Educational thread

In light of a recent issue on another thread, the guy refrenced some folks as being dumb for continuing to boycott Schnucks markets. While I will not pretend to give a damn what his thoughts are on the matter, the clueless approach made me wonder, do folks remember?

Some of the folks here on ocdo are indeed very young aka new to the gun rights scene so to speak. Many may have no idea who they are indeed fighting with over such issues. I thought I would shed some historical light on that for you all. Please bear in mind, this is a single listing of companies who in 1999 (got year wrong on other thread, hey I am old, give me a break) who gave monies to FIGHT proposition B aka the CCW vote. The list is HUGE and the dollars are large.

I remeber this list when I choose how to spend my dollars because I do not want my dollars spent fighting any gun rights, oc or otherwise. Here is the list without the Brady's who gave over 150k themselves to prevent it. Use it as you see fit.

Handgun Control, Inc
$155,504

Development Specialists
70 W. Madison Street, #2300
Chicago, IL 60602
$35,000

Civic Council of Greater Kansas City
1200 Main, Suite 2300
Kansas City, MO 64105
$25,000

Greater Kansas City Chamber of Commerce
911 Main Street, #2600
Kansas City, MO 64105
$25,000

James B. Nutter Co.
4153 Broadway
Kansas City, MO 64111
$25,000

Schnucks Markets
$25,000

Silver Dollar City
$25,000

Sprint Corp PAC
Parkway
Westwood, KS 66205
$25,000

Hallmark Cards
PO Box 418307
Kansas City, MO 64141
$20,000

UtiliCorp Inc.
10700 East 350 Highway
Kansas City, MO 64138
$20,001

FAM Holdings
114 West 11th Street
Kansas City, MO 64105
$15,000

Southwestern Bell Telephone
One Bell Center
St. Louis, MO 63101
$11,700

Commerce Bank of Kansas City
PO Box 13686
Kansas City, MO 64199
$10,000

Commerce Bank of St. Louis
8000 Forsyth Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63105
$10,000

Edward Jones Securities Brokerage
12555 Manchester Road
St. Louis, MO 63131
Phone: 314-515-2000
Fax: 314-515-2622
$10,000

DST Systems, Inc.
333 West 11th St.
Kansas City, MO 64105
$10,000

Express Scripts
14000 Riverport Drive
St. Louis, MO 63043
$10,000

SSM Health System
477 N. Lindbergh
St. Louis, MO 63141
$10,000

Unity Health
1650 Des Peres Road, #301
St. Louis, MO 63131
$10,000

Kingsdell P.C.
232 N. Kingshighway Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63108
$9,900

American Century Companies
PO Box 412046
Kansas City, MO 64141
$5,000

BJC Health Systems
4353 Clayton Road, Room 166
St. Louis MO 63110
$5,000

Blue Cross Blue Shield
PO Box 419169
Kansas City, MO 64141
$5,000

Central Bancompany
238 Madison
Jefferson City, MO 65101
Includes:
Central Bank, Jefferson City
Jefferson Bank, Jefferson City
Boone County National Bank, Columbia
First National Bank of Audrain County, Mexico
City Bank and Trust, Moberly
Farmers and Traders Bank, California
Third National Bank of Sedalia
Central Bank of Lake of the Ozarks
First Central Bank, Warrensburg
First National Bank of Missouri, Lee's Summit
Empire Bank, Springfield
Ozark Mountain Bank, Branson
First National Bank of St. Louis
$5,000

Children's Mercy Hospital
2401 Gillham Road
Kansas City, MO 64108
$5,000

J.E. Dunn Construction - Kansas City
$5,000

Earthgrains
PO Box 180905
St. Louis, MO 63118
$5,000

Faultless Starch/Bon Ami
1025 West 8th Street
Kansas City, MO 64101
$5,000

General American
PO Box 396
St. Louis, MO 63166
$5,000

Kansas City Royals
PO Box 419969
Kansas City, MO 64141
$5,000

Kansas City Chiefs
One Arrowhead Drive
Kansas City, MO 64129
$5,000

Mallinckrodt, Inc.MO PAC
675 McDonnell Blvd., Box 5840
St. Louis, MO 63134
$5,000

Maritz, Inc.
1375 N. Highway Drive
Fenton, MO 63099
$5,000

Site Oil Company
50 S. Bemiston
St. Louis, MO 63105
$5,000

St. Louis Cardinals
250 Stadium Plaza
St. Louis, MO 63102
$5,000

St. Louis Rams
One Rams Way
St. Louis, MO 63045
$5,000

Sverdrup Corp. (Engineering)
13723 Riverport Drive
St. Louis, MO 63043
$5,000

Ballot Initiative Strategy Center
33 Long Ave.
Allsted, MA 02134
$3,000

Butler Manufacturing
PO BOX 419917
Kansas City, MO 64141
$3,000

Saint Luke's Shawnee Mission
4401 Wornall Road
Kansas City, MO 64111
$3,000

Tension Envelope
819 East 19th St.
Kansas City, MO 64108
$3,000

Cardinal Glennon Hospital
1465 South Grand Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63104
$2,500

Harmon Industries
PO Box 600
Grain Valley, MO 64029
$2,500

Health Midwest
2316 East Meyer Blvd.
Kansas City, MO 64132
$2,500

Michael Douglas Foundation
3550 Wilshire
Los Angeles, CA 90010
$2,500

Missouri Gas Energy
3420 Broadway
Kansas City, MO 64111
$2,500

Hycel Properties
101 South Hanley, #1300
St. Louis, MO 63105
$2,000

INDEECO (Electric heating products for commercial and industrial applications)
425 Hanley Industrial Court
St. Louis, MO 63144
$2,000

St. Joseph Health Center
1000 Carondele
Kansas City, MO 64114
$2,000

World Wide Technology
127A Weldon Parkway
St. Louis, MO 63146
$1,750

Heartland Health Systems
5325 Faraon
St. Joseph, MO 64506
$1,500

Greater Kansas City WPC PAC
4935 Mercier
Kansas City, MO 64112
$1,075

AMC Entertainment Inc. (movie theatre chain in AZ, CA, Canada, DC, FL, GA, IL, KS, LA, MA, MI, MO, NC, NE, NJ, NY, OH, OK, PA, TX, VA, WA)
106 West 14th Street
Kansas City, MO 64105
(816)221-4000
traded on AMEX under name 'AEN'
http://www.amctheatres.com/amc/amc_comments.html
$1,000

Argosy Casino
777 NW Argosy Parkway
Riverside, MO 64150
$1,000

Arthur Anderson
100 Arthur Anderson Parkway
Sarasota, FL 34232
$1,000

Brown and Associates
232 N. Kingshighway, #202
St. Louis, MO 63108
$1,000

The Claymont Company
1830 Craig Park Road
St. Louis, MO 63146
$1,000

Drumtech
PO Box 15150
St. Louis, MO 63110
$1,000

Educational Employees Credit Union
4020 Fee Fee Road
St. Louis, MO 63044
$1,000

First Morgan LLC
18 S. Central Ave.
St. Louis, MO 63105
$1,000

Gentry Properties
1830 Craig Park Road
St. Louis, MO 63146
$1,000

Jacmax Investment
1830 Craig Park Road
St. Louis, MO 63146
$1,000

Lemay Building Corp.
1830 Craig Park Road
St. Louis, MO 63146
$1,000

Marcone Appliances
2300 Clark Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63103
$1,000

Midwest Petroleum Co.
6760 Southwest
St. Louis, MO 63143
$1,000

S&H Parking
1325 North 10th Street
St. Louis, MO 63106
$1,000

Sosland Companies
4800 Main Street, #100
Kansas City, MO 64112
$1,000

St. Louis University
221 N. Grand
St. Louis, MO 63103
$1,000

Tomax Development Corp.
1830 Craig Park Road
St. Louis, MO 63146
$1,000

United Fruit and Produce
51-71 Produce Row
St. Louis, MO 63102
$1,000

Fabick Tractor
One Fabick Drive
Fenton, MO 63026
$500

Gateway National Bank
5501 Lindell Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63108
$500

Paramount Liquor
6501 Hall Street
St. Louis, MO 63147
$500

Queenswood Investments
18 S. Central Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63105
$500

Sandy Rothschild and Assoc.
7751 Carondelet Ave.
St. Louis, MO 63105
$500

Broadway Office Interiors
2115 Locus
St. Louis, MO
$450

Solomon, Inc.
PO Box 410826
St. Louis, MO 63141
$200

Stephens and Associates, Inc.
2350 Market Street, #400
St. Louis, MO 63103
$200

The Claunett Company
982 Crestwood Plaza
St. Louis, MO 63126
$100

Stan-Key Plumbing Service
2763 Tiara Drive
Arnold, MO 63010
$100

For those who are still interested, that is 472,976 dollars, plus the 155,504 that the Brady's added for a total of 628,480 bucks given to PREVENT you from being able to carry a weapon on your person!

They got that money from their customers, I am no longer a customer of any of them exclusive of the hospitals which I have no real choice on and Sprint but not by my own choice.

Spend wisely.

LMTD

Damn, my bank, the hospital I was born in as well as the ones my kids were born in and the place I get gas and see my movies .....all on the list.

I'm a failure.

Point #1:Yes. These are the businesses and entities that spent money to fight your right to self defense. I personally reccommend, not only refusing to spend money at these places, but also informing your friends and family (and anyone else who will listen) as to WHY they shouldn't spend their money at these businesses. All this goes for nothing if these businesses HAVE NO IDEA THAT YOU, AND MANY OTHERS, ARE DOING THIS ON PURPOSE. (It is impossible for them to count the money they DON'T receive, as they don't receive it in order to count.) Therefore, NOT spending money at these places will only have an effect if you TAKE MEASURES TO INFORM THEM how much you have 1) refused to spend at their business, or 2) spent at their competitor's business...and WHY you have done so.

So if you do boycott these places....make it an effective boycott and inform them of the REASON and HOW MUCH THEY LOST.

Point #2: The discussion leads to what the reccommended course of action should be if (as in Schnucks) one of these businesses "sees the light" and changes their corporate policy regarding CCW. I personally have no problem with either choice of action, whatever anyone personally chooses to do. If you choose to 1)hold a grudge or 2) let bygones be bygones...both choices hold their own positives and negatives. For me personally, they cancel each other out, leaving me without an opinion on what anyone personally chooses.

Help me weigh the different logical possibilities. If they DO change their corporate policy (as in Schnucks), should they be rewarded for doing so? Or should they continue to be punished by boycott?

1) If they are rewarded, wouldn't this provide an incentive for OTHER businesses to change their policy, as well? ("Look at Schnuck's increased customer base! We should change our policy, too!")
2) If they are rewarded, wouldn't this also provide an example that there are no repurcussions for supporting oppression of 2A rights? ("Schnucks spent $25,000, reversed their policy, and the Pro-2A folks shop there anyway. Why shouldn't we continue to fight 2A causes?")
3) If they continue to be punished, wouldn't this illustrate to other businesses the futility of changing their policy? ("Why should we allow CCW? We'll STILL be boycotted?")
4) If they continue to be punished, wouldn't this provide an incentive NOT to oppose 2A rights? ("Don't donate to anti-2A causes! We'll be boycotted FOREVER and EVER!")

After weighing all the options for and against patronizing businesses that change their stance... I don't think option #2 makes much sense. A business that oppresses 2A rights on principal isn't worried about gaining our business LATER, so why would they "think ahead" that far?

To me, options #1 and #3 make the greatest argument FOR starting to patronize a business that reverses its former anti-2A policy. This is why I personally choose to shop at Schnucks. (However infrequently I'm 1) close enough to one, and 2) actually need something while being close to one.)

However, I believe option #4 also has merit. I'm a grudge holding S.O.B. Don't think for one minute that when I walk in the front door of a Schnucks, I'm not fully aware of the knife they stuck in free citizen's backs. Therefore, if you choose NOT to reward Schnucks for changing their policy, I have no problem with that choice, whatsoever.

I just think, for pro-2A causes, providing an incentive for OTHER businesses to change their policy, as well, is a smart choice. It doesn't feel good. But I'm personally choosing to "think with my head, not with my heart" in this instance.

Superlite27 said:

To me, options #1 and #3 make the greatest argument FOR starting to patronize a business that reverses its former anti-2A policy. This is why I personally choose to shop at Schnucks. (However infrequently I'm 1) close enough to one, and 2) actually need something while being close to one.)

Click to expand...

You forgot an option.

10. Other companies see them reverse their position and note that the boycott lost them enough money for them to do so since in no way what so ever has Smucks recanted their position. They said they were pulling the signs in hopes of regaining the people who may have intentionally not shopped with them due to the signs.

They did not say they are no longer anti-gun, they did not pledge not to give anti-gun causes money and they did not recant their reason which was "We at Schnucks are doing what is best for our customers" in other words, they made it clear you are not capable of making your own decisions and since you might make the wrong one, they are choosing to eliminate your choices.

When Smucks donates 125k to the NRA/SAF/GOA I will shop with them again. In other words when they pay for their mistake with five times the intensity that they made it, they have made their amends, that's my position.

It's good to remember... it helps make us human

+1000000000

It might annoy some here, but I still shop at Schnucks. Me ( one person ) doing or not business with them isn't going to effect them one way or the other. Just my thoughts.

Tony4310 said:

It might annoy some here, but I still shop at Schnucks. Me ( one person ) doing or not business with them isn't going to effect them one way or the other. Just my thoughts.

Click to expand...

No one drop of water thinks itself responsible for the flood.

Whether or not to solicit businesses that gave money to fight CCW, but do not ban CCW in their locations is an interesting question. What I think would be fair would be if they gave the same amount of money to a pro-2A group as they did to an anti-2A group. That would make me happy. Short of that, I'm not interesting in soliciting their business.

Tony4310 said:

It might annoy some here, but I still shop at Schnucks. Me ( one person ) doing or not business with them isn't going to effect them one way or the other. Just my thoughts.

Click to expand...

You might not matter. But what about the other ten thousand (random number here) people thinking like you? Individually each of them don't matter either. But as a collective you matter greatly. To shop there or not is your choice, but to think that you don't matter is a failure on your part to look beyond yourself and at the whole picture.

I also know many of the workers at the one by me and I went to school with them and many themselves did not support the ban. Now at other stores I can not speak, but the one by me actually was never posted any where.

If a company EVER opposed 2A in ANY way, they will NEVER get my business and will hear about it from me. Thanks for this list, I contact every company I come into contact with that has anti-2A policies.

If they ever make a solid public reversal that is MORE than the equivalent of the original position, I will reconsider. There is NO good excuse for an "American" company to ever oppose my rights. I consider them "enemies domestic" until proven otherwise.

MONEY is spent when someone is serious. A sign on the door might be an accident but donating money means business. Screw them.