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Doj rulemaking announcement

HandyHamlet

HandyHamlet

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Terra, Sol
Interceptor_Knight said:
The proof is in the pudding... When the DOJ releases its Admin Code, compare it to my statements.





That's just silly. The "code" is already there. It is called an Honorable Discharge..... If you are a veteran or know one, simply look at the DD214 to set your mind at ease..
Click to expand...

So... Documentation is a code. But our current documentation is not a code.

Interceptor_Knight said:
The proof is in the pudding...
Click to expand...

Yah, that's exactly what I thought. Absolutely no way to back any of this up.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
HandyHamlet said:
So even though the law says hunter safety training will be good enough for a permit every single person who has hunter safety will have to do it again because they do not have the proper code on their certificate?
Click to expand...

There is no "code" needed on a Hunter Safety Certificate. The past and current certificates are named in the Statute as being acceptable AS IS. The certificate requirements are only for that training which is NOT Hunter Safety, Military, etc. as called out in Act 35.
 
HandyHamlet

HandyHamlet

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Interceptor_Knight said:
There is no "code" needed on a Hunter Safety Certificate. The past and current certificates are named in the Statute as being acceptable AS IS. The certificate requirements are only for that training which is NOT Hunter Safety, Military, etc. as called out in Act 35.
Click to expand...

What was the "etc." part again?
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
HandyHamlet said:
So... Documentation is a code. But our current documentation is not a code.
Click to expand...

There was a confusion regarding the 2 types of proof of training we are discussing. A DD214 and a Hunter Safety Certificate are not required to reference the WI DOJ Admin Code. Proof of training from the NRA, AACFI, RWVA, etc which are not called out in Act 35 by name will be required to reference the Admin Code on their certificates. Since the Code has not been created, no current certificate will be acceptable.
 
M

mrjam2jab

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Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
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Location
Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
Interceptor_Knight said:
Proof of training from the NRA, AACFI, RWVA, etc which are not called out in Act 35 by name will be required to reference the Admin Code on their certificates. Since the Code has not been created, no current certificate will be acceptable.
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Nope. I live in PA. I took NRA Basic here in PA so obviously the cert would not mention WI Admin Code. If I move to WI in January, they have to accept my NRA certificate as is

(4) TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. (a) The proof of train-
ing requirement under sub. (7) (e) may be met by any of
the following:
1. A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an
instructor or organization that conducted the course or
program, that indicates the individual completed any of
the following:
a. The hunter education program established under s.
29.591 or a substantially similar program that is estab-
lished by another state, country, or province and that is
recognized by the department of natural resources.
b. A firearms safety or training course that is con-
ducted by a national or state organization that certifies
firearms instructors.
c. A firearms safety or training course that is avail-
able to the public and is offered by a law enforcement
agency or, if the course is taught by an instructor who is
certified by a national or state organization that certifies
firearms instructors or by the department, by a technical
college, a college or a university, a private or public insti-
tution or organization, or a firearms training school.
d. A firearms safety or training course that is offered
to law enforcement officers or to owners and employees
of licensed private detective and security agencies.
e. A firearms safety or training course that is con-
ducted by a firearms instructor who is certified by a
national or state organization that certifies firearms
instructors or who is certified by the department.
Click to expand...

Doesn't say anything about the certificate mentioning that the class was taken for WI.
 
BROKENSPROKET

BROKENSPROKET

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Location
Trempealeau County
Interceptor_Knight said:
No they do not.

OCDO member neoinarien is an attorney. I just got off of the phone with him and he will be posting a fresh thread with all of the information as he has been told directly.
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I am not saying you are wrong about the NRA Cert's not have Admin Code on them, but I imagine that the NRA has the lobby power to get an exemption.
 
oak1971

oak1971

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,937
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Interceptor_Knight said:
No they do not.

OCDO member neoinarien is an attorney. I just got off of the phone with him and he will be posting a fresh thread with all of the information as he has been told directly.
Click to expand...

So you have ascertained the veracity of his "inside information" how? Psychic Hotline? Miss Cleo? No wait, Nostradamus 12th quatrain.

He's been a member of the state bar for one year now, I'm sure that makes him an expert. :lol:

http://www.wisbar.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=News&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=93159
 
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MKEgal

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Interceptor_Knight said:
The NRA certificate is not called out specifically in Act 35 so there is no "must" for a current NRA certificate.
I can definitely see an NRA instructor having to change their certificate. The NRA is not different than AACFI or RWVA, etc when it comes to proof of training.
Click to expand...
Those certs are printed generically, nationally, & trying to put a reference to the code for every state would be unworkable.
Rejecting a certificate of training because it doesn't reference WI Act 35 (or some DOJ admin rule) would be against the law, because such a restriction on the issuance of a license is not specifically provided for in Act 35.

Da Po-lock said:
I can't see ANY national training organization "Bowing Down" to the whims of the WI DOJ.
There are 48 other states that issue CC permits, do you suppose EVERY training group customizes their certificates for each state?
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Exactly.

Interceptor_Knight said:
Proof of training from the NRA, AACFI, RWVA, etc. which are not called out in Act 35 by name will be required to reference the Admin Code on their certificates.
Click to expand...
"Called out by name"?
As in, the legislature didn't bother to list every "state or national organization that certifies firearms instructors", but instead provided a generic description that anyone except the DOJ can understand?

More posted in the new thread.
 
M

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Watch out for onerous application requirements like demand for SSN disclosure

It is unlawful for Wisconsin to demand disclosure of one's social secuerity number (SSN), if any, to apply for a permit to carry a gun. See Stollenwerk v. Miller at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/06d0225p.pdf

If Wisconsin bureaucrats try to make SSN disclosure required to apply for a concealed handgun permit, ensure public comment opposes this requirement on the grounds that it violates Section 7 of the Federal Privacy Act, a felony at 42 USC 408(g).

Same goes for requiring SSN disclosure on fingerprint cards - its unlawful to require the disclosure, and even eliciting disclosure without provision of a Section 7(b) Federal Privacy Act warning, is unlawful.
 
P

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Mike said:
It is unlawful for Wisconsin to demand disclosure of one's social secuerity number (SSN), if any, to apply for a permit to carry a gun. See Stollenwerk v. Miller at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/06d0225p.pdf

If Wisconsin bureaucrats try to make SSN disclosure required to apply for a concealed handgun permit, ensure public comment opposes this requirement on the grounds that it violates Section 7 of the Federal Privacy Act, a felony at 42 USC 408(g).

Same goes for requiring SSN disclosure on fingerprint cards - its unlawful to require the disclosure, and even eliciting disclosure without provision of a Section 7(b) Federal Privacy Act warning, is unlawful.
Click to expand...

Thank you Mike!
 
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