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Thread: Lawmakers pass ban on openly carrying unloaded gun

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Lawmakers pass ban on openly carrying unloaded gun

    California lawmakers have sent the governor a bill making it a misdemeanor for openly carrying an unloaded handgun in public, a practice popular among certain gun enthusiasts. The Assembly on Friday passed AB144 on a 44-30 vote after it was approved by the Senate. Full Story
    One Giant Step Backwards in CA, this is a shame and hopefully will be challenged and over turned quickly upon coming into law.
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    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I hate what some "states/communisms" in this country is coming to.
    All if the government officials don't want "open carry" legal in California because of their views on guns. I'm sure they've not taken the opinions of citizens, and if they have they've obviously only listened to the opinions of those oppose to guns.
    They think that banning open carry is going to help with the "crime rate" but in all reality, how many robbers and criminals walk around toting a firearm on their hip?? Very few. They don't want attention drawn to them so the firearm they use is going to concealed on themselves so no one knows they have it.

    Reading this makes me thankful for living in Kentucky, and the gun laws in this state. If you are 18 or older and are not a felon then you are free to open carry anywhere in the state except k-12 schools, or into federal buildings banned by federal law. And the exception of no LOADED firearms in bars.

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    I'm not stateside, has any of this reached the news media in the northwest?

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    This is a shame, but not surprising. Now they should push for a new law allowing "Loaded Open Carry" and leave that law on the books along with it.
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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Eventually the SCOTUS will have to deal with the "bear arms" aspect of the 2nd ammendmant for what it is-the right to carry on ones person as it was intended not just to own in your home (The "keep" portion of the ammendmant). this will end all the california/chicago/new york civil rights violation.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Sounds like a win for CA. Right now to OC in CA it has to be unloaded. So if they make it illegal to OC unloaded that means it now has to be loaded to be legal? That's the way I take it, but you know it's all in the wording and how it is interpreted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Sounds like a win for CA. Right now to OC in CA it has to be unloaded. So if they make it illegal to OC unloaded that means it now has to be loaded to be legal? That's the way I take it, but you know it's all in the wording and how it is interpreted.

    Good point. It is written poorly and much will be left to interpetation..

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    I have not looked up all the firearms laws for Cali, was there a bill that had specifically banned open carry of loaded firearms? If not, and this new bill has rectified the "must carry unloaded" bill, then I would sure take it as carrying loaded is legal.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wobbles View Post
    I have not looked up all the firearms laws for Cali, was there a bill that had specifically banned open carry of loaded firearms? If not, and this new bill has rectified the "must carry unloaded" bill, then I would sure take it as carrying loaded is legal.
    If I recall correctly existing law in CA prohibited the open carry of a LOADED firearm. Thus everyone carried UNLOADED to skirt the original law. This law is merely closing the loophole as I understand.

    Washington Law only regulates the carry of Concealed Firearms as the right to carry is spelled out in the State Constitution,, Article 1, Section 24. Everyone is allowed to carry a firearm for Self Defense and only require a permit if concealed.

    California isn't quite as generous in their State Constitution although it's moot now with the McDonald decision. It's now a matter of getting all California's over-regulation of firearms and manner of carry hauled into Court so the Justices can explain to them where it's at.
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    Actually in the long run this should be a victory for California gun owners.

    1) Current law makes it almost impossible to get a carry permit (May Issue) and therefore effectively bans concealed carry.

    2) Current law makes open carry (loaded) illegal within any incorporated area (cities and towns) or in any prohibited areas in unincorporated areas. This means that you can't carry a loaded firearm most places you might go.

    3) The current unloaded law allows police to stop you and inspect your firearm any time they want. If you choose to carry you can and will be stopped and searched on a regular basis.

    By passing a bill that criminalizes the only method of carry available to Californians the state has effectively eliminated the right of Californians to bear arms.

    This should, based on recent Supreme Court decisions and pending decisions in a variety of states (Illinois, Maryland, NY come to mind), result in a court victory that will require California to either liberalize their permit system (switch to Shall Issue) or throw out the laws regarding open carry.

    I know it seems like a setback but the recent rulings stating that the Second Amendment confers an individual right have strengthened our ability to win court cases. California gun owners are now in a stronger position to win and get a better system than they currently have (which sucks, btw). Sorry but the option of carrying an unloaded gun <b>and</b> being harassed by the police for it is not particularly American.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Yeah, it's a great victory for Ca. gun owners, if they don't mind waiting 10 years for the court cases to be decided and result in a possible win. So, in the meantime, if you buy yourself a new handgun, how do you get it home from the store. You probably don't have one of those impossible to get CC licenses, you can't LOC and, now, you can't UOC. What legal option exists.
    Case & Carry
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Yeah, it's a great victory for Ca. gun owners, if they don't mind waiting 10 years for the court cases to be decided and result in a possible win. So, in the meantime, if you buy yourself a new handgun, how do you get it home from the store. You probably don't have one of those impossible to get CC licenses, you can't LOC and, now, you can't UOC. What legal option exists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Case & Carry
    Or move.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Or move.
    ding ding ding ding!

    I had the chance to move to CA once when I was 15ish. My mom met a guy from Sacramento and moved in with him. Choosing to stay here with my dad was the single greatest choice I ever made.
    Last edited by SovereignAxe; 09-12-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnburns15 View Post
    I hate what some "states/communisms" in this country is coming to.
    All if the government officials don't want "open carry" legal in California because of their views on guns. I'm sure they've not taken the opinions of citizens, and if they have they've obviously only listened to the opinions of those oppose to guns.
    They think that banning open carry is going to help with the "crime rate" but in all reality, how many robbers and criminals walk around toting a firearm on their hip?? Very few. They don't want attention drawn to them so the firearm they use is going to concealed on themselves so no one knows they have it.

    Reading this makes me thankful for living in Kentucky, and the gun laws in this state. If you are 18 or older and are not a felon then you are free to open carry anywhere in the state except k-12 schools, or into federal buildings banned by federal law. And the exception of no LOADED firearms in bars.
    O, but they HAVE listened to the voters opinions, and its why they know they will get away with this law until the courts sort it out. The people of California by and large love their nanny state, and that's why they continually vote in the politicians that they do when they know that it means the loss of liberty in exchange for "freebies". Your typical liberal never met an entitlement at the cost of an individual freedoms, that they didn't like.

    Overall, I agree with what some others have said, that this is probably one of the best things that could have happened for California, as now it will force the hand of those who believe that the 2nd Amendment is a right and not a privilege. Put up or shut up. No more dancing around the unconstitutional laws if they care for their freedoms, its either change them or get out of the state and leave it to crash and burn.

    I think the California legislature may have just given the 2nd Amendment activists in that state the kick in the butt that they needed. Let the battle begin.

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    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I do agree that it could be a great thing for the state. But I also agree that it'll take time for this to happen. You can expect delay after delay, nit to mention the money it is going to cost someone just so they can exercise their right to bear arms.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    O, but they HAVE listened to the voters opinions, and its why they know they will get away with this law until the courts sort it out. The people of California by and large love their nanny state, and that's why they continually vote in the politicians that they do when they know that it means the loss of liberty in exchange for "freebies". Your typical liberal never met an entitlement at the cost of an individual freedoms, that they didn't like.
    Just remember, when the Creator made this continent he tipped it on its side. All the loose pieces went to California.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Yeah, it's a great victory for Ca. gun owners, if they don't mind waiting 10 years for the court cases to be decided and result in a possible win. So, in the meantime, if you buy yourself a new handgun, how do you get it home from the store. You probably don't have one of those impossible to get CC licenses, you can't LOC and, now, you can't UOC. What legal option exists.
    Not sure if you are serious or sarcastic so I'll answer your point seriously. Right now California might as well be Communist Russia when it comes to firearms. You can't get a permit, you can't carry loaded without a permit, and you can and will be harassed by the police if you carry unloaded. You can unload the firearm, put it in a case, and put it in your vehicle so long as the ammo is separate and not easily accessible to the firearm. This wasn't going to change, even with court cases, because you technically had the right to bear arms. Now that the legislature has taken away your only means to carry an easily accessible firearm as protected by the Supreme Court, they have opened the door for that suit. I understand that there is a frustration with the time it will take, but the reality is (and I lived in California for six years when and after I was in the military) that there was no actual legitimate means of protecting yourself under the laws as they were written. This is a step forward in a state where there have been no forward steps in years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heresolong View Post
    This is a step forward in a state where there have been no forward steps in years.
    I don't believe that calling it a "step forward" is the right thing to name this, although I know what you mean. I agree with all those saying it's a step that will force action to be taken. I'm scared to think of how long it will take to overturn this in the name of the Constitution, and what other bills could be introduced as a result of this one. I personally, will not be taking any trips down to California until I can carry while doing so. I guess Disney World will have to do.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    No Step Forward

    I don't see how removing a citizen's only means of self-defense as a 'step forward'. Sure, law abiding citizens will no longer be hassled by police (because they will be unarmed), sure these asinine laws MAY be repealed 5-10 years down the road and put Kalifornia on the road to being a more free state -- but now, no law abiding citizen can defend themselves in the State of California. All law abiding citizens have been dutifully disarmed at the behest of a few reactionaries who think that carrying a visible and unloaded gun is a problem. Personally I think UOC is a horrible way to carry, but it was all Californians had. I hope I NEVER have to live in such a state. I haven't set foot in the Democratic People's Republik of Kalifornia in nearly 2 years; and I would die happy if I never set foot there again for as long as I live.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Just remember, when the Creator made this continent he tipped it on its side. All the loose pieces went to California.
    You know, they have to collect somewhere. I just wish they would stop drifting north.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Case & Carry
    This makes me wonder...

    Is loaded carry in a locked case legal in California? How about unloaded carry in a locked case?

    What constitutes a case? If your holster fully encloses the gun, and requires a keyed lock, combination lock or biometric lock to open and release the gun, would it qualify as a case?

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Just remember, when the Creator made this continent he tipped it on its side. All the loose pieces went to California.
    He didn't shake hard enough, or they would have gone into the ocean!

    The legislature there has set the state up for a really expensive lawsuit, which they will lose just like D.C. and Chicago did.
    I guess it's the only way they'll learn.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Just remember, when the Creator made this continent he tipped it on its side. All the loose pieces went to California.
    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    He didn't shake hard enough, or they would have gone into the ocean!
    He's saving that for later, you know, the "Big One". Then everyone will be able to moor their ocean going boats in downtown Phoenix.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Mexifornia will be sure that only the criminals are armed and can overpower the citizens and the police can do nothing about it.
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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I suppose if the "Nationwide Recoprocity Bill" passess any out of state CC holder will be clear to carry CC loaded or unloaded in Californionia?

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