robdoar
Regular Member
[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/UqpjWnQjC5s[/video]
When you raise your voice, no-one wins.
When you raise your voice, no-one wins.
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How NOT to win hearts and minds open carrying...
- Thread starter robdoar
- Start date
JamesCanby
Activist Member
I'm not sure what you're saying here ... the OCr was calmly working with the restaurant manager to resolve the situation, when the ex-police officer interjected himself into the conversation and created the scene. How would you have reacted?
SFCRetired
Regular Member
From what I saw, it was going well until the "ex-cop" (probably cop wannabe) interfered with the situation.
6L6GC
Regular Member
that guy in the UofA shirt
is an absolute pr**k. He is the one that caused the whole uproar and he consistently demonstrated an aggressive attitude and was very abrasive. When he decided that he was the one who could determine who could speak and who could not he approached the other man's wife in a threatening manner. That's when the gun owner warned him not to approach her and stepped between them. Smart move. And the punk backed off. If I had been the manager of that store I would have called the sheriff and ordered the UofA punk to leave immediately.
It is true that there are enormous benefits to quiet civil deportment while carrying, but it is also true that there is a time to stand up to self righteous a$$es that think they are in charge of everybody's life and can with impunity "put others in their place". I am personally glad the gun owner stood up for himself and didn't let some a-hole run over him and his family. There comes a time when "winning the hearts and minds" of bystanders become secondary to preserving one's rights and freedoms and standing up for personal liberty.
If that had been me, I would have been the first one on the phone to the police asking for help and explaining that an aggressive man was threatening me and my family. That would have/could have been an important legal step in such a situation.
I probably shouldn't comment further. just my two cents worth,
roN
is an absolute pr**k. He is the one that caused the whole uproar and he consistently demonstrated an aggressive attitude and was very abrasive. When he decided that he was the one who could determine who could speak and who could not he approached the other man's wife in a threatening manner. That's when the gun owner warned him not to approach her and stepped between them. Smart move. And the punk backed off. If I had been the manager of that store I would have called the sheriff and ordered the UofA punk to leave immediately.
It is true that there are enormous benefits to quiet civil deportment while carrying, but it is also true that there is a time to stand up to self righteous a$$es that think they are in charge of everybody's life and can with impunity "put others in their place". I am personally glad the gun owner stood up for himself and didn't let some a-hole run over him and his family. There comes a time when "winning the hearts and minds" of bystanders become secondary to preserving one's rights and freedoms and standing up for personal liberty.
If that had been me, I would have been the first one on the phone to the police asking for help and explaining that an aggressive man was threatening me and my family. That would have/could have been an important legal step in such a situation.
I probably shouldn't comment further. just my two cents worth,
roN
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Since the police were there I would most certainly have filed assault(approaching wife in threatening manner) as well as disorderly conduct charges against the "hole surrounded by ass". I do believe the manager needs to be retrained, he let a situation get out of hand. He should know the laws enough to be able to not let something get to the point it did. Most certainly the cop wannabe needed to be banned permanently from the restaurant. It is one thing to make a complaint, another to incite a incident. If he was so intimidated by the firearm why in the heck did he not keep his mouth shut. Had been dealing with a gang banger with a concealed illegal firearm the jack arse would have been toast.
That said I do believe the incident made everybody look bad, it just does when people start yelling no matter who started it.
Dreamer
Regular Member
Alabama is a "one party consent" state with regards to recording. Also, recording in a public place where there is no expectation of privacy is completely legal. The LEO had no legal right to order you to turn off your camera....
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The LEO had no "reasonable expectation of privacy". I will be glad once this matter makes it to the SCOTUS.
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
"Your pistol permit does not allow you to carry .... uh... and I can show you my permit it says. I am - uh, I Was a law enforcement officer for six years...."
Don't show me your permit, show me your frackin' identification as an officer or bugger the eff off.
Don't show me your permit, show me your frackin' identification as an officer or bugger the eff off.
robdoar
Regular Member
When you OC you are an ambassador. You cannot engage in heated debate to ignorant bystanders interjecting their opinions. You have to display impressive calm, and be the most polite, professional, and reasonable person on earth. You need to leave the manager thinking, wow, why did I ever ask that guy to leave?
A correct response to Mr. Ex Cop would have been:
"Sir, you're misinformed. I apologize that exercising my rights causes you to feel uncomfortable, but they are my rights none the less. The manager and I have an agreement, and this is not your concern. If you want more info on lawful open carry in Alabama, I'd be happy to inform you of the pertinent statutes, but I will not engage in an argument."
His wife/mom the other ex-cop was vindictive and anything but helpful to the situation.
If you want to sway the "indifferent" public's opinion toward OC, this is not the way. He did more harm than good from a PR pov.
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HandyHamlet
Regular Member
This further solidifies my personal decision to NEVER talk to (abrasive) civilians. I owe no one an explanation while exercising my rights.
However, if someone has some game proven strategy to win the hearts and minds of f*cktards and shares it with us I may reconsider.
Nice unlawful order by the guy with a badge to turn the camera off too. Nice.
When someone produces video showing that this actually works to placate some crazy stranger who has no quams about verbally assaulting an armed citizen I'll host a parade.
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robdoar
Regular Member
You can't win an argument with a "f**ktard". You can only take the higher ground. State your case calmly, or ignore him. No good can come of a heated argument.
HandyHamlet
Regular Member
10-4
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Amen to that!
Agreed. The man was obviously against carrying so he should not even spoke to him. I would have informed him that it was legal and if he wanted to debate to too bad. Sit there, wait for your money back, and leave.
This man needs a muzzle for that lady. (his wife?) Her getting all excited jumping up and down like a jack russel $*#%ing terrior didn't help the situation.
"OMFG YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY THAT HIS THAT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT"
Yes, he has a right to be an idiot. Sorry. Everyone has the right to be stupid like this man that was jumping your case...
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VW_Factor
Regular Member
ugggg... I can't stand when people act like that. Even listening to it, was.. /shudder..
I didn't last 5 seconds after the yakkin started.
I didn't last 5 seconds after the yakkin started.
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
I saw a lot happening in this video and nearly none of it was good. The only one who seemed to act rationally was the manager. If you are asked to either leave your firearm in your car or leave the premises, well then you've got a decision to take. The property rights of the owner or manager trump your right to carry a firearm when on his property. It's really as simple as that.
The carrier should have quietly and respectfully appealed to the manager first and then if the manager was steadfast, go ahead and take one of the decisions mentioned in the above paragraph. Again, doing so quietly and respectfully. As for the fellow who interjected himself into the fray, just ignore him. He is of no consequence and therefore deserves no response or consideration returned by the carrier. Both screwed up in my opinion.
An then there is the responding officer. He would not have been there, most likely, had the carrier done what I just described. So the carrier and his family could have moved off to another restaurant and had their meal the way they wished and all would have been well.
The carrier should have quietly and respectfully appealed to the manager first and then if the manager was steadfast, go ahead and take one of the decisions mentioned in the above paragraph. Again, doing so quietly and respectfully. As for the fellow who interjected himself into the fray, just ignore him. He is of no consequence and therefore deserves no response or consideration returned by the carrier. Both screwed up in my opinion.
An then there is the responding officer. He would not have been there, most likely, had the carrier done what I just described. So the carrier and his family could have moved off to another restaurant and had their meal the way they wished and all would have been well.
GLOCK21GB
Campaign Veteran
Moron ex cop !
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Yup, he should have got up and left, period. Any conversation he had should have been with the manager outside, I would not even have bothered with that. And what kind of moron waits for the police when they have done nothing wrong. As it stood the cop would have taken a report and moved on or stopped the car on the road, since no crime was committed that was unlikely. A tidbit cops like it when parties involved in an argument leave.
If he would have left the franchise owner would have sent him vouchers for food, if he called, that is how they handle complaints. My wife had a drive up make a mistake and she called just to inform them not to ask for anything, and it resulted in a $25 voucher for a $10 purchase. That was not the intent of her call but there was no need for him to ask for a refund at that time. As for the manager I disagree, he became a spectator with deer in the headlights reaction. He froze and did not eject all parties as he should have. He also should have known the law and informed the cop wannabe to leave if he had a problem. Evidently the gun was not making him nervous enough to shut his mouth.
.45acp
Regular Member
In my mind this whole episode was unnecessary, you cannot argue with moronic idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
If the OC’er had just ignored the moron in the UofA shirt instead of rising to the bait it would not have turned into a yelling match in a fast food joint. There was no reason to continue the conversation…he had already decided to leave, had his money…..it was time to go.
The OC’er’s big mouth GF did not help matters much either, she should have stayed out of it.
Stand up for your rights…..but we need to be aware that just because you are right….it does not mean you win the encounter.
If the OC’er had just ignored the moron in the UofA shirt instead of rising to the bait it would not have turned into a yelling match in a fast food joint. There was no reason to continue the conversation…he had already decided to leave, had his money…..it was time to go.
The OC’er’s big mouth GF did not help matters much either, she should have stayed out of it.
Stand up for your rights…..but we need to be aware that just because you are right….it does not mean you win the encounter.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Amen to that!
I think a DC charge would have held up on all three parties in the argument.