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Thread: Local Mayor will Violate the New State Law Oct. 1

  1. #1
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    Local Mayor will Violate the New State Law Oct. 1

    The mayor in the city where I live in West Palm Beach said she will violate state law by not allowing weapons into City Hall. Let's see if she backs down. If not, I hope they make her the first example and remove her from office.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/je...c#commentsList

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Since we can't build a large wall, like in 'game of thrones', across the state starting at palm beach county, she needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, if she doesn't yield.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    The mayor in the city where I live in West Palm Beach said she will violate state law by not allowing weapons into City Hall. Let's see if she backs down. If not, I hope they make her the first example and remove her from office.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/je...c#commentsList
    Oh yes, have no fear. She will be sued. We're looking for a copy of her executive order. Any ideas?
    Rich
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    You need to round up 40 + folks and go to that City Hall.
    Bring a kiddie pool and however many gallons of water u need to half-fill it.
    Stock it w/ fish of your choosing.
    Break out yer fishing poles, and have an "Open Carry Fishing Event" in the lobby..




  5. #5
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with this woman is she thinks she is above the law. Yes, she needs her ego pruned good.

    What do you think she would say if you were to flaunt her "executive order" and tell her, well, you obviously do not think you need to follow the law, why should I?

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    Well the Mayor has changed her mind. She still can't let it go though. She wants to have people with a CCW escorted by a Police Officer to wherever they are going. Can she do that?


    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/westp...-in-city-hall/

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    Well the Mayor has changed her mind. She still can't let it go though. She wants to have people with a CCW escorted by a Police Officer to wherever they are going. Can she do that?


    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/westp...-in-city-hall/
    That's what they do when you visit the state capitol. Waste of time and resources, in my opinion.
    Rich
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    Glock 23 RTF2
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    Well the Mayor has changed her mind. She still can't let it go though. She wants to have people with a CCW escorted by a Police Officer to wherever they are going. Can she do that?


    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/westp...-in-city-hall/
    Yes, she can.

    Until she runs out of cops to do escort duty and you are delayed in conducting your legitimate business with the city government. (hint, hint, wink, wink)

    And what are the cops and Mayor going to do about that crowd of folks standing on the sidewalk outside waiting for their friends to finish their legitimate business inside, and to see what's going on with the lines snaking around the building, and just generally chit-chatting with each other in a public place?

    I know if I were to go to the City Hall and want to go to the Mayor's office to tell her how I felt about this policy and found she was not in/not available so I was reduced to hand-writing a letter of protest about being forced to have an armed police escort (a form of overt coercion that has a chilling effect on my ability to exercise my right to seek redress from government) I'd want to make sure that I wrote very clearly and with my best penmanship - which might take a lot longer than my usual scribbling. I might even need to ask once or twice about the spelling of certain words, as I would hate to present myself as an ignorant person by submitting anything with misspellings. And there is a really good chance that I might need to use the restroom facilities before I got to the Mayor's office, or while I was in there writing my letter, or even afterwards. And I'd surely hate to file a complaint about the invasion of my privacy by any police officer who became intrusive in "monitoring" me while I was attending to my physical needs.

    Not that I'm advocating any concerted effort to disrupt the workings of City Hall. I'm just wondering what might happen if a whole lot of folks showed up at about the same time for the same purpose. Know what I mean?

    Why, yes, I did read that book by Mr. Saul Alinsky once or twice. I also heard the story about what's good for the goose being good for the gander.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    That's what they do when you visit the state capitol. Waste of time and resources, in my opinion.
    They don't have enough resources to station an Officer at City Hall so you will have to wait for one to show. They are already overextended as it is. If they make you wait, will it be considered a violation of the law?

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    They don't have enough resources to station an Officer at City Hall so you will have to wait for one to show. They are already overextended as it is. If they make you wait, will it be considered a violation of the law?
    I believe it could be construed as an unlawful detention. Our legal team is looking into it, but right now it appears that it is still a preemption violation.
    Rich
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    So, will the $5,000 fine be used for a BBQ? I got the Mesquite.....

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    http://m.pbpost.com/pbpost/pm_32381/...tguid=lBNC30CL

    It's unlikely that gun-toting throngs will try to swarm city hall, and the mayor's new policy should make their visits sufficiently inconvenient for them to reconsider doing so again. Citizens have little business bringing guns into government buildings, and police escorts will let the city drive that point home without violating state law.
    It seems that this editorialist thinks making a law abiding citizen's visit to city hall "inconvenient" is a good idea.

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    The Palm Beach Post is a total joke. Although this was an editorial, even their regular stories are biased against CCW. I think it is a prerequisite to work there.

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    If they make you wait, will it be considered a violation of the law?
    If you're going about your legal business in a place you have a right to be and they hold you, that just might be considered "seizing" you under the 4th Amendment.

    SCOTUS has ruled that the cops can detain you for up to 20 minutes while they get a drug dog to sniff your car, but after that they have to let you go. In that case, you're suspected of commiting a crime. CCWing in the unrestricted areas of City Hall isn't a crime.

    Some legal insight on this is needed.

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    Japle:

    The Legal Insight is already there, and The Counsel provided by The Florida Open Carry Association is Correct.

    This Rogue Mayor has NO Authority to Regualte, in any Manner, by Administrative Order or otherwise, The Subject-matter of Firearms and Ammuniton for Firearms.

    Should This Mayor Promulgate This Administrative Order, before This Weekend, She IS in Violation of The Joe Carlucchi Uniform Firearms Act, but SHE CANNOT be Punished in any Manner whatsoever, aside from having Her ILLEGAL Administrative Order Ruled Invalid.

    However..., come This Saturday, if She Proports to do what She says She is going to do, then, not only is She in Violation of Florida Law, as Discussed in The Immidiately Preceeding Sentence of This Article, but She WILL Incur The Consequences and Ramifications of Her Actions in ALL of The Following Ways: 1 She WILL be Fined up to $5,000, 2 She will have a Court Apply a Permanent Injunction against Her Administrative Policy, thus Preventing The Police form Enforcing those Escorts, 3 She WILL be Terminated from Her Position of Trust by The Florida Governor, 4 She WILL Place The City in Danger of being Civilly Liable for up to $100,000, and 5 She WILL be The Reason that a Person can Sue The City, as a Result of This Administrative Order, for ALL Court Costs, Attorneys Fees, and a Contingentcy Fee Multiplier (to Accrue at Legal Interest as Measured form The Date when The Court Plea is Filed).

    ..., and to Think that EVERY Person who is Escorted has Grounds to Legally Sue!..., which means The City could have to Pay $100,000 per Complaint Times The Number of The Complaints who are Illegally Escorted around City Hall by The Police in Violation of The Joe Carlucchi Uniforms Firearms Act!...,

    I would Bet that The City Tax Payers would NOT be very Happy about having to Dole out more than $1 Million Dollars, if not more, should at least 10 Florida Concealed Carry Permitees show up This Saturday, Sunday, or on The First Business Day after The Enactment of This Legislative Act on Monday!

    If She is Smart, which, we Know She is NOT, but, She would Rescind Her Blantantly Illegal Administartive Policy by This Friday, while She can Escape The Consequences Discussed above.

    If not, then, that is Her Choice.

    As for that Reporter..., He is a Brain-washed 'uber'-Liberal..., as Usual.

    aadvark

    *** I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE Members of The Florida [OMIT] Carry Organization to Sue come Saturday, or at least by Monday, if Her Illegal Administartive Order is not Promptly Removed. ***
    Last edited by aadvark; 09-29-2011 at 04:01 PM.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Japle:

    The Legal Insight is already there, and The Counsel provided by The Florida Open Carry Association is Correct.

    This Rogue Mayor has NO Authority to Regualte, in any Manner, by Administrative Order or otherwise, The Subject-matter of Firearms and Ammuniton for Firearms.

    Should This Amyor Promulgate This Administrative Order, before This Weekend, She IS in Violation of The Joe Carlucchi Uniform Firearms Act, but SHE CANNOT be Punished in any Manner whatsoever, aside from having Her ILLEGAL Administrative Order Ruled Invalid.

    However..., come This Saturday, if She Proports to do what She says She is going to do, then, not only is She in Violation of Florida Law, as Discussed in The Immidiately Preceeding Sentence of This Article, but She WILL Incur The Consequences and Ramifications of Her Actions in ALL of The Following Ways: 1 She WILL be Fined up to $5,000, 2 She will have a Court Apply a Permanent Injunction against Her Administrative Policy, thus Preventing The Police form Enforcing those Escorts, 3 She WILL be Terminated from Her Position of Trust by The Florida Governor, 4 She WILL Place The City in Danger of being Civilly Liable for up to $100,000, and 5 She WILL be The Reason that a Person can Sue The City, as a Result of This Administrative Order, for ALL Court Costs, Attorneys Fees, and a Contingentcy Fee Multiplier (to Accrue at Legal Interest as Measured form The Date when The Court Plea is Filed).

    ..., and to Think that EVERY Person who is Escorted has Grounds to Legally Sue!..., which means The City could have to Pay $100,000 per Complaint Times The Number of The Complaints who are Illegally Escorted around City Hall by The Police in Violation of The Joe Carlucchi Uniforms Firearms Act!...,

    I would Bet that The City Tax Payers would NOT be very Happy about having to Dole out more than $1 Million Dollars, if not more, should at least 10 Florida Concealed Carry Permitees show up This Saturday, Sunday, or on The First Business Day after The Enactment of This Legislative Act on Monday!

    If She is Smart, which, we Know She is NOT, but, She would Rescind Her Blantantly Illegal Administartive Policy by This Friday, while She can Escape The Consequences Discussed above.

    If not, then, that is Her Choice.

    As for that Reporter..., He is a Brain-washed 'uber'-Liberal..., as Usual.

    aadvark

    *** I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE Members of The Florida Open Carry Organization to Sue come Saturday, or at least by Monday, if Her Illegal Administartive Order is not Promptly Removed. ***
    Point of order...the name of the organization is Florida Carry. Florida Open Carry is a grassroots movement of Florida Carry.

    The mayor may also face 42 USC 1983 for deprivation of civil rights under color of law in Federal Court.
    Rich
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    www.floridacarry.org
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    This mayor just refuses to follow the law. Now she changed her EO again. She will only allow guns on the first floor of City Hall. She did away with the police escort and will have a police officer stationed by the elevator to make sure no one armed goes to the upper floors. I really hope she gets kicked out of office.
    The best was the comment from one of the city commisioners.
    Commissioner Keith James wanted reassurance that guns wouldn’t be brought up to his office on the second floor.
    “In no way a constituent can meet me with me in my office with a gun whether he has a license or not?” James asked
    That’s correct, the attorney said.


    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/westp...on-guns-again/

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    Florida Carry:

    Point of Order Accepted.

    I will Omit 'Florida Open Carry' from My Previous Post.

    I Apolgize for This Oversight.

    aadvark

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    996twint:

    I am Grateful for Your Insight on The Newest Version of This Mayors', still ILLEGAL, Administrative Policy.

    I will Review The Contents that You have provided to This Forum.

    aadvark

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    To ALL Whom are Concerned:

    It would Appear that The Mayors' Newest VErsion of Her Unlawful Administrative Policy, is still, NO Surpirse!, Unlawful and Preempted by Florida Code 790.33.

    Tick-Tock..., Tick-Tock..., Ms. Mayor!

    ..., and it May Violate Floridas' Sunshine Laws as well...

    aadvark

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint
    She will only allow guns on the first floor of City Hall. She did away with the police escort and will have a police officer stationed by the elevator to make sure no one armed goes to the upper floors.
    And how do they propose to do that?
    Will everyone be wanded, or run through a metal detector?
    And the better-than-you commissioners object to coming through the front door like everyone else.
    But the city attorney says that'd only be for the first week or so...

    Commissioner Keith James wanted reassurance that guns wouldn’t be brought up to his office on the second floor.
    “In no way a constituent can meet me with me in my office with a gun whether he has a license or not?” James asked
    That’s correct, the attorney said.
    Waaaahhh. Maybe he should be a better public servant, so he's not afraid of the people he works for.
    And that attorney should be disbarred, since she doesn't know the law & is giving bad advice, urging people to break the law. How can she claim that CITY offices somehow aren't public?
    If it's a public employee, the office is publicly accessable.

    Interesting... this article says that every visitor (citizen-owner) to city hall will be required to sign in.
    Surely that's another of those 'chilling effects'.

    The mayor has the gall...:
    “We’re not going to hassle anyone,” Muoio said. “Anyone is welcomed into city hall, and we will comply with state law.”
    Everything else she's quoted as saying shows that she does intend to hassle people, & certain types of people are not welcome.
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    The new city hall EO took effect today. I haven't had a chance to go by to check the new rule out yet. From the article, I'm not sure if they still require a police escort or not.
    Two questions. Can they require you to sign in when you enter? Can they ask to see or verify your CCW permit when you enter?

    http://www.wpbf.com/news/29376604/detail.html

  23. #23
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    The new city hall EO took effect today. I haven't had a chance to go by to check the new rule out yet. From the article, I'm not sure if they still require a police escort or not.
    Two questions. Can they require you to sign in when you enter? Can they ask to see or verify your CCW permit when you enter?

    http://www.wpbf.com/news/29376604/detail.html
    So long as they apply the log signing to everyone, CWFL holder or not, I'm unaware of any reason why not. As to asking to see your CWFL, you must first pass through a metal detector. If you are carrying, you will set it off. At this point, it becomes fuzzy. There is no reasonable suspicion that you are committing a crime, but statute says a law enforcement officer can demand to see your license. A security guard? Not so much.
    Rich
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    Florida Carry, Inc.
    www.floridacarry.org
    Glock 23 RTF2
    Mosin Nagant M91/30 (1942 Izhevsk)
    _____________________________________
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    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Sooo.... Where's the bite?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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