How NOT to win hearts and minds open carrying...

HandyHamlet said:

10-4

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I just love that cop talk...

I wonder why he's an EX cop... :uhoh: ...ok, not really.

WalkingWolf said:

As for the manager I disagree, he became a spectator with deer in the headlights reaction. He froze and did not eject all parties as he should have. He also should have known the law and informed the cop wannabe to leave if he had a problem. Evidently the gun was not making him nervous enough to shut his mouth.

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What I meant when I said that the manager acted the most rational was that he did not get into a p*ss**g contest as the others had. I do agree that his just standing around and allowing this type of behavior to continue in his establishment was not being a manager. He should have ended this as soon as possible both for his peace of mind as well as for his employees and other customers.

robdoar said:

You can't win an argument with a "f**ktard". You can only take the higher ground. State your case calmly, or ignore him. No good can come of a heated argument.

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Ya just can't fix stupid.

Fallschirmjäger said:

"Your pistol permit does not allow you to carry .... uh... and I can show you my permit it says. I am - uh, I Was a law enforcement officer for six years...."

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I'm thinking,........Mall Cop?

Wait...

Someone who admits to not being a law enforcement officer (LEO)....

And who doesn't volunteer that he is a lawyer....

Is dispensing legal advice....

And has already admitted he has no authority in any situation....

Where was the issue besides tell him to shut up and go away?

Am I the only one who was on the edge of my seat waiting for the Redheaded punk to get shot as he aggressively advanced toward the woman and her child?
I only saw one problem, and it was the redheaded punk.

Another example of why not to engage citizens who want to cause problems because of their own personal fears.

I love it when people say, "well we'll just see what the police think/have to say about that." Why are so many people under the impression that police officers are the decision makers on what is right or wrong? They simply (well this is all they're suppose to do) enforce the laws on the books. It doesn't matter what the police thin/have to say about that. It is either legal or illegal.

WalkingWolf said:

Yup, he should have got up and left, period. Any conversation he had should have been with the manager outside, I would not even have bothered with that. And what kind of moron waits for the police when they have done nothing wrong. As it stood the cop would have taken a report and moved on or stopped the car on the road, since no crime was committed that was unlikely. A tidbit cops like it when parties involved in an argument leave.

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Not in my experience ... and whether a cop likes it or not is beside the point. If I haven't done anything wrong, and someone calls the cops, then I will stay there to state my side ... after a few times of that, you get a reputation for being reasonable and easy to talk to which can help out in other situations.

I do agree that letting UofA and 'mom' get involved was a mistake. Better would have been to ask the manager to speak to him privately.

I did think it was funny when the tall black man got in and tried to get UofA to back off and behave LOL

It was undoubtedly the "ex-cop customer" about whom the manager said complained and was scared. I've come across three ex-cops while OCing, none of them were employed as local law-enforcement. While local LE has no problem with OC, the three non-local ex-cops all said the same things, including "it scares people," "you're on the verge of inciting a riot," and "you could be cited for disorderly conduct / disturbing the peace."

Really?

In my experience, it's these overly-aggressive do-gooders who disturb the peace (mine), and are on the verge of inciting a riot by creating trouble where none existed before. I'd love to find out who that mustache-carrying gent is and send him a copy of this video along with a copy of applicable Alabama state law.

On the other hand, the OCer and his wife tag-teamed the dude, and were NOT exactly "smooth" in their approach. The woman had the right approach, but getting angry and firing off with a shrill voice in an argumentative tone in the middle of the store is bad form. One or the other would have been fine, provided it was in a calm, subdued manner. Neither were calm or subdued.

robdoar said:

When you OC you are an ambassador. You cannot engage in heated debate to ignorant bystanders interjecting their opinions. You have to display impressive calm, and be the most polite, professional, and reasonable person on earth. You need to leave the manager thinking, wow, why did I ever ask that guy to leave?

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+1. Excellent.

A correct response to Mr. Ex Cop would have been:

"Sir, you're misinformed. I apologize that exercising my rights causes you to feel uncomfortable, but they are my rights none the less. The manager and I have an agreement, and this is not your concern. If you want more info on lawful open carry in Alabama, I'd be happy to inform you of the pertinent statutes, but I will not engage in an argument."

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I'd probably have listened to him without arguing for a few moments before saying, "Sir, I appreciate your input. In the meantime, I need to finish my conversation with the manager. Excuse me, please."

If the ex-cop persisted, I'd have asked the manager, "Is there some place we can go that's more private so we can continue our conversation?"

Both lines are loaded, and I've used them in similar circumstances (not involving 2A stuff). They work, especially when one takes the high road as robdoar described it.

As for sharing with the LE arriving on the scene, the KISS principle is best: "The manager asked me to leave and I was doing so when another patron began badgering us."

You should have told the ahole ex-cops to go back to Kalifornia where they belong.