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Thread: off topic, but.....

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    off topic, but.....

    but since this is a state specific forum i thought i would toss it out here.

    i seem to recall a bill rolling through the legislature recently, maybe last session or in '10, that would allow MO residents to purchase long guns in states bordering MO. what i don't recall was if it passed or not. did it?

    the reason i ask is that i will be visiting Oklahoma in the near future and may end up at a gun show there. if this bill passed and OK was on board with it, it would be nice to eliminate the MO FFL 4473 transfer step. know what i mean?



    ETA: this point may be moot as OK law states that residents of contiguous states may purchase ammo and firearms (per NRA gunlaws page). but it would still be nice to know if MO passed a similar law.
    Last edited by Broondog; 09-08-2011 at 02:23 AM.
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    571.085. Residents of the state of Missouri may purchase firearms in any state, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Missouri and in the state in which the purchase is made.
    571.087. Residents of any state may purchase firearms in the state of Missouri, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Missouri and in the state in which such persons reside.

    It was passed on August 28, 2011.


    And just so you can be sure as u should never take anyones word for it, look it up yourself it was Missouri HB294 and it made afew changes in firearms laws here in MO. And they were all for the better.
    Last edited by Marc; 09-08-2011 at 02:39 AM.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    571.085. Residents of the state of Missouri may purchase firearms in any state, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Missouri and in the state in which the purchase is made.
    571.087. Residents of any state may purchase firearms in the state of Missouri, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Missouri and in the state in which such persons reside.

    It was passed on August 28, 2011.


    And just so you can be sure as u should never take anyones word for it, look it up yourself it was Missouri HB294 and it made afew changes in firearms laws here in MO. And they were all for the better.
    No, they weren't all for the better. The new training requirements for CCW applicants and the change to 571.020 regarding switchblade knives were both very poorly thought out and written, not to mention the motivation behind the changes that were made to the training requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    571.085. Residents of the state of Missouri may purchase firearms in any state, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Missouri and in the state in which the purchase is made.
    571.087. Residents of any state may purchase firearms in the state of Missouri, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Missouri and in the state in which such persons reside.

    It was passed on August 28, 2011.


    And just so you can be sure as u should never take anyones word for it, look it up yourself it was Missouri HB294 and it made afew changes in firearms laws here in MO. And they were all for the better.
    And, it wasn't passed on August 28, 2001. That's when it became law.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    No, they weren't all for the better. The new training requirements for CCW applicants and the change to 571.020 regarding switchblade knives were both very poorly thought out and written, not to mention the motivation behind the changes that were made to the training requirements.
    May have something to do with political favors from Columbia Missouri? Actually is was a political favor from Target Masters in Columbia and lies within the legislature to slip it in!
    You, I and a number of others know the whole stroy behind Rep. Riddle and what garbage she pulled.
    See the MSSA discussion site oif you wan the whole story... www.missouricarry.com
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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    May have something to do with political favors from Columbia Missouri? Actually is was a political favor from Target Masters in Columbia and lies within the legislature to slip it in!
    You, I and a number of others know the whole stroy behind Rep. Riddle and what garbage she pulled.
    See the MSSA discussion site oif you wan the whole story... www.missouricarry.com
    Absolutely. "Shenanigans" is about the cleanest word I can come up with to describe it.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    And, it wasn't passed on August 28, 2001. That's when it became law.
    Correct. It actually passed on May 26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Absolutely. "Shenanigans" is about the cleanest word I can come up with to describe it.
    Is it possible to give me a brief rundown? As much as I would love to sign up on missouricarry.com, doing so would just give me another forum to keep tabs on, and there is only so much free time in a day!

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordmorpheus View Post
    Is it possible to give me a brief rundown? As much as I would love to sign up on missouricarry.com, doing so would just give me another forum to keep tabs on, and there is only so much free time in a day!
    I don't think you have to be registered to simply read the posts. This link will take you to a thread that gets right to the heart of the matter:

    http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/...ad.php?t=61207

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    Regular Member xdmcompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    I don't think you have to be registered to simply read the posts. This link will take you to a thread that gets right to the heart of the matter:

    http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/...ad.php?t=61207
    The link takes you to the page to register, you have to be a member just to read posts on MSSA. I am a member and can not read any posts unless I sign in.

  11. #11
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xdmcompact View Post
    The link takes you to the page to register, you have to be a member just to read posts on MSSA. I am a member and can not read any posts unless I sign in.
    Well there you go. I have my profile on Mo Carry set to "always stay logged in", so it's never an issue for me.

    I would recommend registering and reading the information at the link I provided if you are interested in learning the details. Nothing says you have to become an active member over there, but there is a lot of information posted in that thread regarding this situation that is worth reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    And, it wasn't passed on August 28, 2001. That's when it became law.
    And I thought all along it became law on August 28, 2011. Shows what I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xdmcompact View Post
    The link takes you to the page to register, you have to be a member just to read posts on MSSA. I am a member and can not read any posts unless I sign in.
    Here is the meat of it, Tim has it posted on his webspace as well.

    Dale Roberts/Target Masters Tried to Invalidate YOUR Carry Permit.

    Since passage of the concealed-carry law in 2003, the sheriffs of all 114 counties of Missouri have accepted training certificates from ccw applicants who fired no more than 70 rounds total through two guns during their firearms safety training course, 50 of which were fired during a live fire practice exercise plus 20 in a live fire qualification test. Although more rounds could be fired, 70 rounds represented the minimum rounds required in the standards set forth in the plain and simple language of RSMO 571.111 (2) (9) (10):

    (2) A physical demonstration performed by the applicant that demonstrated his or her ability to safely load and unload a revolver and a semiautomatic pistol and demonstrated his or her marksmanship with both;

    (9) A live firing exercise of sufficient duration for each applicant to fire a handgun, from a standing position or its equivalent, a minimum of fifty rounds at a distance of seven yards from a B-27 silhouette target or an equivalent target;

    (10) A live fire test administered to the applicant while the instructor was present of twenty rounds from a standing position or its equivalent at a distance from a B-27 silhouette target, or an equivalent target, of seven yards.

    The standards do not specify the number of rounds to be fired through each gun. This was intentional. The standards for the course of fire for a ccw endorsement was written by State Representative Larry Crawford, with a large amount of input from Greg Jeffery and me, and we knew that the language had to be precise in what was required of the student so that the standards could not be changed at the whim of an anti-gun sheriff, yet would be flexible enough that an 86-yr-old grandmother would be able to pass.

    Dale Roberts of Target Masters, who failed to understand the simple language of the statute cited above, asked St Rep Chris Kelly to obtain an AG’s Opinion on the matter. In that letter, Roberts cites Learn To Carry, LLC as the sole example of instructors who are doing it wrong, and copied a webpage on “What to Bring” from Learn To Carry’s website. See Robert’s letter to Rep Kelly:

    http://learntocarry.com/docs/571ques...aleRoberts.pdf

    Also, as reported in a thread by Thunderlounge in a MissouriCarry.com forum thread:

    http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/...ad.php?t=61192

    Roberts/TM is telling prospective students that Learn To Carry’s courses fail to meet the statutory requirements (because we shoot 50 + 20). From a number of other first-hand sources, we know Roberts’ argument is, if your training course was not 140 rounds with both a pistol and revolver qualification of 20 rounds each, your permit is invalid and wrongfully issued, with your instructor having falsified the Sheriff’s form and guilty of a Class C Misdemeanor. While this BS is aimed at Learn To Carry, the collateral damage, if true, would have been statewide and likely involving approximately 99% of Missouri ccw permits that, according to Roberts, would be invalid.

    As luck would have it, the AG’s Opinion, based on the statutes after passage of HB294, serves to reveal Mr. Roberts’/Target Masters’ flawed thinking:

    http://learntocarry.com/docs/571ques...10718-MOAG.pdf

    With this same understanding of the new language, the Missouri Sheriffs Association has issued new forms to address the new standards, and sheriffs have stated they will not accept training courses or old forms based on the old standards once the new law goes into effect on 8/28/11. If, as Mr. Roberts contends, the new language only “clarified” the standards, then there would be no difference in the standards after 8/28/11, and thus, no need for sheriffs and instructors to update their training certificates -- and more importantly, there would be no basis for sheriffs to reject past training certificates. These things have changed precisely because the standards have changed.

    The ultimate irony is that Wisconsin, the latest state to allow concealed carry, does not have any live fire requirement. Meanwhile, here in Missouri, the people who asked for SS#2 to become part of HB294 (so they could rent more guns, sell more ammo and make more $$) did far more to damage our 2A Rights than the anti-gunners have done in 20 years. You must contact your elected officials today and during the next legislative session with the clear message to repeal all the bad changes made in SS#2 of HB294.

    When considering where to spend your hard earned firearms dollars, choose wisely.

    Be Safe,
    Tim Oliver
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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