Open Carry VS Concealed Carry Why?

Responses

Thank you all for your feedback. I will address as many responses as possible. However, there are many individuals that have stated the same thing. FOR ALL MISSOURI POSTERS, I have responded to each of you individually on the Missouri page and therefore, will not be reposting the responses here.

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For the reason of deterrence.

For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.

Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.

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For the, IT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT!

I completely agree with you. This post is in no way intended to say citizens shouldn't carried only cops should carry. If more law abiding citizens carried, there would be alot less crime. For carrying, I commend you. This post is about the reasons in which you choose to carry the firearm in plain view compared to concealed carry. We have already established that you are carrying your firearm, no need to remind me that it is your right, I understand that and completely agree with it.


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Everyone that posted to reasons such as its hot in florida, etc, I understand that completely. Also, if it is illegal or impossible (California) to conceal carry, again Thank you for your post.

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To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.

If you can, I commend you on your super human speed and your ability to practice.

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One poster mentioned, does your department require you to carry off duty, concealed and qualification questions. My department does not require me to carry off duty, nor does it require me to carry concealed. YES, We absolutely have to qualify on our off duty weapons.


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Final thoughts and crusing through to see if I missed anything.

Alot of people have seen the LEO next to my name and assumed automatically that I am against the right to bear arms in the first place. Let me correct you on that. All law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times. The idea of this post is the reasons as to WHY you chose to OC compared to CC.

QilvinLEO said:

Thank you all for your feedback. I will address as many responses as possible. However, there are many individuals that have stated the same thing. FOR ALL MISSOURI POSTERS, I have responded to each of you individually on the Missouri page and therefore, will not be reposting the responses here.

---------------------------
For the reason of deterrence.

For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.

Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.

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Seriously? You know, I was willing to actually listen to your points, then you trot that out.
Well, unless you can also trot out what must be the countless incidents where "the open carrier was shot first." We are waiting. We have been waiting EACH TIME that homily has been trotted out.
And for goodness sake, train the 19 year old girls how to shoot. And don't prevent them from being armed in college.....

QilvinLEO said:

For the, IT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT!

I completely agree with you. This post is in no way intended to say citizens shouldn't carried only cops should carry. If more law abiding citizens carried, there would be alot less crime. For carrying, I commend you. This post is about the reasons in which you choose to carry the firearm in plain view compared to concealed carry. We have already established that you are carrying your firearm, no need to remind me that it is your right, I understand that and completely agree with it.


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If you understand that it is a Right, and you also must understand that in some areas it is illegal to conceal, you shouldn't even need to ask.

QilvinLEO said:

Everyone that posted to reasons such as its hot in florida, etc, I understand that completely. Also, if it is illegal or impossible (California) to conceal carry, again Thank you for your post.

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So then why bother asking?

QilvinLEO said:

To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.

If you can, I commend you on your super human speed and your ability to practice.

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So, you believe that the criminal will always have the drop on the other? Why? Do YOU walk around in condition white?

QilvinLEO said:

One poster mentioned, does your department require you to carry off duty, concealed and qualification questions. My department does not require me to carry off duty, nor does it require me to carry concealed. YES, We absolutely have to qualify on our off duty weapons.


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Final thoughts and crusing through to see if I missed anything.

Alot of people have seen the LEO next to my name and assumed automatically that I am against the right to bear arms in the first place. Let me correct you on that. All law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times. The idea of this post is the reasons as to WHY you chose to OC compared to CC.

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It seems that none of the responses surprise you. That makes me wonder why you bothered at all......



One GOOD reason that you didn't even address is one that is in keeping with the goals of this website. Normalize OC, and you increase your desire that "all law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times." Conceal them, and you don't normalize the bearing of firearms.

How can you say this:

QilvinLEO said:

This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

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And then say this:

QilvinLEO said:

Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.
{snip}
Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.
{snip}
To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.

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It seems that you are saying that you CC so that when you are faced with a BG with a firearm already out and leveled on you, you will then be able to put said BG into a bodybag while at the same time saying that if you OC you can never hope to win in that sort of a situation and even hint that no matter if you OC or CC you cannot win when a BG has the drop on you.

So, I suppose I need a bit of clarification from you. When the BG has the drop on you, what do you propose?
1. Have a weapon OCied and be ready to give it to the BG when he asks or get shot since you are the most dangerous threat,
2. Have a weapon CCied so that the BG doesn't know you have it or get shot since you are not a threat, but risk getting shot because you are just a helpless lamb for the slaughter
3. Something else? (if so, what)

EDITED this comment is directed at Verd.

QilvinLEO said:

For the reason of deterrence.

For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

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As you can see, I believe being concealed give the possiblity of an oppurtunity to make a safe draw and shot, whereas the open carry option, the dirtbag in given example immediatly sees that your armed and destroys the threat.

You can argue the fact that the bad guy might not see the open carried firearm because so many people dont even notice you OC carrying on a day to day basis. BUT, a criminal who is committing a crime is much more alert and focused because of the crime he is commiting. If I was him, and Open carry was popular in my area, that would be one of the first things I look for.

Personally, I'm not going to hope he doesnt see it.

Administrative note. I am still trying to figure out how to work these quotes, so bare with me. My responses are bolded to yours

wrightme said:

Seriously? You know, I was willing to actually listen to your points, then you trot that out.
Well, unless you can also trot out what must be the countless incidents where "the open carrier was shot first." We are waiting. We have been waiting EACH TIME that homily has been trotted out.
And for goodness sake, train the 19 year old girls how to shoot. And don't prevent them from being armed in college.....


I understand that you dont see alot of open carriers that were "Shot first". But let me answer you with a situation. I'm dirtbag again. I just shot an open carrier. O wow, lookie here, a 600-1000 dollar <Insert Gun Make/Model> and WOW a really nice holster to go with it. I think i'll take that along with his wallet.

Sounds like a normal homicide to me where the fact that the victim was OCing would be left out:


If you understand that it is a Right, and you also must understand that in some areas it is illegal to conceal, you shouldn't even need to ask.

If you completely read my post, you would see that at the bottem I thank and commend these individuals for carrying their firearms open carry because they DONT have the option to conceal.

So then why bother asking?

I did not directly ask for reasons such as hot or other issues. I asked for other reasons. I was simply thanking them for their comment.

So, you believe that the criminal will always have the drop on the other? Why? Do YOU walk around in condition white?

I am glad you are familar with the Copper Color Codes. I, at no time, stated the criminal would have the beat on you 100 percent of the time. However, if it comes down to that one time, as in my example of the armed robbery, it only takes that one time.



It seems that none of the responses surprise you. That makes me wonder why you bothered at all......

I made this post to get responses. Upon reading my responses, I made responses instead of just saying....yeah cool. Its called communication.

One GOOD reason that you didn't even address is one that is in keeping with the goals of this website. Normalize OC, and you increase your desire that "all law abiding citizens should carry their firearms at all times." Conceal them, and you don't normalize the bearing of firearms.


And the goal of this in particular forum and thread is WHY OC CARRY. Therefore, I was simply asking for certain responses and making conversation.

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It seems to me that you are more concerned with trying to trap me into something I said instead of having a meaningful conversation. Please FULLY read my post before attemping to bash me again. THANKS.

QilvinLEO said:

EDITED this comment is directed at Verd.








As you can see, I believe being concealed give the possiblity of an oppurtunity to make a safe draw and shot, whereas the open carry option, the dirtbag in given example immediatly sees that your armed and destroys the threat.

You can argue the fact that the bad guy might not see the open carried firearm because so many people dont even notice you OC carrying on a day to day basis. BUT, a criminal who is committing a crime is much more alert and focused because of the crime he is commiting. If I was him, and Open carry was popular in my area, that would be one of the first things I look for.

Personally, I'm not going to hope he doesnt see it.

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I agree with you in that a BG looks to see if anyone is armed, both openly and concealed. But according to statistics and to criminals themselves, seeing that someone is armed is only going to make them wait until the armed individual has left the area, or make them call off the crime they were attempting. And while, like you, I would look for a gun first thing, I would then do as the criminals say that they do: Wait until the guy with the gun left or call off the robbery/mugging/whatever. Because while I (in the role of a BG) might have an element of surprise, I really don't want to have to hide from the cops while having a bullet hole in me or more. And, again, according to the criminals themselves, they think the same way (unless they are on drugs or menatlly unstable, which in that case you can't assume they will even pay attention to people with guns).

Verd said:

I agree with you in that a BG looks to see if anyone is armed, both openly and concealed. But according to statistics and to criminals themselves, seeing that someone is armed is only going to make them wait until the armed individual has left the area, or make them call off the crime they were attempting. And while, like you, I would look for a gun first thing, I would then do as the criminals say that they do: Wait until the guy with the gun left or call off the robbery/mugging/whatever. Because while I (in the role of a BG) might have an element of surprise, I really don't want to have to hide from the cops while having a bullet hole in me or more. And, again, according to the criminals themselves, they think the same way (unless they are on drugs or menatlly unstable, which in that case you can't assume they will even pay attention to people with guns).

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We are totally having the same conversation on two different threads.



Very valid points. In my scenario, the bg's had already taken the step of coming into the store for the armed robbery. By that, I mean they have taken the valid steps of being low gun ready, SUL possibly, gun in the face of the cashier etc and they look over and see you standing there with your family.

And it only takes that ONE time.

QilvinLEO said:

Very valid points. In my scenario, the bg's had already taken the step of coming into the store for the armed robbery. By that, I mean they have taken the valid steps of being low gun ready, SUL possibly, gun in the face of the cashier etc and they look over and see you standing there with your family.

And it only takes that ONE time.

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Agreed, it does only take one time. But the moment that I see someone with a gun, I'm pulling my family behind cover and going with them as my hand goes to my gun. Legally, unless I feel that my life is in danger, I cannot pull my gun on someone just for walking into a store with a gun in hand, even if they then point their gun at the cashier/manager to get cash. Hence why I would attempt to make myself a non-target, no matter if I was carrying (CC or OC) or not carrying at all. However, if shots rang out, especially if someone was injured, then my life could arguably become in danger which would then give me the legal right to protect myself with similar force, aka shooting at the BG.

I, as a private citizen, have to pay close attention to the laws. I really do NOT want to get into a civil case with a BG and do something wrong that allows the BG to legally get my money through a court case (which happens enough to worry about).

QilvinLEO said:

Administrative note. I am still trying to figure out how to work these quotes, so bare with me. My responses are bolded to yours

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Use the actual quote tags, using the [ / and words, as well as the ones with 'quote = name

QilvinLEO said:

It seems to me that you are more concerned with trying to trap me into something I said instead of having a meaningful conversation. Please FULLY read my post before attemping to bash me again. THANKS.

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It seems to me you have been more interested in extolling the virtues of CC than actually discussing the differences.


There is no statistical relevance to the 'gun grab' scenario, nor is there any statistical relevance to the 'shoot the OCer first' scenario. Why do you keep trying to use those as if they WERE statistically valid worries? Presenting those specifics as if they were a "fear" beyond just a bare fear is known as FUD. As an LE, don't you think it is more effective to think and train for ACTUAL possibilities, as opposed to made-up ones?

Administrative note. I tried to rebuild the text as if it were you quoting the bold portions. What a pain.

QilvinLEO said:

understand that you dont see alot of open carriers that were "Shot first". But let me answer you with a situation. I'm dirtbag again. I just shot an open carrier. O wow, lookie here, a 600-1000 dollar <Insert Gun Make/Model> and WOW a really nice holster to go with it. I think i'll take that along with his wallet.

Sounds like a normal homicide to me where the fact that the victim was OCing would be left out:

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Like I mentioned, unless it actually happens, is it really worth spending your time worrying about? You might also be walking on a sidewalk and get hit by a car when the driver has a heart attack. Is it statistically relevant enough for you to avoid sidewalks to prevent your death in that possibility, simply because you CAN make that "sounds plausible" scenario up?

QilvinLEO said:

If you completely read my post, you would see that at the bottem I thank and commend these individuals for carrying their firearms open carry because they DONT have the option to conceal.

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I read it. And?

QilvinLEO said:

I did not directly ask for reasons such as hot or other issues. I asked for other reasons. I was simply thanking them for their comment.

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You asked for reasons. Did you include any "don't answer if.." disclaimers other than "its my right?"

QilvinLEO said:

I am glad you are familar with the Copper Color Codes. I, at no time, stated the criminal would have the beat on you 100 percent of the time. However, if it comes down to that one time, as in my example of the armed robbery, it only takes that one time.

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Do you REALLY plan your entire methods around "that one time?"

QilvinLEO said:

I made this post to get responses. Upon reading my responses, I made responses instead of just saying....yeah cool. Its called communication.

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Even though some of your undesired responses only got the "thanks for responding" response from you......

QilvinLEO said:

And the goal of this in particular forum and thread is WHY OC CARRY. Therefore, I was simply asking for certain responses and making conversation.

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Do you realize that most of this has been covered ad nauseum in these very forums? This isn't a 'new' concept that just became a 'thing' this year.




Train for scenarios that are not just plausible, but for those that are statistically probable. Otherwise, you are wasting your efforts.
When you present scenarios that are not statistically probable, you are likely to get responses like mine.

Police have to put themselves into situations that the average citizen would tend to avoid if possible.
Yet, with retention holsters and all the extra training officers are still be disarmed!
Some folks just hate the police, others refuse to go or return to jail.

Yet we haven't see that happen with CC'ers, however many are being targeted as potential victims for other reasons (lack of situational awareness comes to mind).
The fact that we have a lack of incidents (disarming or atttacks) involving OC'ers is not a coincidence.
Most of the OC'ers I've meet have high situational awareness and put a lot of thought into the WHAT IF, situations.


Most police officers aren't gun guys, the gun is nothing but a tool they use to qualify with and are forced to carry.
How many officers would leave the firearm at home if they weren't required to carry one, how many would $ for training and qualify if their dept didn't $ for it.

I carry a firearm of my own choosing (being doing so since 1984) and spend my hard earned money for training, because freedom isn't free.


It's a mind set thing, (IMHO) that those how carry openly have made, it's a commitment to themselves and their families that the criminals apparently understand.
If they didn't we would see and hear about OC'er being attacked daily, much like we do with the police.

wrightme said:

it seems to me you have been more interested in extolling the virtues of cc than actually discussing the differences.

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NavyLCDR said:

bingo!

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Well, of Course. Everyone knows CC is substantially superior to OC. That's why police chiefs and commissioners insist that their officers only wear plain clothes and carry their arms concealed. There is NO deterrence factor in being visibly armed and able to resist, none, you have to get that outmoded idea right out of your head.

Really, just imagine how low crime would be if there were no uniformed presence. Everyone and anyone a criminal saw could potentially be armed and have a badge. They'd all be flipping burgers before the week was out rather than risk running into the plainclothes officer.

QilvinLEO said:

Thank you all for your feedback. I will address as many responses as possible. However, there are many individuals that have stated the same thing. FOR ALL MISSOURI POSTERS, I have responded to each of you individually on the Missouri page and therefore, will not be reposting the responses here.

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For the reason of deterrence.

For the individuals who carry in order to deter crime to happen to another person instead of this. That is not deterrence. Deterrence is the prevention of crime though some act, which we all know is impossible. A dirtbag will always be a dirtbag. Therefore, your reasons for opening carrying a firearm are intimidation to would be criminals saying "Dont F with me, I'll shoot you." This could be my law enforcment part of me talking, but I chose to conceal carry for if that day a criminal decides to attempt to make my family or myself a victim, if given the oppurtunity, they will be in the body bag. It is not to just push the criminal to murder, rape, rob etc a less prepared law abiding 19 year old girl that knows nothing about firearms.

Food for thought for deterrence people. For example, I am committing an armed robbery of a gas station with three of my armed thugs I brought with me. As we walk into the gas station, already fully committed to robbing the place, I look to my left and see you standing there with your opened carried firearm. Congraulations, I just shot you and neutralized that threat.

Dont tell me you can draw a firearm faster than a dirtbag that already has the firearm out. If you can, congraulations, you are amazing and should become a super law enforcment officer. This isnt hollywood.

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You say "Deterrence is the prevention of crime through some act, which we all know is impossible." The act would be OCing, and I would suggest you read the "True Tales of Self Defense" forum. There have been several examples of deterrence succeeding. One of them was where a group of armed robbers sent in a scout, saw an OCer and decided to wait for him to leave, and then the group proceeded to get busted by a cop who investigated them for suspicious activity (this one even made the news. Maybe someone can post a link for you). Another was where a guy walked in with a gun already out, saw an OCer at the register (back turned to the BG), and proceeded to leave even though he could have blown away the OCer. In yet another incident there was a person who was about to steal a case of beer, saw an OCer's gun, and decided to not commit his crime (we know this because the potential criminal later talked with the OCer outside and told him this). The thing with deterrence is that you generally can't tell exactly when it works because by deterring them you prevented the crime (or at least a crime against you) without any confrontation.

The whole thing of "see an OCer, kill them first" simply isn't the case for most criminals even if one would think it would be. I also highly suggest you read that gun facts 6.0 I linked. It also talks about this and the people have interviewed actual criminals about this very thing and it gives cites.

For the, IT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT!

I completely agree with you. This post is in no way intended to say citizens shouldn't carried only cops should carry. If more law abiding citizens carried, there would be alot less crime. For carrying, I commend you. This post is about the reasons in which you choose to carry the firearm in plain view compared to concealed carry. We have already established that you are carrying your firearm, no need to remind me that it is your right, I understand that and completely agree with it.

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Good to know, several (but by no means all) LEOs come across with the attitude that non-LEOs shouldn't be armed.

To the fast draw John Waynes in the house, you are not going to draw, take aim, (CALM DOWN, FRONT SIGHT, TRIGGER PRESS) and fire at a criminal who already has the drop on you. Its better to leave it in the holster at that point.

If you can, I commend you on your super human speed and your ability to practice.

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Not all crime is commited with a gun. In fact a large number are still commited with something besides a gun. Now obviously if they have a gun in my face I'm not going to try and draw. But should there be an opportunity to draw I don't want to be fumbling with trying to get clothing out of the way. Also depending on the range of your assailant all you really need to do is have your gun clear your holster and point it forward. You don't generally have crimes happening 10'+ away from you when you're the target so the requirement to get sight alignment/sight picture isn't really needed and you can employ natural aiming (though you should also practice shooting this way first).


Doh, I thought I posted this before going to work. Oh well, better late than never though I'm sure a lot of this has been covered by now.

QilvinLEO said:

To defend my fellow LEO eariler reguarding the the comments about CC compared to OC. Obvioulsy, it is your right to OC. Alot of individuals that OC also have a CCW because of their interest in firearms. My only problem with OC is if you can CCW, why not do it? My reasons for such are because of weapon retention. I know when I am carrying my offduty weapon it is a single retention holster (and most holsters that I have read on here that people carry and encountered on the street). Just pull and fire. Whereas, my duty holster is a triple retention holster, that requires certain movements in order to remove it and those movements should remain a secret to the general public. (Yeah, because that happens)

So, not only do I have training in weapon retention, but also have an extremely safe holster that most individuals do not know how to draw the weapon, and even if they do, it is hard to do it if the firearm is not on your waste, why would you place yourself into the slightly more risky situation of being disarmed?

I'm just being honest and would like to know some responses of WHY not just CC if you can. I dont want to hear "cause its my right". It wont be your right anymore if it results in your death via being disarmed.

I wont respond to flamers or people that just say "Its my right".

Thanks and hope to have honest opinions,
Qilvin-LEO

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I think it would be in the best interest of LE to advocate for OC.

1). It tells the general public and any LE official that a person is armed instantaneously and without question. There is no guessing, no surprises, or lengthy questioning to determine the presence of a firearm.

2). It lets LE know a person is armed without having to justify probable cause and constitutional protections.

3). Statistically speaking more LE is killed from a concealed weapon than one that is openly visable.

4). If you are a LE officer wouldn't you prefer know right away if a person is armed in order to react accordingly and appropriately without delay? I know some LE will say that they are trained to approach everyone as if they are armed but real life isn't that black and white. Look at the recent killing of 2 Rapid City officers. They were shot and killed when they approached a group of individuals. I can't help but think they would be alive today if they knew the suspects were armed (criminal intent or not). Sometimes life and death comes down to a few seconds. Wouldn't open carry give LE the edge when confronting people.

5). LE can conceal their weapons in the line of duty. They don't need to open carry in order to perform their job so why do they? They do so to instill a sense of fear, intimidation and deterrence. Shouldn't the general public be afford the same?

Successful troll?

VW_Factor said:

Successful troll?

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Is it really trolling if they honestly believe what they are saying?

I see many people have still failed to completely read my post. I, at no time, indicated I am against OCing. I am just trying to create a dicussion between the differences of OC and CC. If you cant handle that coversation, the internet is not a place for you and please grow up.


To all the people that say, "You can put all these 'What If' events for everything". Sure they are what if events that may or may not have taken place. Nobody had ran a plane into the world trade center 10 years ago either. If only we "what if'd that". I perfer to try to think of what a criminal might do and PREVENT it rather than picking up the pieces later.

To those who say, "The criminal didn't F with me cause I was carrying and decided to go attack another". I dont know how you can live yourself with that attitude. Personally, If I can do anything to help prevent bad things happening to other people, I am going to do it. Not just hope they go do it to somebody else.

To the poster that said "QilvinLEO is an executioner" blah blah blah

If I, God Forbide, have a reason to draw and fire my firearm, I fired that pistol to immedatily stop a criminal from ending my own or somebody elses life. If that invovles the death of the criminal, so be it. Always aim center mass. Your not John Wayne. Stop thinking you can shoot a gun out of somebodies hand. This isnt HollyWood.

QilvinLEO said:

To those who say, "The criminal didn't F with me cause I was carrying and decided to go attack another". I dont know how you can live yourself with that attitude. Personally, If I can do anything to help prevent bad things happening to other people, I am going to do it. Not just hope they go do it to somebody else.

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We can't do that though, not legally. Legally, the only time that we can draw our gun is in self-defense against someone who is using lethal or life-threatening force. If I OC and a BG decides not to rob me but instead decides to rob someone else in 5 minutes... well, my response would be "Why didn't that guy care enough about his life and the lives of his loved ones to carry a weapon as well, preferably carrying it openly since the mugger was deterred by my OC firearm!" The fault doesn't lie with me, the fault lies with the guy who gave up his rights the moment he did not strap a gun to his person.

If you act like a sheep, sooner or later you will be sheared by someone who wants what you have.

Verd said:

We can't do that though, not legally. Legally, the only time that we can draw our gun is in self-defense against someone who is using lethal or life-threatening force. If I OC and a BG decides not to rob me but instead decides to rob someone else in 5 minutes... well, my response would be "Why didn't that guy care enough about his life and the lives of his loved ones to carry a weapon as well, preferably carrying it openly since the mugger was deterred by my OC firearm!" The fault doesn't lie with me, the fault lies with the guy who gave up his rights the moment he did not strap a gun to his person.

If you act like a sheep, sooner or later you will be sheared by someone who wants what you have.

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Noted.

Disreguard edit. I had misread what was being said and have recanted my statements.

QilvinLEO said:

I see many people have still failed to completely read my post. I, at no time, indicated I am against OCing. I am just trying to create a dicussion between the differences of OC and CC. If you cant handle that coversation, the internet is not a place for you and please grow up.


To all the people that say, "You can put all these 'What If' events for everything". Sure they are what if events that may or may not have taken place. Nobody had ran a plane into the world trade center 10 years ago either. If only we "what if'd that". I perfer to try to think of what a criminal might do and PREVENT it rather than picking up the pieces later.

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"What if"ing the highly improbable isn't very productive but yet that's what you're doing followed by trying to combine it with a national tradegy. Also people had "What if"ed a terrorist attack on the WTC (hell, the planes weren't even the first attack on the buildings, they were just the successful attack) but for whatever reason this one slipped through the holes. I mean "what if" a meteor or toilet seat were to fall from space and hit you? Should you go around living your life in fear of these "what if"s even though they have an impossibly low chance of happening? Or I mean theoretically a person can fall to the center of the world, so lets be worried about that! Or getting struck by lightning to be a bit more realistic (though those other things are still "possible").

Just as how those situations are all possible but unreasonable to live one's life around, so are the "What if" scenarios you've been listing. Life is dangerous, it's a fact. But your "what if" scenarios have such a small chance of happening that their "fixes" would cause more damage than they would prevent.

To those who say, "The criminal didn't F with me cause I was carrying and decided to go attack another". I dont know how you can live yourself with that attitude. Personally, If I can do anything to help prevent bad things happening to other people, I am going to do it. Not just hope they go do it to somebody else.

If I, God Forbide, have a reason to draw and fire my firearm, I fired that pistol to immedatily stop a criminal from ending my own or somebody elses life. If that invovles the death of the criminal, so be it. Always aim center mass. Your not John Wayne. Stop thinking you can shoot a gun out of somebodies hand. This isnt HollyWood.

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We can't control the actions of other people, but yet the bolded part exactly reminds me of interrogation tactics where the person goes "YOU CAN STOP THIS, YOU CAN MAKE ME STOP. JUST TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO KNOW!" Sorry, but if a bad guy CHOOSES to hurt someone that isn't on me. My goal is to not be targetted for crime. So then the question is, why was his new target so uncaring that they didn't take steps to prevent theirselves and their family from being targetted? Also this very much falls into the whole you being an executioner and basically asking that you be targetted for crime so that you can kill the person.

As for your John Wayne comment. No one here is talking about shooting the gun out of the person's hand or other trick shots. We all know to aim center mass and your comment just comes across as you attempting to take a pot shot and be demeaning even when no one has suggested such an action.