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What if your employer is a School District?

mja1000

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
22
Location
Dodgeville, Wisconsin, USA
Ok, so I know our new law specifically points out that an employer may not restrict you from possessing a firearm in your vehicle, when parked in a parking lot Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(b). Yet, as we all know, firearms are strictly prohibited from "School Grounds".

"A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may
possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not
in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r."

So, if someone works for a public school district, would it be a felony for that employee to leave their gun in their car parked in the school parking lot? what if it was unloaded and encased? Would you have to unload and encase it before you pulled into the parking lot?

What do you guys think?
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
.... Would you have to unload and encase it before you pulled into the parking lot?
Yes... Not loaded and encased is required before being on school grounds. There is no exception for parking lots. It is not required to be in the trunk if you have a permit.
(2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:
3. That is not loaded and is:
a. Encased; or
b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
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Valhalla
Ok, so I know our new law specifically points out that an employer may not restrict you from possessing a firearm in your vehicle, when parked in a parking lot Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(b). Yet, as we all know, firearms are strictly prohibited from "School Grounds".

"A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may
possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not
in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r."

So, if someone works for a public school district, would it be a felony for that employee to leave their gun in their car parked in the school parking lot? what if it was unloaded and encased? Would you have to unload and encase it before you pulled into the parking lot?

What do you guys think?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the federal GFSZ law require that the permit be from the sate where the school is located? In other words, out-of-state permit means no free pass.

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf Section I 920(b)(ii)

so it looks as if your state law is in conflict with the federal law - and it will be some poor schmo's bad luck to encounter the one cop who wants to refer the bust to the Assistant Deputy United States Attorney in charge of mucking things up to create a federal felon when the victim was complying with state law.

stay safe.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
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May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
so it looks as if your state law is in conflict with the federal law - and it will be some poor schmo's bad luck to encounter the one cop who wants to refer the bust to the Assistant Deputy United States Attorney in charge of mucking things up to create a federal felon when the victim was complying with state law..
So far nobody has provided evidence of someone ever being prosecuted in any State under Federal GFSZ law while being in compliance with State law.
 
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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the federal GFSZ law require that the permit be from the sate where the school is located? In other words, out-of-state permit means no free pass.

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf Section I 920(b)(ii)

so it looks as if your state law is in conflict with the federal law - and it will be some poor schmo's bad luck to encounter the one cop who wants to refer the bust to the Assistant Deputy United States Attorney in charge of mucking things up to create a federal felon when the victim was complying with state law.

stay safe.

I don't think you're accurate about the federal law. It doesn't say that the person must have a permit from the state where the school is located, it says the person must be licensed by the state where the school is located. That's a subtle, but important distinction. Our law says that a person with an out-of-state permit or license IS licensed by Wisconsin for the purposes of the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act.

"175.60(2)(d) (d) For purposes of 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (ii), an out−of−state licensee is licensed by this state."
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
don't do it

Unless it's included in the written contract between you (generic person employed by school) & the school entity that you're allowed to have the gun on school GROUNDS, it's illegal under WI law.
Very illegal.
Felony illegal.
That could be an employment contract for regular teaching or maintenance or whatever, or a contract to teach a one-time class (Eddie Eagle, anyone?), or just general written permission from the principal that you (Joe Schmoe) may drive onto school property &/or come into the school while armed.

Unfortunately, that's one carveout they made when referencing federal law in Act 35. (PDF in my sig.)
Fed law says that with a permit issued by the state where the school is located, carry is allowed on the property & in the buildings. (I so very much want to visit UT!!)
WI deliberately did NOT reference that part in the revised "GF"SZ law for WI. :mad:

Now, will someone other than you know what's in that combination safe locked to & under your seat?
Unlikely.
And of course, the law won't stop someone intent on mass murder.
But it'd be legal to park on the street, not legal to park in the secured school parking lot.
 

MKEgal

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Messages
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in front of my computer, WI
Shotgun said:
I don't think you're accurate about the federal law. It doesn't say that the person must have a permit from the state where the school is located, it says the person must be licensed bythe state where the school is located.
Also in the federal law is a phrase something like
"and before issuing such license, a background check is run by law enforcement of the state".
So unless WI checks everyone who carries near a school, it isn't legal.
Not that they're likely to get in trouble for only doing that, no.

Interesting subpoint just occurred to me...
IF an OOS licensee is stopped by a WI LEO for whatever reason,
and that LEO runs a bg check,
would that person then be legal to carry near a school in WI? :question:
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Also in the federal law is a phrase something like
"and before issuing such license, a background check is run by law enforcement of the state".
So unless WI checks everyone who carries near a school, it isn't legal.
Not that they're likely to get in trouble for only doing that, no.

Interesting subpoint just occurred to me...
IF an OOS licensee is stopped by a WI LEO for whatever reason,
and that LEO runs a bg check,
would that person then be legal to carry near a school in WI? :question:

Not quite. It says they have to "verify" that the person is qualified to be licensed. Presumably this means legally able to possess a firearm. Wisconsin-issued license holders are verified by virtue of the background check conducted at the time of the issuance of the CCW license. Out-of-state licenses/permits are not valid in Wisconsin unless the issuing state required a similar background check or the person voluntarily submitted to a background check. So both WI license holders and recognized out-of-state permit/license holders are all "verified."
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
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Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
I agree with you Interceptor, 175.60(15m)(b) doesn't hold water in this case as it is not the School District (employer) that is prohibiting.

Well in a way it IS the School District that is prohibiting it, since it is within their authority to grant permission.
 

oliverclotheshoff

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
845
Location
mauston wi
lets think about this

teachers are public employees therefor they workfor the state, county, city whichever it may be, and the state being over all lower levels is technically the employer and therefore they are prohibiting you from keeping a firearm in your vehicle

would this could this argument hold up??????????
 

bmwguy11

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
461
Location
wisconsin
lets think about this

teachers are public employees therefor they workfor the state, county, city whichever it may be, and the state being over all lower levels is technically the employer and therefore they are prohibiting you from keeping a firearm in your vehicle

would this could this argument hold up??????????
I don't think so. It's not the employer that is preventing you. It's federal law.
 

mja1000

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
22
Location
Dodgeville, Wisconsin, USA
Then you have answered your own question~~no offense to anyone on this board but you should be asking a lawyer for this type of advice if you decide to take chances.

Absolutely, I was just posting to get opinions...and to show the danger of the generalized statements in the DOJ FAQ. "Employers can not prohibit you from you securing your gun in your vehicle on the employer's property". Well....I guess that all depends on WHO your employer is....doesn't it.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I agree with you Interceptor, 175.60(15m)(b) doesn't hold water in this case as it is not the School District (employer) that is prohibiting.

Well in a way it IS the School District that is prohibiting it, since it is within their authority to grant permission.

Absolutely, I was just posting to get opinions...and to show the danger of the generalized statements in the DOJ FAQ. "Employers can not prohibit you from you securing your gun in your vehicle on the employer's property". Well....I guess that all depends on WHO your employer is....doesn't it.


This is WAY more simple that you guys are making it to be. They are 2 separate and autonomous statutes. They are absolutely independent.
The School District choosing not to give you explicit permission to carry on school grounds (parking lot) is not the same as them prohibiting you from carrying in the parking lot. No amount of rationalization or wishful thinking is going to change these facts.
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
The School District choosing not to give you explicit permission to carry on school grounds (parking lot) is not the same as them prohibiting you from carrying in the parking lot.

So if I stood holding you at gunpoint I'm not prohibiting you from leaving, I'm just not giving you explicit permission to leave. Ok. Fair enough. Makes all the difference in the world. Got it.
 
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