• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carry VS Concealed Carry Why?

QilvinLEO

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
46
Location
Missouri
To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC. Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
Qilvin-LEO
 

Verd

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Lampe, Missouri, United States
I OC whenever the city/state I find myself in allows it. Now, I am looking into getting an OOS CCL from Florida but I will NOT be concealing my weapon. I am only getting the CCL so that I can OC in those cities/states that I find myself in that require you to have a CCL before you can OC.

As to the why?

First off, its our constitutional right. If I had the cash and the time, I would never do anything BUT OC and fight and city/state that wanted to take away my 2nd amendment right. The right to bear ones firearms in public was once a sign of a socially responsible gentleman and citizen, how its been twisted to now be percieved as something only police do with the addition of the hysterics some people find themselves in when confronted with a gun (gun does NOT equal criminal, but to some people it seems to, unless a police uniform is attatched to said gun) I do not know, but it is reprehensible.

Secondly, I OC so as to raise awareness as to guns in general. I remind anyone who finds themselves unconfortable about the gun on my hip or ask a question that pertains to WHY I carry said firearm that the percentage of people carrying is around 1 percent. That means that 1 out of every 100 people is carrying a firearm and wouldn't they rather see the weapon, see that it is not being waved in a threatening or angry manner, see that the person carrying the weapon is acting in a normal and safe manner, than look about you constantly wondering if the 1 out of 100 that you meet to day is someone who is concealing their weapon whether by permit or not? In other words, gentlemen and responsible citizens OC in my eyes, men and women who know their constitutional rights and will do their very best to keep everyones rights from being taken away from them.

The third reason pertains to comfort. I am not about to go out and purchase a new wardrobe of pants that are a size or two larger so that I can carry a holster and gun inside my waisteband, or so that I can carry across my thigh, not to mention the discomfort such carrying has for me. I find shoulder rigs unwieldy and I dislike the orientation of my gun in them. I suppose I could always wear a vest or something so that I can carry with my paddle holster and have my weapon concealed, but I do not wish to saddle myself with extra layers when I do not need to. OC is comfortable for my body type and it is the most natural way for me to carry.

Lastly, I OC because I truly believe that an armed society is a polite society. If personal anecdotes will count, I work at a business that is nest to a large lake and has three bars within walking distance. I get a large number of drunks of all ages who come into where I work to inquire about rooms (I am putting this mildly... I have seen way too many older women's breasts for one lifetime, older women who are hoping that seeing their breasts will get me to give them a discount). Now, I pay close attention to people and this past weekend I noticed clearly that my OCied firearm made everyone far more polite than they would have been. What was just seconds before cat-calling, cursing, and general 20-something drunkeness and attitude became polite young men and women sho attempted to stand up straighter, not weave so much in my presence, and were considerate. They actually minded no smoking signs. When asked a few times if I was a cop, and I responded with "Nope." their attitudes and politeness only changed even more for the better. Now, I do not know if they thought I was some sort of security or what, and, truthfully, trying to get them to understand was beyond their mental capacity due to their inebriated state.

So, those are the reasons I OC. I wish far more people OCied.
 

N605TW

Activist Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Columbus, Ohio
When I first started to carry a firearm I did not have a permit / license. Open carry was the only option I had if I wanted to be armed. I am more comfortable both physically and mentally carrying openly.
When a law enforcement officer sees someone will ill intent he/she has a duty to confront that person. The officer has a high probability of getting in a physical altercation. I am not a law enforcement officer, as such I have the luxury of avoiding situations if possible. The probability of me getting into an altercation is lower than that of an officer. I don’t feel the level of retention on my weapon needs to be as high as an officer’s. With that said I carry in a retention holster and try to be vigilant of my surroundings.
I do not pretend to speak for anyone else but I feel there is a common goal of educating people that a firearm is a tool and the mere presents of one is not cause for alarm. It can be awful difficult to get people accustom to the idea of ordinary people that are armed if they can’t see the firearms.
I believe there is a deterrent effect in carrying in the open. If given the options of an armed target and an unarmed target I feel the unarmed target will be attacked over the armed one. The counter augment to this is a visible firearm will make you the first target but I don’t see any merit in this. It all boils down to personal choice.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
I know the OP doesn't wish to entertain posts where responders have said something to the effect of, "it is my right". Well frankly, it's rather hard to ignore this for a number of reasons and here is one which few ever consider.

Police officers, when acting in their official capacity, do not carry firearms because it is their right. They do so because we allow them to do this in order for them to carry out their duties which we have determined to be necessary. We, on the other hand, do carry because it is our right.

Now with that said, there are a host of reasons why people OC. For me, it is not a political statement (I live in Virginia where the carrying of a defensive arm is a non-issue) but rather somewhat of a physical necessity. I have osteoarthritis in both knees so I can no longer run or fight as I was once able to do. Therefore a visible arm on my side can act as a deterrent to those who might wish to do me harm. A sign, if you will, that says, "find someone else today". Anyone who carries must always practice heightened situational awareness and those who choose to OC, even more so.

In the end, whether someone OC's or CC's (I do both but OC more frequently), is their choice and theirs alone. Doing so responsibly and with awareness of your surroundings, coupled with a positive and friendly demeanor, goes a long way towards one's safety and their projection as a responsible citizen.
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC. Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
Qilvin-LEO

You're new to this site and have asked a reasonable question -- even though you seem to casually dismiss one of the most important reasons why many of us Openly Carry, that OC affirms our God-given, Constitutionally-supported right of self defense.

One of the special aspects of this site is the requirement to cite specific incidents or laws to support a claim. In your case, you seem to be suggesting that there is a high risk of an OC'r being disarmed. This is a position that many anti-gun people use to argue against OC, yet there is nothing in real life to suggest that this happens even rarely, if at all. To support this central point of your question, can you provide a cite to incidents such as this that would support your opinion?
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
...no one has mentioned faster draw?

LEOs have the luxury of immunity from brandishing and assault charges. They can draw their weapon any time they "feel" the situation "might" be dangerous -- they won't get in trouble for this. Joe citizen on the other hand can't get away with that.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
In a decision by the Alabama Supreme Court, Reid vs. State, 1840, concealed carry was characterized as an "evil practice". An openly carried sidearm was, in the same decision, characterized as defensive in nature.

In my experience, an openly carried sidearm is a fairly powerful deterrent to most criminals. Not only that, but it is hard as Hades to dress comfortably for concealed carry in Alabama's hot and humid summers. Especially not to conceal my choices for carry weapons.

I am an older man, not in as good a shape as I was when I was a young soldier, and I need that deterrent factor. There is no way that I could get into a fist fight or "rassling" match with a younger man and win unless I got in either the first strike or an unexpected, lucky strike.

Due to the laws in my state, I have a "Pistol License" which states on its face that it is a "License to carry a revolver or pistol concealed on the person, or carry a revolver or pistol in a vehicle..." The latter part of that statement is just about the only reason I have that license.

The two holsters I use would make it very difficult for someone else to remove my weapon if I were still conscious. Situational awareness is the factor that is going to make it almost impossible for someone to get close enough to even get their hand on the weapon.
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
First, I would like you to go and look for cases where a citizen and not an LEO had someone even attempt to grab their weapon. Once you've done that then look at the cases where the person was successful in gaining control of the weapon. I can tell you right now that you will find so few cases (I think so far this forum has yet to find one successful "gun grab," less than 5 attempted gun grabs, and only a few cases of where someone that was OCing was robbed, but weapon retention wouldn't of helped that) that it is a statistical improbability for a citizen to lose their weapon. So while I would recommend anyone that OCs to have at least a level II holster it isn't that big of a deal for citizens.

Now as for why to OC even if we can CC. There are a several reasons which I'll list out in bullet format to make it easier to see (numbering isn't nessecarily in order of importance).

1) Deterrance. I carry a weapon to be able to protect myself and my family if needed, but I hope it never is. While I'm not going to go dig for all the cites, when criminals see someone armed they almost always look for a different target. So by OCing it actually further reduces my chances of needing to draw my weapon.

2) Accessability/Speed of Draw. If I need to use my weapon then I want to be able to get to it quickly, and simply put OCing is the fastest way to draw a weapon.

3) I don't want to look like a victim. When one CCs they look just like any other potential victim. My goal is to dissuade criminals from targetting me and not looking like a potential victim helps with that.

4) I'm not a ninja. By CCing you have to attempt to ambush your ambusher in order to use your weapon. And that is just something I'm not interested in doing.

5) It's my right. A right not exercised is effectively a right lost.

6) Informing the public. By OCing it shows the general public that bad things don't magically happen when a gun is present and it helps to dispel the various gun myths that have been perpetrated by the government, police, hollywood, and the media.

7) Bad guys almost exclusively CC. Why do I want to be sneaky about having a weapon when I have nothing to hide and just appear like them? I mean when I'm CCing I have to constantly be worried about if it's showing or if I'm printing, etc.

Those are the reasons I can think of right now. Also below are two links to some good info and they give plenty of cites for where their info came from

http://guncite.com/wild_west_myth.html - The site is "guncite.com" and it has a bunch of good info, but this particular article is good for showing how the "wild west" was actually a safer place than the "civilized" world.

http://gunfacts.info/ - This site has a ton of info and is designed to help dispel myths by using actual data from the government combined with logic and proper breakdown of what the data actually means. Their newest version is 6.0
 
Last edited:

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
OP does your department require you to be certified with your off duty weapon? If so do you train with firearm concealed? Does your department require you to carry off duty? If so do they require that the weapon be concealed? If performing protection or duties that encompass softened attire does your department prefer concealed or open carry? Do you personally have issues as a LEO with law abiding citizens openly carrying a handgun? Do you feel you are bias because of your job?

Nothing personal I was a LEO many moons ago. Yes we were required to armed off duty, and yes we were required to be concealed, though I usually ignored both of these stipulations. I had as much right to be unarmed off duty as I have a right to be armed as a citizen. Yes we were required to certify with our off duty weapon, and yes it was drawing from concealed on the range.

As others have pointed out I do not have to apprehend only defend myself, my open carry is part of that defense. In all honesty drawing from concealed if your poop is already in the wind, it has just been flushed before you ever get a shot as a civilian. As a police officer you have the option to draw before you are actually in imminent danger, we do not have that option. I can't imagine a bad guy honoring a time out while you get your weapon out.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC.
The Right is to "keep and bear arms." Arms can be borne either openly or concealed. Many areas, it is not legal to conceal without a permit.

QilvinLEO said:
Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".
Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
Qilvin-LEO
It IS "my right" to carry. It is my choice as to how. In Nevada, unless I apply for and receive a permit to conceal, my ONLY choice is to OC.

In the winter, OC is difficult due to clothing.
In the summer, CC is difficult due to clothing.

Can you cite instances where OCers have been disarmed because they did OC?
 
Last edited:

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
Felons conceal carry. (and so do lawful folks with permits)

Lawful citizens engaged in peaceful activities open carry. Criminals and felons never open carry (with very, very extremely rare exceptions)

I'd like to ask the OP why he feels safer or wishes it so that he'd be in the company of people with concealed firearms and not know. Isn't this a 'head in the sand' approach?

I suggest you read a little Kurt Vonnegut "Harrison Bergeron" comes to mind. It seems to me that LEOs don't like other people having parity so they want them to be handicapped by concealing:

In the short story, George Bergeron, is a near genius, but since George's intelligence is way above normal, he is forced to wear a handicap radio in his ear that sends out a sharp noise every twenty seconds or so, to prevent George from taking unfair advantage of his brain.

Let us not tread down this path, m'kay?
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

Qilvin-LEO

Okay, let me give you an answer that is more down your alley. I see thought you didn't want it and you got plenty of "its my right" (which it is)

Qilvin, open carry makes more sense. That is it. I do not open carry because I am in florida. The only time I can is at my home, grilling, cutting grass, etc. The conceal carry laws make it near impossible for my wife to carry a gun in a caliber she feels comfortable with. If my tiny wife wants to carry a full size 1911 she should be able to, but she can't. Because she can't conceal it she is considered a criminal in florida if she open carries it.

That is why. It makes more sense. Did I mention it is HOT AS BALLS HERE? God forbid I just wear a t-shirt and shorts because then you can see my gun an I'm instantly a criminal for open carrying. WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE!?!?!?

That is why officer. We The People have common sense on where a "bad place" to open carry would be and vice versa. But just walking the dog with my wife in the panhandle is a pain in the ass because it's hot as balls and I have to wear another shirt to cover my gun so that I'm not a criminal. God forbid anyone sees me with a gun! THEY MIGHT THINK WE ARE IN A FREE COUNTRY OR SOMETHING!?!?! NOOOOOOO


That is all. I hope this helped as I avoided the IT'S MY RIGHT (which it SHOULD BE, but we have no rights in this police state/country. We have unconstitutional laws that wouldn't mean a thing if it wasn't for the men and women of America's law enforcement!)


EDIT:

Hypocrisy

As active duty military I can open carry a Beretta 92 on my thigh to defend my government in Afghanistan. As active duty military if I open carry a Beretta 92 on my tight to defend my family or myself I will be arrested by officer Quilvin.
 
Last edited:

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
EDIT:

Hypocrisy

As active duty military I can open carry a Beretta 92 on my thigh to defend my government in Afghanistan. As active duty military if I open carry a Beretta 92 on my tight to defend my family or myself I will be arrested by officer Quilvin.

I think another hypocrisy is how the "armed forces" can't carry so much as a pistol on base and aren't allowed to carry in uniform unless your job specifically calls for it like security forces.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I think another hypocrisy is how the "armed forces" can't carry so much as a pistol on base and aren't allowed to carry in uniform unless your job specifically calls for it like security forces.
I certainly hope this is looked at after Carson City shooting. During time of war most soldiers should armed. If we can't trust them with a gun then something is wrong. Especially considering it is the most professional military in the world.
 

ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
First, I would like you to go and look for cases where a citizen and not an LEO had someone even attempt to grab their weapon. Once you've done that then look at the cases where the person was successful in gaining control of the weapon. I can tell you right now that you will find so few cases (I think so far this forum has yet to find one successful "gun grab," less than 5 attempted gun grabs, and only a few cases of where someone that was OCing was robbed, but weapon retention wouldn't of helped that) that it is a statistical improbability for a citizen to lose their weapon. So while I would recommend anyone that OCs to have at least a level II holster it isn't that big of a deal for citizens.

Now as for why to OC even if we can CC. There are a several reasons which I'll list out in bullet format to make it easier to see (numbering isn't nessecarily in order of importance).

1) Deterrance. I carry a weapon to be able to protect myself and my family if needed, but I hope it never is. While I'm not going to go dig for all the cites, when criminals see someone armed they almost always look for a different target. So by OCing it actually further reduces my chances of needing to draw my weapon.

2) Accessability/Speed of Draw. If I need to use my weapon then I want to be able to get to it quickly, and simply put OCing is the fastest way to draw a weapon.

3) I don't want to look like a victim. When one CCs they look just like any other potential victim. My goal is to dissuade criminals from targetting me and not looking like a potential victim helps with that.

4) I'm not a ninja. By CCing you have to attempt to ambush your ambusher in order to use your weapon. And that is just something I'm not interested in doing.

5) It's my right. A right not exercised is effectively a right lost.

6) Informing the public. By OCing it shows the general public that bad things don't magically happen when a gun is present and it helps to dispel the various gun myths that have been perpetrated by the government, police, hollywood, and the media.

7) Bad guys almost exclusively CC. Why do I want to be sneaky about having a weapon when I have nothing to hide and just appear like them? I mean when I'm CCing I have to constantly be worried about if it's showing or if I'm printing, etc.

Those are the reasons I can think of right now.

That just abouts sums it up for me too! Well written.

I much prefer open carry of the .45 to a concealed .380 here in Florida and do it as much as allowed on a daily basis.

AD (member of floridacarry.org)
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
I certainly hope this is looked at after Carson City shooting. During time of war most soldiers should armed. If we can't trust them with a gun then something is wrong. Especially considering it is the most professional military in the world.

Sadly I don't see anything changes unless Congress were to get involved. I think too many base commanders are more worried about making their next rank than to look at this issue with objective eyes. It also doesn't help that when the next Ft Hood incident happens (and yes I said "when" as I'm sure there will be another shooting at some point in the future) the investigative team will come in and ask "what did you do to help prevent this from happening?" at which point the base commander will point at his no guns policy as if it actually stops people who are intent on committing crimes (since, you know, it did suuuuch a good job at Ft Hood).

EDIT: I wonder if the OP is going to actually stop by and respond, or if this was just a drive by posting.
 
Last edited:

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
I certainly hope this is looked at after Carson City shooting. During time of war most soldiers should armed. If we can't trust them with a gun then something is wrong. Especially considering it is the most professional military in the world.

I did 21 years in the Army, and think it sucks that we can't carry on post. We can only OC in Afghanistan, and Iraq. When off post here in WA I OC almost excursively. The only time I CC is when I spend any time out in bad weather. I dress for the weather not the gun. My gun is a full size 9mm with a level II retention paddle holster which makes CC very impractical. I've been around LEO's numerous time without a word said. I have never been hassled. Also going back to the quote, there are some soldiers who shouldn't have access to guns on or off duty. I hate to say that, but it is true. So any way without claiming it is my "right", it is just more comfortable and practical.
Also I may be responding to a possible:
Tango
Romeo
Oscar
Lima
Lima
 
Last edited:

Johnburns15

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
154
Location
Lexington, ky
I have my ccw in Kentucky so I can carry my firearm to any state that allows it.
But I choose to open carry for multiple reasons.
For one I see alot of signs on businesses that state "no concealed weapons allowed". If I were to be carrying concealed I would have to take my weapon off and place it in my vehicle which could cause danger to anyone else around if someone else were to get in to my vehicle.

I also choose to open carry because I am more comfortable with doing so. I have a passive retention holster which makes it harder for me to be disarmed. But at the same time it allows me to quickly and smoothly draw my firearm if I come into a situation in where I need it. It is
Much easier to draw from my hip then from a concealed holster or
From my pocket.

And my third reason to to educate the general public on firearms. Not everyone has the knowledge that it is legal to walk around with a firearm. Most people think you need to be in law enforcement or have a certain permit to do so.
 
Top