Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Oak Harbor student expelled after bringing gun to Crescent Harbor Elementary

  1. #1
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    2,241

    Oak Harbor student expelled after bringing gun to Crescent Harbor Elementary

    http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/whidbey/...129845803.html

    Man things have changed, in my day I would have got my seat warmed by the school and my dad, end of story. Now they expel for a year and seek criminal charges on fourth graders. We have lost our way!

  2. #2
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,770
    I don't see the point of expelling a fourth-grader and seeking criminal charges against him. But, with the nanny-state idiocy we have now, warming the seat of his britches, as should be done, will get you charged with child abuse and if the school does it will get them sued by the parents and charged.

    Had I done something like that when I was in the fourth grade (and we won't talk about how long ago that was), I'd still be eating my supper standing up!! The principal would have warmed my backsides up, then Mom would have had a go, and, finally, Dad would have put the finishing touches on. First would have been the paddle at school, then Mom's switch (she couldn't use a belt, which is a hilarious story), and then Dad's belt.

    Yes, I am the voice of experience on that. No, I won't tell you what I did, but I will tell you that I didn't do it again!!!

  3. #3
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,991
    What I would like to see reported is how the kid got a hold of two different guns, and what actions taken on the parents.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    What I would like to see reported is how the kid got a hold of two different guns, and what actions taken on the parents.
    Bingo. Punish the parents if they were irresponsible. Expelling the kid for a year doesn't help anyone.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  5. #5
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Leesburg, GA
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Bingo. Punish the parents if they were irresponsible. Expelling the kid for a year doesn't help anyone.
    Indeed. Kid "earns" a vacation from school, which really will teach him nothing in the long run.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    +1 on the "where were the parents" & "how'd he get the guns" ideas.

    Just for yucks throw in "why didn't the magical 1000' "gun-free" school zone stop the pistol from being brought into the school?".
    Laws prevent crime, right?

    School officials discovered the 9-year-old boy was carrying a loaded .45 caliber Ruger, with the safety on, in his backpack.
    Well, at least the safety was on...
    But can you imagine a 9yo trying to shoot a .45?

    Hunt said the student allegedly brought a different handgun to school Tuesday. A female student spotted the gun on the bus. She told one of her parents who, in turn, called the school Wednesday morning.
    So it could have been the same pistol. Unless they're different colors, how is another 9yo going to know one pistol from another, esp. in what looks like such a nanny-state anti-gun environment?

    When my son was about 9, however, he startled a friend of mine who is a police officer by having a fairly intelligent conversation (for being 9) about the pistol & ammo my friend was carrying (on duty). Apparently Joe didn't expect a kid that young to even recognize hollowpoints, let alone understand how they work.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 09-16-2011 at 12:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Just for yucks throw in "why didn't the magical 1000' "gun-free" school zone stop the pistol from being brought into the school?"
    Must have been malfunctioning that day. Could have been due to the rolling blackouts this summer, or possibly the switch thrown by some guy in AZ that caused millions to loose power in the SW US.

    But can you imagine a 9yo trying to shoot a .45?
    Not so shocking. I taught my 9yo son how to shoot on my 9mm, which, because it's lighter than a .45, has about the same kick with 145-gr loads. I learned to shoot shotgun when I was nine. 12 gauge.

    When my son was about 9, however, he startled a friend of mine who is a police officer by having a fairly intelligent conversation (for being 9) about the pistol & ammo my friend was carrying (on duty). Apparently Joe didn't expect a kid that young to even recognize hollowpoints, let alone understand how they work.
    Before I allowed my son to handle my firearm, I gave him proper tutelage, including an adult-level, 50-question test! He scored a 94.

    I'm not sure why some people think children are stupid. They're not. They're excellent learners, and will suck up pretty much anything they're taught.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923
    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    .......with the nanny-state idiocy we have now, warming the seat of his britches, as should be done, will get you charged with child abuse and if the school does it will get them sued by the parents and charged.......
    In the State of Washington it is legal to spank your child. It is also legal for a teacher or principal to spank a child. (of course a parent could still sue.)

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.100
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    I agree with MKEgal that it could be the same gun. Here is my guess as to what happened. The parents had a gun for home defense, but for whatever reason choose to not teach their kid about guns. As the gun was for home defense it was loaded and due to having a kid in the house it was "hidden" but still accessible if needed. The kid found the "hidden" gun, wasn't ever properly taught about guns, and so he thought he would show it to his friends because its cool. He then takes it to school, girl sees it on the way home and tells her parents, but depending on when she got home and told her mom there's no way to contact the necessary people. School is contacted first thing the next day and the kid is caught with the same gun in his backpack. Meanwhile the parents have no clue that their kid found the "hidden" gun and since its for home defense they don't check to make sure its still there.

    I would say the issue is with how society has practically demonized guns which then leads into the parents not teaching their kid about guns and what to do if one is found. So its on the parents, but imo its not as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be (but its still a pretty big deal worthy of a good spanking), and its an effect of the underlying view of guns by society as a whole.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    744
    When my oldest son was in 2nd grade, a bunch of kids were on the playground trying to one-up each other. So my bright boy says something to the effect of having a pistol in his backpack. As they are lining up to go back inside at the end of recess, another student decides to hit my son in the face. After they get in, my son tells the teacher what happened and the other kid gets sent to the office. While in the office, the other kid tells the principal the reason he hit my son was because he was scared due to the fact my son saying he had a pistol. My son gets called to the office and asked about it. My son says, "No, I don't. I was joking. You can check if you want." Since he didn't really have a pistol, and he offered his bag up on his own, he did not get suspended. He did get into some big trouble when he got home though. Part of his punishment was writing a letter to his teacher and to the principal apologizing for what he had done and for wasting their time.

    The principal was astonished that he actually had used the word "pistol" instead of the generic term "gun". My son started learning about guns and gun safety when he was 3 so he knew the difference between rifle, pistol, and revolver.

    I agree that blame should be placed on the parents for not educating their child about firearms and that they are not toys.

  11. #11
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    2,241
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    SNIP...I agree that blame should be placed on the parents for not educating their child about firearms and that they are not toys.
    I also learned about firearms and safety from my dad at an early age, and also learned very quickly where Dad stashed the key to the gun cabinet! It was torture looking at those guns behind the glass, so often..... My point is; this kid may have also payed attention, and particularly to the safe combo or key location without Dad knowing. Just another possibility, with the fast learning mentioned by a few here and all. So maybe, just maybe the parents did everythig right, and the kid knew too much?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I also learned about firearms and safety from my dad at an early age, and also learned very quickly where Dad stashed the key to the gun cabinet! It was torture looking at those guns behind the glass, so often..... My point is; this kid may have also payed attention, and particularly to the safe combo or key location without Dad knowing. Just another possibility, with the fast learning mentioned by a few here and all. So maybe, just maybe the parents did everythig right, and the kid knew too much?
    Possibly. Some folks may say "How irresponsible!" to what I'm about to share next, but I did so as both a training aid as well as a test.

    Prior to the 3-day firearms safety and use training I gave my son when he was nine, there were only two places I kept my firearm when he was in town: Holstered and on my hip, or in my key+combo gun safe. Shortly after the training, however (which he passed with flying colors), I left my unloaded firearm within arms reach on my desk while I was at the computer. A critical point in his training was that neither he nor any child under the age of 18 is allowed to touch, much less pick up, a firearm unless they're under direct adult supervision by the owner of that firearm.

    A couple of days later, I left my unloaded firearm on my nightstand. It was within visual range of my desk, so I could see if he'd get curious about it and break the rule.

    On the second day of doing this, he came to me and said, "Dad? What would you do if I were to pick up your gun without your permission?" I looked him calmly, but seriously in the eye and said, "I'd paddle your behind until it blistered. You wouldn't be able to sit down for a week, and you would forfeit all pool privileges for the rest of the summer."

    His eyes grew wider, and he was definitely daunted by the prospect of so severe a punishment!

    To this day, he is very careful to avoid even getting near my firearm ... unless we're on the range. At the range, he really enjoys firing it!

    Despite my apparent achievement, there are still only two places where I kept my loaded firearm when he's in town: Holstered and on my hip, or in my key+combo gun safe. Well, I also keep it under my pillow while I'm sleeping.

    Reason: As kids mature, particularly as they go through puberty, their brains are awash in some pretty powerful chemicals. As a result, the brain itself changes over time, and even the best of teens often do some pretty foolish and reckless things. Even my well-trained son might one day get the thought in his head, "I'm old enough to handle it now" and break training. I trust myself to always handle my firearm appropriately, but who knows if my son might forget one simple, but critical step, such as racking the slide after ejecting the magazine, thereby believing the gun was unloaded when it was in fact, loaded?

    There's absolutely no reason (and no excuse, in my book) for a youth to gain unsupervised access to a firearm. Not only are accidental deaths, maimings, and disfigurements due to firearms prime fodder for the anti-2A and anti-gun movements, but they're a real tragedy for the families and the children themselves.

    Interestingly, I was raised by a reasonably strict father, even though he was also a "big picture" sort of guy. As such, he gave us wide latitude to get into trouble, provided it wasn't the sort that might result in death or mayhem. Thus, we learned from our mistakes. When I was nine (hence my username of "since9") my father gave me his own version of firearms safety.

    It must have stuck. I was a latchkey kid starting in seventh grade, and although I had unsupervised access to my parents' closet where my dad's firearms were stored, I respected his training and refrained from touching them unless he was there directly supervising the operation.

    Of course, that didn't stop us kids from being stupid in other ways, but that's a different story.
    Last edited by since9; 09-16-2011 at 05:02 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    But can you imagine a 9yo trying to shoot a .45?
    Yes. No rational reason to think that is shocking. It is plausible and possible. Depends upon hand size.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    One thing I have thought about for when my kids are older is this. Obviously the gun training, but also having a "hidden" handgun that is both unloaded and has the firing pin removed. My thinking on it is that if they find it it is inoperable but they don't know that. So should something horrible happen (thinking along the lines of a kid who decides to shoot up a school, suicide, etc) and they have found the "hidden" gun, they are more likely to grab it than try to get into my gun safe or get a gun somewhere else. As such the gun that they attempt to use is inert and there will hopefully not be any loss of life.

    I'm still thinking on this, but I understand that even with the best of training and paying attention to your kids that things can still happen. At worst its a gun that can't fire, but at best I think it could save lives.

  15. #15
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware
    My son started learning about guns and gun safety when he was 3 so he knew the difference between rifle, pistol, and revolver.

    revolver is a subset of pistol
    semiautomatic is a subset of pistol

    And the reason I had a by the concept of a 9yo firing a .45 is not that I think s/he couldn't do it, but rather that it's hard for me to imagine it being done safely, given the smaller body mass to absorb the recoil & weaker muscles to control the recoil (as well as .45s are often larger & heavier to begin with... & if they're smaller & lighter, we're back to having more recoil).

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Before I became a parent I used to say things like "My kid would never do that!".

    Then you have kids reality hits and you learn to humbly swallow your words or as some do live in denial about their babies. Having disappointed my parent and having been disappointed I won't quickly blame the parents until I know more about the situation.

    There are parents who do everything correctly and their kids still choose an unwise path.

    It's just a good thing no one was harmed in this situation.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •