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Thread: A day without rights in the Wisconsin State Assembly

  1. #1
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    A day without rights in the Wisconsin State Assembly

    Our employees at work.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    This has nothing to do with Open Carry or the 2nd ammendment.

    FORUM RULES

    •(8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

    19.90 Use of equipment in open session. Whenever a governmental body holds a meeting in open session, the body shall make a reasonable effort to accommodate any person desiring to record, film or photograph the meeting. This section does not permit recording, filming or photographing such a meeting in a manner that interferes with the conduct of the meeting or the rights of the participants.

    This pathetic liberal has been dragged out of the Gallery and other parts of the captial many times. He and his group do not have a genuine interest in videotaping. The only want to create incendents that cause trouble that they can twist and put on youtube.

    I believe if you tell the you want to video tape, they will place down on the floor. That is reasonable. They violated Assembly Gallery rules while the Assembly did not violate 19.90 which does not state that the body shall allow any type of recording from anywhere in the chamber by anyone at anytime.

  3. #3
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Please use the Queen's English. Babel Fish will not translate your post.

    Even smelly hippies have rights afforded them by the Constitution. The Assembly's rules do not supersede our Constitution. Our elected employees have no authority to enforce unconstitutional rules.

    I posted here because it is a Wisco thing. Not to mention our 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th A rights go hand in hand.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-15-2011 at 02:42 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    How is it the Assembly rule unconstitutional if the can VR from the floor, but not the gallery?

    Your sorry attempt a humor is wasted.

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    I guess I don't see where it matters where this guy was filming from. Read the statute and it's clear as the ose on your face. I agree this isn't really gun related, but it certainly is appalling to say the least! Did this guy try to prevoke an incident? Probably so, but none the less, what he did was no different than some people strapping on a gun and going where they know there will be an issue just to prove a point... that they have the right to carry, provided by state statutes. It is the same, just different actions.

    How can an assemby rule trump a state statute? In fact, aren't the state police supposed to uphold the statutes and not a "rule"? Like I said, it's very disturbing to me to see this clip.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckdog
    they have the right to carry, provided by state statutes.
    Laws do not grant rights, they prevent the government from infringing them.
    At least, that's how it's supposed to work.
    The Constitutions (federal & state) tell our elected representatives & other public servants what they can't do to us.

    And yes, one of those protected things, as shown by laws, etc. quoted above, is photography of a public event, meeting, whatever you want to call it. That's just a more popular civil right than the one we're here to discuss, so more people will be mad about this incident.

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    'Sprocket:
    Of course this incident has something to do with right to carry, maybe not directly but it is part of our dilemma. It demonstrates just how ingrained the "police state" is in our political process. It shows how the legislature feels that it is above and beyond the reach of state statutes, ignoring state statutes, specifically directed at it, by simply writing a "rule". A Rule that strips we citizens of the statute privilege to video tape an open session but gives it exclusively to the press. It sends up a message to us concerning Act35, which we anxiuosly await. Act 35 is a state issued privilege. If the legislature feels it can butcher statute 19.90 by rule then what ominous things could be in waiting for statute 175.60 absent due process? There is real concern if the power of political control shifts after next years election. We must make it absolutely clear that we voters will not accept the legislature mentality that "Rules" triumph state statute, or that the legislature can play games with state statutes without due process. What happened in this video is despicable regardless the parties involved. This is a state were we rule by law. It is true that the "rules" in question generally address the conduct and decorum in the chambers and the way of doing legislative business but it is the mind set of the legislature and disregard for state law that is troublesome. We must make them know we are watching.

    19.90  Use of equipment in open session. Whenever a governmental body holds a meeting in open session, the body shall make a reasonable effort to accommodate any person desiring to record, film or photograph the meeting. This section does not permit recording, filming or photographing such a meeting in a manner that interferes with the conduct of the meeting or the rights of the participants.
    19.90 History History: 1977 c. 322.
    19.96 19.96  Penalty. Any member of a governmental body who knowingly attends a meeting of such body held in violation of this subchapter, or who, in his or her official capacity, otherwise violates this subchapter by some act or omission shall forfeit without reimbursement not less than $25 nor more than $300 for each such violation. No member of a governmental body is liable under this subchapter on account of his or her attendance at a meeting held in violation of this subchapter if he or she makes or votes in favor of a motion to prevent the violation from occurring, or if, before the violation occurs, his or her votes on all relevant motions were inconsistent with all those circumstances which cause the violation.
    19.96 History History: 1975 c. 426.
    19.96 Annotation The state need not prove specific intent to violate the Open Meetings Law. State v. Swanson, 92 Wis. 2d 310, 284 N.W.2d 655 (1979).
    19.97 19.97  Enforcement.
    19.97(1)(1) This subchapter shall be enforced in the name and on behalf of the state by the attorney general or, upon the verified complaint of any person, by the district attorney of any county wherein a violation may occur. In actions brought by the attorney general, the court shall award any forfeiture recovered together with reasonable costs to the state; and in actions brought by the district attorney, the court shall award any forfeiture recovered together with reasonable costs to the county.
    19.97(2) (2) In addition and supplementary to the remedy provided in s. 19.96, the attorney general or the district attorney may commence an action, separately or in conjunction with an action brought under s. 19.96, to obtain such other legal or equitable relief, including but not limited to mandamus, injunction or declaratory judgment, as may be appropriate under the circumstances.
    19.97(3) (3) Any action taken at a meeting of a governmental body held in violation of this subchapter is voidable, upon action brought by the attorney general or the district attorney of the county wherein the violation occurred. However, any judgment declaring such action void shall not be entered unless the court finds, under the facts of the particular case, that the public interest in the enforcement of this subchapter outweighs any public interest which there may be in sustaining the validity of the action taken.
    19.97(4) (4) If the district attorney refuses or otherwise fails to commence an action to enforce this subchapter within 20 days after receiving a verified complaint, the person making such complaint may bring an action under subs. (1) to (3) on his or her relation in the name, and on behalf, of the state. In such actions, the court may award actual and necessary costs of prosecution, including reasonable attorney fees to the relator if he or she prevails, but any forfeiture recovered shall be paid to the state.
    19.97(5) (5) Sections 893.80 and 893.82 do not apply to actions commenced under this section.
    19.97 History History: 1975 c. 426; 1981 c. 289; 1995 a. 158.
    19.97 Note Judicial Council Note, 1981: Reference in sub. (2) to a "writ" of mandamus has been removed because that remedy is now available in an ordinary action. See s. 781.01, stats., and the note thereto. [Bill 613-A]
    19.97 Annotation Awards of attorney fees are to be at a rate applicable to private attorneys. A court may review the reasonableness of the hours and hourly rate charged, including the rates for similar services in the area, and may in addition consider the peculiar facts of the case and the responsible party's ability to pay. Hodge v. Town of Turtle Lake, 190 Wis. 2d 181, 526 N.W.2d 784 (Ct. App. 1994).
    19.97 Annotation Actions brought under the open meetings and open records laws are exempt form the notice provisions of s. 893.80 (1). Auchinleck v. Town of LaGrange, 200 Wis. 2d 585, 547 N.W.2d 587 (1996), 94-2809.
    19.97 Annotation Failure to bring an action under this section on behalf of the state is fatal and deprives the court of competency to proceed. Fabyan v. Achtenhagen, 2002 WI App 214, 257 Wis. 2d. 310, 652 N.W.2d 649, 01-3298.
    19.97 Annotation Complaints under the open meetings law are not brought in the individual capacity of the plaintiff but on behalf of the state, subject to the 2-year statue of limitations under s. 893.93 (2). Leung v. City of Lake Geneva, 2003 WI App 129, 265 Wis. 2d 674, 666 N.W.2d 104, 02-2747.
    19.97 Annotation When a town board's action was voided by the court due to lack of statutory authority, an action for enforcement under sub. (4) by an individual as a private attorney general on behalf of the state against individual board members for a violation of the open meetings law that would subject the individual board members to civil forfeitures was not rendered moot. Lawton v. Town of Barton, 2005 WI App 16, 278 Wis. 2d 388, 692 N.W.2d 304, 04-0659
    19.98 19.98  Interpretation by attorney general. Any person may request advice from the attorney general as to the applicability of this subchapter under any circumstances.
    19.98 History History: 1975 c. 426.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 09-15-2011 at 09:59 AM.

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    Thanks Captain ... I agree with you 100%.

    Many of us carry recording equipment to protect against government abuse while exercising our gun rights. This is an example of government abuse.

    Does the assembly have something to hide from us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    This has nothing to do with Open Carry or the 2nd ammendment.

    FORUM RULES

    •(8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

    19.90 Use of equipment in open session. Whenever a governmental body holds a meeting in open session, the body shall make a reasonable effort to accommodate any person desiring to record, film or photograph the meeting. This section does not permit recording, filming or photographing such a meeting in a manner that interferes with the conduct of the meeting or the rights of the participants.

    This pathetic liberal has been dragged out of the Gallery and other parts of the captial many times. He and his group do not have a genuine interest in videotaping. The only want to create incendents that cause trouble that they can twist and put on youtube.

    I believe if you tell the you want to video tape, they will place down on the floor. That is reasonable. They violated Assembly Gallery rules while the Assembly did not violate 19.90 which does not state that the body shall allow any type of recording from anywhere in the chamber by anyone at anytime.
    As if this is the first time any of us have been "off topic"!

    Even some liberals and union members are gun ... and camera ... owners.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Is This A "Class Actionable" Event? Can The People Sue???

    First, thanks for posting Handy! Another insight into the corrupt government we have to deal with.

    Second: Can the People sue as in a "Class Action" lawsuit for this? It affects EVERYONE who tries to exercise the right to record our elected officials doing what we pay them for.

    Any lawyers out there who can chime in??
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    How is it the Assembly rule unconstitutional if the can VR from the floor, but not the gallery?

    Your sorry attempt a humor is wasted.
    I fail to see how my elected employees blatantly ******* on the Constitution is in any way humorous.

    News media may and was recording from the floor. But:

    Judge Lipez First Circuit Court:
    “...Gathering information about government officials in a form that can readily be disseminated to others serves a cardinal First Amendment interest in protecting and promoting ‘the free discussion of governmental affairs... Changes in technology and society have made the lines between private citizen and journalist exceedingly difficult to draw,” Judge Lipez wrote. “Such developments make clear why the news-gathering protections of the First Amendment cannot turn on professional credentials or status.”

    First Circuit Court:
    "Moreover, changes in technology and society have made the lines between private citizen and journalist exceedingly difficult to draw. The proliferation of electronic devices with video-recording capability means that many of our images of current events come from bystanders with a ready cell phone or digital camera rather than a traditional film crew, and news stories are now just as likely to be broken by a blogger at her computer as a reporter at a major newspaper. Such developments make clear why the newsgathering protections of the First Amendment cannot turn on professional credentials or status."



    So it has everything to do with carrying in Wisconsin as Captain Nemo and others have said.


    You are walking down the street. You are detained in a negative police encounter. They insist you stop recording because it's against the law. Since 9-11 you know. They didn't give you permission and you are breaking wiretap laws. You refuse to stop exercising your Constitutional right. They then arrest you for contempt of Cop and charge you with a felony, among other things, because you are armed and resisted. Think it can't happen? For every 2a advocate that gets stopped 100s of people photographing and recording are accosted by police and civilians alike.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    can we open carry during an open meeting while we are filming after the permits are issued?
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

    gunowners.org ~ lp.org ~ downsizedc.org ~ oathkeepers.org ~ campaignforliberty.com/usa/WI/ ~ goooh.com

  13. #13
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60 View Post
    can we open carry during an open meeting while we are filming after the permits are issued?
    As long as your local gov hasn't posted the building, which seems unlikely. And just because you can does not mean you won't be arrested for it.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60 View Post
    can we open carry during an open meeting while we are filming after the permits are issued?
    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    As long as your local gov hasn't posted the building, which seems unlikely. And just because you can does not mean you won't be arrested for it.
    as evidenced in the video
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

    gunowners.org ~ lp.org ~ downsizedc.org ~ oathkeepers.org ~ campaignforliberty.com/usa/WI/ ~ goooh.com

  15. #15
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60 View Post
    as evidenced in the video
    One video of hundreds unfortunately. And every day there are MORE videos. Not less.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  16. #16
    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    One video of hundreds unfortunately. And every day there are MORE videos. Not less.
    one day we'll just have to learn to submit to State Sponsored Terrorism..... until then, there will be alot of kicking and screaming.
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

    gunowners.org ~ lp.org ~ downsizedc.org ~ oathkeepers.org ~ campaignforliberty.com/usa/WI/ ~ goooh.com

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckdog View Post
    I guess I don't see where it matters where this guy was filming from. Read the statute and it's clear as the ose on your face. I agree this isn't really gun related, but it certainly is appalling to say the least! Did this guy try to prevoke an incident? Probably so, but none the less, what he did was no different than some people strapping on a gun and going where they know there will be an issue just to prove a point... that they have the right to carry, provided by state statutes. It is the same, just different actions.

    How can an assemby rule trump a state statute? In fact, aren't the state police supposed to uphold the statutes and not a "rule"? Like I said, it's very disturbing to me to see this clip.
    I agree, this is a diturbing Video.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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