A tale of OC'ing in portsmouth :banghead:

nilla · Sep 9, 2011

i appreciate everyone's helpful responses. this thread has more replys than i expected, and it is really covering alot more facets than i thought it would have.

thank you for posting the DG phone #. had i actually tried to look any harder, i would have easily found it my self. somehow ... GOOGLE KNOWS EVERYTHING!

this after noon i got thru to someone, and was providing information of the events when the call was ended without notice at the stroke of 1659 EST. i did not loose signal, or hang up on my end, nor was i driving thru a tunnel.
my mind can only ponder what happened. i called back, but the line rang for just over 6 minutes until the call was eneded again in the same manner.
looks like i can put down my 'shovel' until monday. the digging will have to wait

looking back on it all now; i really made an ass-hat out of my self when i did not abandon my items and family in the aisle, but instead tried to convince an un-convinceable clerk.

when i asked the clerk about signage; i was not trying to hint at there should be signs on the store front. i knew that there were none, and i was exploring the clerk's lack of knowledge on the store policy.
she appeared to be clueless about the store policy (i was making the assumption that it was permitted, given the lack of signage)

it was 1930 hours, so i did not think to call upper management/supervision. had it been earlier in the day, it would have crossed my mind to ask to speak to the store manager. i still don't think i would have drawn my phone ...

the digital audio recorder sounds like it would be a useful tool. the only ones i have right now expire after about 2 hours. although it's use may be few and far between, it would be indispensable to have a record of events like this. ... especially if i would have behaved my self like a big-boy.

nilla · Sep 9, 2011

HandyHamlet said:
I am serious with this question and not trying to be flip.

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again. Why answer them or acknowledge them at all? Why answer any questions? Why give any explanation. Why answer any question from a drone in a smock? It is absolutely none of their business what your occupation is.

These haters of freedom are obviously keyed up enough to confront a stranger with a handgun. They are not looking for explanations or debate. They will not have a change of heart because of the OCer's pleasant charisma or demeanor. They only wish to impose their twisted rage and will on the hapless OCer.

Picturing the OCer as some sort of ambassador during this part of a confrontation seems a bit overly optimistic to say the least. Now how the OCer handles the manager and corporate after the negative encounter is a different story.

handyhamlet; wow... i'll not be flip either. i'll try to answer your questions directly.
it'd be rude not to answer or acknowledge them at all. an explanation of one's reasoning/occupation may be enough to at least calm nerves, if nothing else.
i find that most people are just genereally un-eduaceted about OCing, and fear is the natural reaction to something you don't know about. like little kids and the 'dark'
i'm not convinced that this woman was trying to hate on my 2A parade up and down the aisles. again, this instance was more about her fear than of her twisted rage.
i absolutely feel that i am an 'ambassador' of sorts when i OC. if i go out strapped and make a danmed fool of my self and get my story in the news; it would cast a more negative shadow on those of us who do choose to OC.
'hey, did you hear about that guy in _insert town_ that had a gun and did _something unacceptable__'
obviously when i called the store last week, the dramatic story of a violent man with a gun (me) getting upset and arguing with a clerk had been told to the shift manager, and i'm sure the rest of the DG's smock-wearing team.
i could not have made a posiitve and respectful first impression with management because this negative encounter would be the frist thing the mangement would hear of me, making this all the same story.

nilla · Sep 9, 2011

peter nap said:
Welcome to the site!

The one thing no one mentioned is never show your CHP. You shouldn't even have one...but it has NOTHING to do with OCing.

why should i refrain from showing my CHP? is there something wrong with displaying it?

-when i did so i was making a last-ditch effort to convince her, and obviously not thinking clearly-

nilla · Sep 9, 2011

deanf said:
In other words you will capitulate to their demands and shop there anyway.

it is reeeeeeaaally close and convieneint. like; i've walked there to get stuff, even when it's not a super-perfect day to be outside.

i put down my 3 options in no particualr order. shopping else where at least until this matter is settled would be the first option. CC'ing as to not upset anyone but allow my self some security would be next, and throwing in the towel being the last option for many reasons.

did i mention how close and convieneint it is? wally-world is like a half-hour minimum ordeal and a few bukks in gas. especailly at the high-traffic times of the day/evening. and i HATE HATE HATE traffic

nilla · Sep 9, 2011

skid and wolf posted up some good stuff. exaclty what i was looking for.

TFred · Sep 9, 2011

nilla said:
why should i refrain from showing my CHP? is there something wrong with displaying it?

-when i did so i was making a last-ditch effort to convince her, and obviously not thinking clearly-

Although I did not post the advice in question, I think I can take a pretty good shot at the answer.

Generally speaking your CHP is the proof of a license granted to you by the state to carry your handgun out of plain site. The law is extremely specific about to whom, and under what conditions you are required to display it. (The answer to that is found in the Code of Virginia, § 18.2-308, Paragraph H. Although it is a rather long and convoluted law, is something you should read and study thoroughly enough to be able to remember what's there and what's not.)

In short, it's none of their business whether you have or do not have a CHP. They are not an authority of the State, so it's simply not their concern, and you are not required to show it to them, or to reveal that you have it. There are actually risks associated with divulging the fact that you have a CHP. If the person knows your name and what city or county you live in, they can go to the local Court Clerk's office and make a copy of your CHP application and all that private information you provided in the process.

To provide a more complete answer, there are those who frequent here who are philosophically opposed to CHPs in general. And they have valid reasons for being so, not the least of which is that this is an Open Carry message forum.

Not at all to say that you or discussions on concealed carry are unwelcome here, you'll learn these personality quirks the longer you hang around.

Peter, I hope you find that explanation to be as amenable as it was intended to be.

TFred

peter nap · Sep 10, 2011

TFred said:
Peter, I hope you find that explanation to be as amenable as it was intended to be.

TFred

Pretty good TFred

I'll take it one step further without scaring the OP off ....hopefully.

First, there's nothing inherently evil about a CHP. It gets complicated but in a nutshell, we have a right to carry and we can carry openly without permission of any kind.

The powers that be, feel a permit is necessary to conceal. I'll leave that argument for another day, it's simply a fact and I'll accept it as such for now.

The permit is intended to give permission to hide your handgun on or about your person, nothing more. Unfortunately, over the last decade there has been an effort by some gun owners, mostly non Virginia transplants or city people who just discovered guns, to create an elite class of gun carry based on the permit. That's not a new idea, places like Massachusetts and DC have been doing that for years.

Every year bills to make permit holders superior to non permit holders are introduced. I came up with the acronym P4P (Perks for Permits). You'll hear that a lot here come November when the political rhetoric starts. When that begins, you'll see the voting block tearing apart at the seams with some of us trying to kill what others see as a pro gun move.

To keep this short, showing a permit to demonstrate that you have a right to OC, is a slap in the face to many of us. It is in essence saying "I'm special, so I can OC".

Think of your permit as a drivers license. You don't need it to walk and it doesn't give you any advantages in a foot race. To tell someone, "I'm faster than you because I have a drivers license" is both insulting to your opponent and pretty stupid logic.

HandyHamlet · Sep 10, 2011

nilla said:
handyhamlet; wow... i'll not be flip either.

Welcome to the forum. My question was not directed at you or your altercation per say. It was a general question as your story is hardly a rare topic around here. There are lots of posts here where crazy freaked out power tripping minions make up corporate policy on the spot as an excuse to kick OCers out. I don't see how ignoring one of these jokers could in any way be rude. They are the ones about to kick us out. Most don't know or care what their company policy actually is. Now THAT is rude. I just wonder what would happen if you just totally ignored them. Turn your camera on them and continue with your business. Of course if they trespass you, you would immediately leave.

TFred · Sep 10, 2011

peter nap said:
Pretty good TFred

I'll take it one step further without scaring the OP off ....hopefully.

First, there's nothing inherently evil about a CHP. It gets complicated but in a nutshell, we have a right to carry and we can carry openly without permission of any kind.

The powers that be, feel a permit is necessary to conceal. I'll leave that argument for another day, it's simply a fact and I'll accept it as such for now.

The permit is intended to give permission to hide your handgun on or about your person, nothing more. Unfortunately, over the last decade there has been an effort by some gun owners, mostly non Virginia transplants or city people who just discovered guns, to create an elite class of gun carry based on the permit. That's not a new idea, places like Massachusetts and DC have been doing that for years.

Every year bills to make permit holders superior to non permit holders are introduced. I came up with the acronym P4P (Perks for Permits). You'll hear that a lot here come November when the political rhetoric starts. When that begins, you'll see the voting block tearing apart at the seams with some of us trying to kill what others see as a pro gun move.

To keep this short, showing a permit to demonstrate that you have a right to OC, is a slap in the face to many of us. It is in essence saying "I'm special, so I can OC".

Think of your permit as a drivers license. You don't need it to walk and it doesn't give you any advantages in a foot race. To tell someone, "I'm faster than you because I have a drivers license" is both insulting to your opponent and pretty stupid logic.

You should bookmark this post to paste in when you get tired of explaining your position to people. Or for when you feel cranky and might not give such a gentlemanly response.

TFred

Lincoln7 · Sep 10, 2011

scouser said:
Obviously you didn't read what Skidmark said (just to give one example in this thread). I've only personally met Skid one time and found him to be a pleasant and interesting dinner 'host', for want of a better description. I've also read many things he says on OCDO, and here I've found him to very often be the voice of reason. In my opinion he gave some excellent advice as to how Nilla could improve and, better yet, why that particular improvement is a good idea. Just my $0.02

I didn't quote Skidmark in my post. I quoted a non constructive criticism from someone else. No doubt Skidmark gives some sage advice with nearly all he posts which is why I DID read what he wrote. My apologies for the off topic expanation.

papa bear · Sep 11, 2011

TFred said:
There is much truth here. If these folks were really half as scared as they claim to be, then they wouldn't even come near you, much less confront you about it.

TFred

my two cents is that, i want a chance to give, someone who is just on the fence about open carry, a positive experience to take away some the argument. i had a few people challenge the notion "gun saves lives", and i am sure that i convinced them that the statement is true. but not by brow beating to it.
remember some will challenge just because they do not know how to ask, and will either decide that OCer
s are fine or at least give them doubt about their own prejudices

nilla said:
why should i refrain from showing my CHP? is there something wrong with displaying it?

-when i did so i was making a last-ditch effort to convince her, and obviously not thinking clearly-

IMHO, i think one more reason not to show them you CHP, is because that would negate some of your reason to OC

ODA 226 · Sep 12, 2011

nilla said:
when i asked the clerk about signage; i was not trying to hint at there should be signs on the store front. i knew that there were none, and i was exploring the clerk's lack of knowledge on the store policy.

Please under NO CIRCUMSTANCES mention signage.

nilla · Sep 13, 2011

for my records

store # 10390
complaint reference # 101685438
i'm posting it on here because i'll loose the sticky i wrote it on

i'm waiting on the district manager to call me back.

protias · Sep 13, 2011

t33j said:
How were you dressed?

Why should that even matter?

t33j · Sep 13, 2011

protias said:
Why should that even matter?

It shouldn't. It does to some people.

Badger Johnson · Sep 13, 2011

nilla said:
store # 10390
complaint reference # 101685438
i'm posting it on here because i'll loose the sticky i wrote it on

i'm waiting on the district manager to call me back.

You can loose the dogs of war, you can loose an arrow but you can only lose your virginity once. (or so they say)

Badger Johnson · Sep 13, 2011

Funny story. I was a sophomore in college, had never seen a female form in the flesh, was a virgin and completely unaware of how to lose that status.

One day a girl appeared at my dorm window (first floor) and asked to come in. She climbed in the window (cue: Beatles "She Came in Through the Bathroom Window") and...well, the rest of the story is that I was a virgin no more.

Cut to 38 years later. After losing contact, I met up with that same girl on Facebook and we 'clicked' (again) and subsequently both got divorced and relocated here in Central Virginia in about 100 days from first contact (my divorce took a few months longer).

Yeah, she jokes about it and calls me her little virgin. (I'm neither little nor virginal, so ppppffffttt).

Baked on Grease · Sep 13, 2011

Badger Johnson said:
Funny story. I was a sophomore in college, had never seen a female form in the flesh, was a virgin and completely unaware of how to lose that status.

One day a girl appeared at my dorm window (first floor) and asked to come in. She climbed in the window (cue: Beatles "She Came in Through the Bathroom Window") and...well, the rest of the story is that I was a virgin no more.

Cut to 38 years later. After losing contact, I met up with that same girl on Facebook and we 'clicked' (again) and subsequently both got divorced and relocated here in Central Virginia in about 100 days from first contact (my divorce took a few months longer).

Yeah, she jokes about it and calls me her little virgin. (I'm neither little nor virginal, so ppppffffttt).

Sounds like you and I have something in common, sortof. I love hearing unique stories of how loved ones get together.

I had a friend in my neighborhood when I was 14, had some girl (from church) troubles and asked for my advice. I told him what I would do given the circumstances he related. 2 weeks later I hear he not only didn't take my advice but broke up with this girl I barely heard of nor ever met.

One year after, I had another friend in the BSA (boy scouts) with issues with his GF (from achool). I gave him advice (I had never had a girlfriend, nor realations with the opposite sex). Next day he does something completey stupid, exact opposite of my advice and they break up then and there. Never met his GF nor learned her name.

I guess you can see where this is headed.

When I went to senior year in high school I met this cute little brunette, and it wasn't until I almost graduated that I learned that it was her that both these friends had gone out with and messed up the relationship horribly. We've been married 3 years now with 1 son (so far) and glad of it. Almost sounds like something from a book.

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Baked on Grease · Sep 13, 2011

Funny how easily a thread can derail, huh? ><

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Badger Johnson · Sep 13, 2011

Well, soon after we got together, we took a CHP class and got our licenses, joined a shooting/conservation club, I bought her a shotgun and we go shooting paper targets and skeet and lived happily ever after.

Sometimes she open carries around the yard, gardening and weeding and tending the bird feeders. Being petite and sweet looking, nobody ever notices the Ruger LCR on her waist. Of course she has world-class 'Susan Sarandons', if you know what I mean, so they're just not looking...at her waist.

A tale of OC'ing in portsmouth :banghead:

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