• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OT: First Ammendment being trampled in Michigan - SB 637

TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (Kahn) Mandates public school students to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance"

This bill would require all public schools to REQUIRE (presumably under the threat of disciplinary action) each student in said school to say the pledge of allegiance each day.

If this passes and my step-son decides not to say the pledge AND gets in trouble for it, I've got his back.

250px-Gadsden_flag.svg.png


How appalling! I thought this was settled case law as being against the first amendment! It violates the First Ammendment which is brought upon the States via the 14th.

I, for one (popular or not) do not always say the pledge, because I will not pledge my support to the current (nor under GW Bush) regime.

I should add: I'm not opposed to requiring the school teachers to lead (or attempt to lead) the class in the pledge of allegiance. I AM against punishing lil Jimmy because he chose not to participate.
 
Last edited:
S

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
You are not pledging allegiance to the government, Bush, Obama, Nixon or any of the other series of crooks who have held that office.

You are pledging allegiance to the flag and to the republic, the basic idea of our nation, for which it stands.

It is, of course, your right not to say it and I find it appalling that some politicians would force children to say it under threat of punishment.

Yes, the case law has been established that it is a violation of rights guaranteed by the First Amendment to force the Pledge.

All of that said, I have absolutely no respect for the cult behind the case law.
 
TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
SFCRetired said:
You are not pledging allegiance to the government, Bush, Obama, Nixon or any of the other series of crooks who have held that office.

You are pledging allegiance to the flag and to the republic, the basic idea of our nation, for which it stands.

It is, of course, your right not to say it and I find it appalling that some politicians would force children to say it under threat of punishment.

Yes, the case law has been established that it is a violation of rights guaranteed by the First Amendment to force the Pledge.

All of that said, I have absolutely no respect for the cult behind the case law.
Click to expand...

Sergeant First Class Retired. I respect that you did as our leaders ask you and thank you for your service -- even though I may not have agreed with your mission -- whatever it was.

"and to the Republic for which it stands"...

...I do not support our current degenerated republic how it stands. It's not the Republic I would choose. The Republic I would choose would be one that:

* Understands to regulate drugs (ie: Alchohol), we'd have to amend the Constitution (like we did with XVIII) since that power is not granted to the Federal Government.
* Understands the RKBA shall not be infringed -- at all -- until we repeal or modify the second amendment. My understanding of this is: if I want to make or purchase a nuke and keep it in my back yard, I can. (that action would be a bit extreme, granted)
* Understands the Federal Government has no power to prevent me from buying and consuming raw milk.
* Understands the FBI can't just come in my house whenever they think just have a "hunch" I am a terrorist without consulting the courts.
* Understands that before I get shipped out of the Country and locked up I have the right to a trial an my day in court.
* Underrstands the Federal Government has no Constitutional Authority to take my money, by force, and "redistribute" it to anyone else -- corporate welfare, individual welfare, the "progressive" income tax that a fair amount of people don't pay into at all but somehow manage to get a refund!

...this is just part of the list. When we get back to our Constitutional Republic I'll gladly say the pledge.

Until then, I'll withhold saying it when I see fit and you and I will just have to disagree and be civil -- or you can call me an unpatriotic ***** and I'll tell you that you don't truly understand what the thing we call "Liberty", that you fought for, means.

Your move, my fellow patriot.
 
TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
TheQ said:
Until then, I'll withhold saying it when I see fit and you and I will just have to disagree and be civil -- or you can call me an unpatriotic ***** and I'll tell you that you don't truly understand what the thing we call "Liberty", that you fought for, means.
Click to expand...

Interesting -- the language block. So can I ***** my finger as long as I don't finger my pr*ck?
 
J

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
TheQ said:
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (Kahn) Mandates public school students to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance"

This bill would require all public schools to REQUIRE (presumably under the threat of disciplinary action) each student in said school to say the pledge of allegiance each day.

If this passes and my step-son decides not to say the pledge AND gets in trouble for it, I've got his back.

250px-Gadsden_flag.svg.png


How appalling! I thought this was settled case law as being against the first amendment! It violates the First Ammendment which is brought upon the States via the 14th.

I, for one (popular or not) do not always say the pledge, because I will not pledge my support to the current (nor under GW Bush) regime.

I should add: I'm not opposed to requiring the school teachers to lead (or attempt to lead) the class in the pledge of allegiance. I AM against punishing lil Jimmy because he chose not to participate.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.... however, this should be in the general discussion area. John and Mike have this rule because if they didn't everyone would clog up other forums with other issues from everything from dog abuse to space exploration.
 
John Pierce

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
I think I am going to leave this one here. It is a civil rights issue based upon a Michigan specific law so perhaps the Michigan forum is the best place to leave this discussion.


John
 
M

mastiff69

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, United States
I was raised back when you said, or at least stood & put your hand on your heart, for your daily pledge.
That being said, no one should be punished for not saying your pledge period,
but at the same time if you chose not to pledge you should just stand their without making any disruptions (protesting etc..) as some knot heads will do to assert their displeasure to the class .
 
S

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
TheQ said:
Sergeant First Class Retired. I respect that you did as our leaders ask you and thank you for your service -- even though I may not have agreed with your mission -- whatever it was.

"and to the Republic for which it stands"...

...I do not support our current degenerated republic how it stands. It's not the Republic I would choose. The Republic I would choose would be one that:

* Understands to regulate drugs (ie: Alchohol), we'd have to amend the Constitution (like we did with XVIII) since that power is not granted to the Federal Government.
* Understands the RKBA shall not be infringed -- at all -- until we repeal or modify the second amendment. My understanding of this is: if I want to make or purchase a nuke and keep it in my back yard, I can. (that action would be a bit extreme, granted)
* Understands the Federal Government has no power to prevent me from buying and consuming raw milk.
* Understands the FBI can't just come in my house whenever they think just have a "hunch" I am a terrorist without consulting the courts.
* Understands that before I get shipped out of the Country and locked up I have the right to a trial an my day in court.
* Underrstands the Federal Government has no Constitutional Authority to take my money, by force, and "redistribute" it to anyone else -- corporate welfare, individual welfare, the "progressive" income tax that a fair amount of people don't pay into at all but somehow manage to get a refund!

...this is just part of the list. When we get back to our Constitutional Republic I'll gladly say the pledge.

Until then, I'll withhold saying it when I see fit and you and I will just have to disagree and be civil -- or you can call me an unpatriotic ***** and I'll tell you that you don't truly understand what the thing we call "Liberty", that you fought for, means.

Your move, my fellow patriot.
Click to expand...

Last part first: No, I won't call you an unpatriotic (epithet of your choosing here) as you have the courage of your convictions and I respect that.

Notice I did say the "idea" of our nation, not how it actually is. I do agree with you that what we now have is a perverted version of what the Founding Fathers envisioned.

As for the first part: The largest part of the mission I was engaged in was to prevent the Soviet Union from coming through the Fulda Gap and heading for the Rhine River. Thankfully, we never had to test the theory that we could stop them. But, for the record, I was on active duty when the Wall went up and again when it was torn down.

I will also tell you that, having lived in several other countries, this country, with all its warts and flaws, is still the most freedom-loving and the most respectful of its citizens' rights on the face of this planet. I would not care to live elsewhere.
 
TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
mastiff69 said:
at the same time if you chose not to pledge you should just stand their without making any disruptions (protesting etc..) as some knot heads will do to assert their displeasure to the class .
Click to expand...

That's called disrupting class and should subject a student to disciplinary action.

....though standing shouldn't be required. Sitting quietly should suffice.
 
Last edited:
C

CoonDog

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
532
Location
Farmington Hills, Michigan, USA
SFCRetired said:
Notice I did say the "idea" of our nation, not how it actually is. I do agree with you that what we now have is a perverted version of what the Founding Fathers envisioned.
Click to expand...
And yet the author of the pledge (a devout socialist) had quite a different "idea" of the nation than what the ff's (not a unified ideological body themselves) wrote in the US Constitution. The current perverted direction of the nation is exactly what Mr. Francis Bellamy, the author, had in mind. The pledge is socialist propaganda designed to sway thought away from the individual and towared support of the collective. By supporting the pledge, you are actually supporting Mr. Bellamy and the perverted direction the country has gone, are you not?
 
Last edited:
S

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
CoonDog said:
And yet the author of the pledge (a devout socialist) had quite a different "idea" of the nation than what the ff's (not a unified ideological body themselves) wrote in the US Constitution. The current perverted direction of the nation is exactly what Mr. Francis Bellamy, the author, had in mind. The pledge is socialist propaganda designed to sway thought away from the individual and towared support of the collective. By supporting the pledge, you are actually supporting Mr. Bellamy and the perverted direction the country has gone, are you not?
Click to expand...

No, in no way am I supporting Mr. Bellamy or his ideals. He may have written the Pledge, but I do not see his misguided ideas in it.

Gentle people, understand that I, like so many others, wrote a blank check to this nation a long time ago. That check, unlike the checks of so many of my brothers and sisters, was never cashed. The check started with an oath that I swore to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It finished with these words:

"I am an American soldier. I serve in the forces which guard our country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

No, our nation is not all that it can be. There are too many greedy, or even evil, politicians, and those who support them, who would, truth be known, be much happier were all of us under the unbearable yoke of slavery. It is up to each and every one of us who calls himself/herself "American" to make sure that yoke does not descend upon our necks.

I do not know whether any of you here have thought of it in this way, but what we do here on OCDO and in our various states' organizations is going a long, long way to keep our nation the most free nation on the planet. It eats into the very souls of people like George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, the entire Brady Bunch, and all of their fellow travelers that they cannot remove that one very important symbol of our freedoms; the right to own and carry a firearm.

May Almighty God grant in His Infinite Wisdom that it may ever be so!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top