his no guns policy as if it actually stops people who are intent on committing crimes (since, you know, it did suuuuch a good job at Ft Hood).

    EDIT: I wonder if the OP is going to actually stop by and respond, or if this was just a drive by posting.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 09-07-2011 at 06:05 PM.

  20. #20
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I certainly hope this is looked at after Carson City shooting. During time of war most soldiers should armed. If we can't trust them with a gun then something is wrong. Especially considering it is the most professional military in the world.
    I did 21 years in the Army, and think it sucks that we can't carry on post. We can only OC in Afghanistan, and Iraq. When off post here in WA I OC almost excursively. The only time I CC is when I spend any time out in bad weather. I dress for the weather not the gun. My gun is a full size 9mm with a level II retention paddle holster which makes CC very impractical. I've been around LEO's numerous time without a word said. I have never been hassled. Also going back to the quote, there are some soldiers who shouldn't have access to guns on or off duty. I hate to say that, but it is true. So any way without claiming it is my "right", it is just more comfortable and practical.
    Also I may be responding to a possible:
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    Last edited by golddigger14s; 09-07-2011 at 06:13 PM.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I have my ccw in Kentucky so I can carry my firearm to any state that allows it.
    But I choose to open carry for multiple reasons.
    For one I see alot of signs on businesses that state "no concealed weapons allowed". If I were to be carrying concealed I would have to take my weapon off and place it in my vehicle which could cause danger to anyone else around if someone else were to get in to my vehicle.

    I also choose to open carry because I am more comfortable with doing so. I have a passive retention holster which makes it harder for me to be disarmed. But at the same time it allows me to quickly and smoothly draw my firearm if I come into a situation in where I need it. It is
    Much easier to draw from my hip then from a concealed holster or
    From my pocket.

    And my third reason to to educate the general public on firearms. Not everyone has the knowledge that it is legal to walk around with a firearm. Most people think you need to be in law enforcement or have a certain permit to do so.

  22. #22
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    Responses

    Thank you all for your feedback. I will address as many responses as possible. However, there are many individuals that have stated the same thing. FOR ALL MISSOURI POSTERS, I have responded to each of you individually on the Missouri page and therefore, will not be reposting the responses here.

    ---------------------------
    For the reason of deterrence.

    For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

    Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.

    Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.

    -----------------------------

    For the, IT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT!

    I completely agree with you. This post is in no way intended to say citizens shouldn't carried only cops should carry. If more law abiding citizens carried, there would be alot less crime. For carrying, I commend you. This post is about the reasons in which you choose to carry the firearm in plain view compared to concealed carry. We have already established that you are carrying your firearm, no need to remind me that it is your right, I understand that and completely agree with it.


    ----------------------------------

    Everyone that posted to reasons such as its hot in florida, etc, I understand that completely. Also, if it is illegal or impossible (California) to conceal carry, again Thank you for your post.

    -----------------------------------

    To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.

    If you can, I commend you on your super human speed and your ability to practice.

    ----------------------------------------

    One poster mentioned, does your department require you to carry off duty, concealed and qualification questions. My department does not require me to carry off duty, nor does it require me to carry concealed. YES, We absolutely have to qualify on our off duty weapons.


    ---------------------------------------------

    Final thoughts and crusing through to see if I missed anything.

    Alot of people have seen the LEO next to my name and assumed automatically that I am against the right to bear arms in the first place. Let me correct you on that. All law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times. The idea of this post is the reasons as to WHY you chose to OC compared to CC.
    Last edited by QilvinLEO; 09-08-2011 at 12:18 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post
    Thank you all for your feedback. I will address as many responses as possible. However, there are many individuals that have stated the same thing. FOR ALL MISSOURI POSTERS, I have responded to each of you individually on the Missouri page and therefore, will not be reposting the responses here.

    ---------------------------
    For the reason of deterrence.

    For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

    Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.

    Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.

    -----------------------------
    Seriously? You know, I was willing to actually listen to your points, then you trot that out.
    Well, unless you can also trot out what must be the countless incidents where "the open carrier was shot first." We are waiting. We have been waiting EACH TIME that homily has been trotted out.
    And for goodness sake, train the 19 year old girls how to shoot. And don't prevent them from being armed in college.....


    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO

    For the, IT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT!

    I completely agree with you. This post is in no way intended to say citizens shouldn't carried only cops should carry. If more law abiding citizens carried, there would be alot less crime. For carrying, I commend you. This post is about the reasons in which you choose to carry the firearm in plain view compared to concealed carry. We have already established that you are carrying your firearm, no need to remind me that it is your right, I understand that and completely agree with it.


    ----------------------------------
    If you understand that it is a Right, and you also must understand that in some areas it is illegal to conceal, you shouldn't even need to ask.



    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO
    Everyone that posted to reasons such as its hot in florida, etc, I understand that completely. Also, if it is illegal or impossible (California) to conceal carry, again Thank you for your post.

    -----------------------------------
    So then why bother asking?
    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO

    To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.

    If you can, I commend you on your super human speed and your ability to practice.

    ----------------------------------------
    So, you believe that the criminal will always have the drop on the other? Why? Do YOU walk around in condition white?



    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO
    One poster mentioned, does your department require you to carry off duty, concealed and qualification questions. My department does not require me to carry off duty, nor does it require me to carry concealed. YES, We absolutely have to qualify on our off duty weapons.


    ---------------------------------------------

    Final thoughts and crusing through to see if I missed anything.

    Alot of people have seen the LEO next to my name and assumed automatically that I am against the right to bear arms in the first place. Let me correct you on that. All law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times. The idea of this post is the reasons as to WHY you chose to OC compared to CC.
    It seems that none of the responses surprise you. That makes me wonder why you bothered at all......



    One GOOD reason that you didn't even address is one that is in keeping with the goals of this website. Normalize OC, and you increase your desire that "all law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times." Conceal them, and you don't normalize the bearing of firearms.
    Last edited by wrightme; 09-08-2011 at 12:29 AM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    How can you say this:
    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post
    This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.
    And then say this:
    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post
    Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.
    {snip}
    Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.
    {snip}
    To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.
    It seems that you are saying that you CC so that when you are faced with a BG with a firearm already out and leveled on you, you will then be able to put said BG into a bodybag while at the same time saying that if you OC you can never hope to win in that sort of a situation and even hint that no matter if you OC or CC you cannot win when a BG has the drop on you.

    So, I suppose I need a bit of clarification from you. When the BG has the drop on you, what do you propose?
    1. Have a weapon OCied and be ready to give it to the BG when he asks or get shot since you are the most dangerous threat,
    2. Have a weapon CCied so that the BG doesn't know you have it or get shot since you are not a threat, but risk getting shot because you are just a helpless lamb for the slaughter
    3. Something else? (if so, what)

  25. #25
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    EDITED this comment is directed at Verd.



    Quote Originally Posted by QilvinLEO View Post
    For the reason of deterrence.

    For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.



    As you can see, I believe being concealed give the possiblity of an oppurtunity to make a safe draw and shot, whereas the open carry option, the dirtbag in given example immediatly sees that your armed and destroys the threat.

    You can argue the fact that the bad guy might not see the open carried firearm because so many people dont even notice you OC carrying on a day to day basis. BUT, a criminal who is committing a crime is much more alert and focused because of the crime he is commiting. If I was him, and Open carry was popular in my area, that would be one of the first things I look for.

    Personally, I'm not going to hope he doesnt see it.
    Last edited by QilvinLEO; 09-08-2011 at 02:29 AM. Reason: added who this comment is directed at.

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