Thejoyofdriving
Regular Member
Yea so with the way you described this scenario you sort of set yourself up to be harrassed. Airport lobby with a bag and a visble holster with no weapon in it is most definitley going to draw hoplophobic security and LE.
The problem you face is they assume you are a criminal and no talking/convincing otherwise is going to make them think different. You have a holster on which means you MUST have a gun, which means you MUST be up to criminal activity or terrorist intent. The amount of time allowed before somone approached you was them planning how to deal with you in case things went sour real fast, and to them refusing a search or voicing your rights is going sour.
Yea I know its BS but these are the fearful and illogical times we live in. So regardless of what you said or did, they were going to locate the weapon and run you for prior history, and finding none they would look for something to pin to you.
LE will makeup what ever story they wish to get you to comply, "federal property" is a verbal judo technique of using something that is difficult to refute because it sounds official but cant be disproved easily. LE pulled that out of his A** to manipulate you to stop arguing and comply. I suggest if you continue to OC do as much research as possible into Verbal Judo techniques to help you deal with this interaction. Also knowing your court cases and penal codes verbatim is also very helpful.
I dont think you will win the probale cause argument because you put the holster on and that is an indication you have a firearm somewhere in you possession. In court the Judge will probably not let you get away with it. Its almost the same as If a LE noticed a print of a handgun on your belt line when you bend over to pick up your bag. Since we are dealing with "gun" most LE figure you are criminal first and only law abiding citizen when you act submissive and show your papers. You were arguing and standing up for your rights from the get go, criminals that try to avoid LE contact do the same thing.
In all likelyhood you might have faired better if you were OC'ing with the weapon in plain view and unloaded, now you fall under the realm of PC 12025,12026 and 12031. All they could legally do would be to check loaded status and then they are done, anything else would have been a clear violation of your rights... Having it unseen, which is technically concealed, is what sent this interaction the way that it did.
You could have thrown U.S. v King at them "A firearm alone does not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity." However you possibly having a concealed weapon without immediately producing a ccw is what probably set off the LE to continue the detainment and search. Good point though is if you think the situation is going more bad than good, and you ask "Am I under arrest?" and the answer is no, then follow up with "am I being detained?" and they answer no, Immediately leave, even if your in a strange place, get into a cab and drive away. By staying you are with your actions making the encounter consensual and they can and will continue to poke and prod for info and make every attempt to get you to give them probable cause.
Sounds like you got off with out to much trouble, be sure next time you have 100% recording high quality capability when carrying in public, reading the transcript is great but hearing the tone and voice inflection and attitude would serve you better in the court, and the court of public opinion.
I certainly was not in the airport lobby. I was in a food court outside of the airport building, as i said. If they were worried about a concealed weapon on my person they could have just done a terry pat. The bag was sealed by a federal employee, there was no way it could have left the bag, searching it was pointless.