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Thread: One man's attempt to normalize guns

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    One man's attempt to normalize guns

    http://renormalize.blogspot.com/2011...n-culture.html

    Strategies to make the gun culture the normal American culture once again.
    Schools and the gun culture

    Over the past 50 years, ownership, use, and bearing of arms has been alienated from American culture. I will be posting here ways I think this can be corrected.

    The usual reaction to a firearm in public, these days, has been, at best, to consider the bearer to be strange, or at worst, a danger, unless some reason for carrying is immediately apparent. This is abnormal, compared to the previous 200 years here.

    Thanks to Say Uncle for finding this. It looks like it will be worth following. Even knowing that there will be hordes of folks screaming "But think of the chill-drun!" as soon as they hear that someone wants to teach schoolkids to shoot, there is much to be said for picking the schoolhouse as the place to bring guns back into the mainstream of American life.

    With any luck his ideas will be picked up by others.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Interesting blog,Skid. Thanks for posting it.

    I remember when my high school -- in Maryland! -- had a rifle team and the members would carry their rifles to school on the streetcar or bus. By the time I got to highschool (in 1961), it had been disbanded. Having grown up with rifles and shotguns (which we got to shoot at our Uncle's place in Virginia), I didn't miss the ability to compete at school, but re-instituting a shooting/gun safety program makes sense ... and might go a long way in re-normalizing.

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    Regular Member Large Caliber Kick's Avatar
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    I was introduced to bb guns at a cub scout day camp when I was 7. My grandfather gave me my first lever-action air rifle at age 8 (my parents wished he hadn't). At 10 years old, I saved my money and got grandpa to buy me a pumpmaster 760 and a scope. In my early teens, I got my first experience with powder-fired weapons when I earned my rifle and shotgun merit badges as a boy scout at summer camp. My grandfather taught me at age 14 that there were other uses for firearms besides hunting/self defense when he taught me to trim tree limbs with a 12 guage. I stepped up to .22 caliber airguns when I was old enough to buy them at age 16. Finally I saved enough money at 21 to become the proud owner of a Mossberg 500 12 guage(back then I had the false understanding that I had to be 21 to buy any gun ). The point of posting all of this is that I had to go pretty far out of my way to familiarize myself with firearms and I shutter at the fact that it is becoming tougher for future generations to learn firearm safty and respect. I think classes in school are perhaps the only way to give this oppertunity to children in the future. I noticed that most of the sheeple out there seem to think that if they teach something in public school then it must be okay.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Large Caliber Kick View Post
    I was introduced to bb guns at a cub scout day camp when I was 7. My grandfather gave me my first lever-action air rifle at age 8 (my parents wished he hadn't). At 10 years old, I saved my money and got grandpa to buy me a pumpmaster 760 and a scope. In my early teens, I got my first experience with powder-fired weapons when I earned my rifle and shotgun merit badges as a boy scout at summer camp. My grandfather taught me at age 14 that there were other uses for firearms besides hunting/self defense when he taught me to trim tree limbs with a 12 guage. I stepped up to .22 caliber airguns when I was old enough to buy them at age 16. Finally I saved enough money at 21 to become the proud owner of a Mossberg 500 12 guage(back then I had the false understanding that I had to be 21 to buy any gun ). The point of posting all of this is that I had to go pretty far out of my way to familiarize myself with firearms and I shutter at the fact that it is becoming tougher for future generations to learn firearm safty and respect. I think classes in school are perhaps the only way to give this oppertunity to children in the future. I noticed that most of the sheeple out there seem to think that if they teach something in public school then it must be okay.
    Your post reminded me of the importance of parents and grandparents being active in teaching firearm safety to their children and grandchildren. Those of us who have grown up with firearms understand the importance of safe handling practices and, as importantly, the role that firearms play in the U.S. society.

    I introduced my three sons to firearms as soon as I judged that they were able to comprehend and understand safety and role, and never once had a problem with them mis-handling any of the firearms that were kept in the home. I am now teaching my grandkids the same respect and understanding.

    As with other forms of socializing our children, we must not leave it up to "public institutions" to teach the right things. If we abdicate our responsibilities as parents, we should not expect our children to respect our values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Interesting blog,Skid. Thanks for posting it.

    I remember when my high school -- in Maryland! -- had a rifle team and the members would carry their rifles to school on the streetcar or bus. By the time I got to highschool (in 1961), it had been disbanded. Having grown up with rifles and shotguns (which we got to shoot at our Uncle's place in Virginia), I didn't miss the ability to compete at school, but re-instituting a shooting/gun safety program makes sense ... and might go a long way in re-normalizing.
    I remember taking my .22 to high school and keeping it in my locker all day to go rabbit hunting after school in 68-71.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    I remember taking my .22 to high school and keeping it in my locker all day to go rabbit hunting after school in 68-71.
    In my school was mostly Shotguns during Dove/quail/turkey seasons and rifles during deer season in cars or pickups. More than once a teacher or principal had someone bring their new firearm so they could take a look at it.

    It was not unusual to see several pickups in the parking lot with firearms in the gun rack in the back window at any time of the year.

    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 09-16-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Oh, I so want a gun rack in my pickemup truck again!

    That would certainly help 'normalize' guns again!
    cheers - okboomer
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    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Your post reminded me of the importance of parents and grandparents being active in teaching firearm safety to their children and grandchildren. Those of us who have grown up with firearms understand the importance of safe handling practices and, as importantly, the role that firearms play in the U.S. society.

    I introduced my three sons to firearms as soon as I judged that they were able to comprehend and understand safety and role, and never once had a problem with them mis-handling any of the firearms that were kept in the home. I am now teaching my grandkids the same respect and understanding.

    As with other forms of socializing our children, we must not leave it up to "public institutions" to teach the right things. If we abdicate our responsibilities as parents, we should not expect our children to respect our values.
    Oh, now do you realize what you are advocating here ... you mean that you expect the parents to go out and learn gun safety and handling just so they can responsibly teach their children? All on their own?? Seriously??? /sarcasm off

    Yes, teaching children how to handle guns responsibly is a very important parental right/responsibility that should not be relegated to a "government employee" but there are other things that should be taught along with responsible gun handling. Specifically, self control, courtesy to others, consideration of others ... in other words, manners.

    And, what about all the kids on Ritalin/etc. for ADD/ADHD/ad nauseum? Basically, most of them are on those drugs because of lack of self control ... are we going to have them fantasizing about guns when on psychoactive drugs? Wouldn't that automatically disqualify them under most state mental health laws? What about the privacy protections for children?

    It is a sticky situation and I have my own theory about why so many kids are on these drugs, but that is for another time and place.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I remember during the first few days of fourth grade, the teacher asking the boys in the class who expected to be out a week when hunting season began, to raise their hands. That was in 1955 in Falls Church, Virginia. In those days, guns were frequently displayed for purchase at hardware stores and the occasional gas station and drug store. There were no firearms in my home when I was growing up, but then again, firearms were just not an issue. I did own a BB gun by the time I was in the fifth grade.

    What this person is proposing is just not going to happen. We are three generations removed from the world which those of us old enough to recall grow up in and in which firearms were treated as tools much like a shovel or a drill. They served a purpose and as long as they were treated safely, there was no problem. They were common place and though of as so.

    Those days are gone and there are a host of real and tangible reasons how and why they are not only gone, but how firearms have gone from being a valued, respected, and accepted part of the American landscape to that of villain and borderline evil devices. This is not by accident and turning it around, short of a major and catastrophic national disaster, is not going to happen.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 09-17-2011 at 08:10 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member thedrewcifur's Avatar
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    you guys grew up in a time that i wish i did. i, sadly was born in 1988. if i took one of my guns to school the SWAT team would have been called... but my teachers were cool. i went shooting with some of them.

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    We are already turning it around

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I remember during the first few days of fourth grade, the teacher asking the boys in the class who expected to be out a week when hunting season began, to raise their hands. That was in 1955 in Falls Church, Virginia. In those days, guns were frequently displayed for purchase at hardware stores and the occasional gas station and drug store. There were no firearms in my home when I was growing up, but then again, firearms were just not an issue. I did own a BB gun by the time I was in the fifth grade.

    What this person is proposing is just not going to happen. We are three generations removed from the world which those of us old enough to recall grow up in and in which firearms were treated as tools much like a shovel or a drill. They served a purpose and as long as they were treated safely, there was no problem. They were common place and though of as so.

    Those days are gone and there are a host of real and tangible reasons how and why they are not only gone, but how firearms have gone from being a valued, respected, and accepted part of the American landscape to that of villain and borderline evil devices. This is not by accident and turning it around, short of a major and catastrophic national disaster, is not going to happen.
    We are already turning it around. It is true that we have been attacked from within, but with the new media and the failure of socialism worldwide, we stand a chance of restoring the Constituion.

    We have brought the Second Amendment back form the brink. The old Big Government system is widely recognized as having failed. We have the Constitution, the facts, and the culture still on our side, thought the culture has been quite diminished and weakened.

    We are now winning the culture wars, as the old media is failing. We can still lose, but to have a defeatest attitude and to say that we cannot win, is not helpful.

  12. #12
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    We are already turning it around. It is true that we have been attacked from within, but with the new media and the failure of socialism worldwide, we stand a chance of restoring the Constituion.

    We have brought the Second Amendment back form the brink. The old Big Government system is widely recognized as having failed. We have the Constitution, the facts, and the culture still on our side, thought the culture has been quite diminished and weakened.

    We are now winning the culture wars, as the old media is failing. We can still lose, but to have a defeatest attitude and to say that we cannot win, is not helpful.
    I am a realist, not a dreamer and have seen too much in my life to believe a return to a society which operates closer to the original intent of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is going to happen any time soon, if at all unless something drastic takes place. And I wouldn't trust that to be a correcting factor either.

    And one more thing. Being a realist is not mutually inclusive to defeatism.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    I grow up out in the country and the first gun I had was a bb rifle for then I had a bb pistol then finally I had a pillet rifle. And when I got old enough to go hunting I got a shotgun and a rifle.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    And one more thing. Being a realist is not mutually inclusive to defeatism.
    Any person that asserts that Defeatism is mutually exclusive to Realism is, well...I don't want to be rude.

    Realism is also mis-equated with Pessimism. I would suggest that individuals who are Realists accept that most of the so-called 'correlations' between Realism, and the two other items deemed as being mutually exclusive have everything to do with the correlator, and nothing to do with Realism.

    If you deny yourself the reality on the ground, or cherry-pick what you observe, you deny yourself what can be, and typically is, IMO, a less palatable understanding, but a more realistic, and in my opinion personally a 'balanced' understanding. These 'balanced' understandings that we come too can be rather jagged pills to swallow. The alternative is to swallow the sh*t the masses feed on each day - the whole time they 'believe', and if that isn't enough actively convince themselves they are eating cupcakes.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I am a realist, not a dreamer ...

    Hey, us "dreamers" are the ones who are wacky and creative enough to get the ball rolling on issues like restoring the 2A, because we don't care what the "sheeple" think--we have bigger visions, broader understandings, and our self-worth far exceeds any "perception of acceptability to the common man".

    If it weren't for "dreamers", FL would have never started the CC revolution in the 1980s, and the OC movement we have today would probably not even exist.

    Dreamers MADE this nation, and we will RE-MAKE it again...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 09-17-2011 at 09:46 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Hey, us "dreamers" are the ones who are wacky and creative enough to get the ball rolling on issues like restoring the 2A, because we don't care what the "sheeple" think--we have bigger visions, broader understandings, and our self-worth far exceeds any "perception of acceptability to the common man".

    If it weren't for "dreamers", FL would have never started the CC revolution in the 1980s, and the OC movement we have today would probably not even exist.

    Dreamers MADE this nation, and we will RE-MAKE it again...
    Ahh yes, context. Perhaps I should have qualified the context with my use of the word, "dreamer". Context can be everything.

    For example, it appears that to some folks the word realist, and the concepts to which it applies, infers a level of negativism. I can assure you that I am not a negative person... quite the contrary. To me, the term realist simply means one who sees things for what they are and doesn't try to paint them otherwise. And even this definition has a number of colors to it.

    In my post #10 above, does anyone honestly believe we are going to see a return to Constitutional government in which the original intent is practiced? Or even part of it? Are we likely to see 4473 forms disappear or the SCOTUS decision to ban school prayer, and all that has followed in that vein, also disappear? Or the reporting of cash purchases over $10,000 go by the wayside? Seat belt laws, child safety seats, CAFE requirements, and on and on. NFA firearms, class 3 sales... this list could go on for a long time. Endangered species act, U.S. Fish and Wildlife abuses, U.S Army Corp of Engineers, FEMA, EPA, and so on. None of this appears in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and all of it affects us on a daily basis in one way or the other. It ain't going away without something drastic and catastrophic taking place because it has become ingrained in our society and ultimately, our culture.

    I'm not trying to open a can of worms and am not taking a side in any of this.... just making mention of facts. And I am not offering my own opinion as to which, if any, of these changes and more, need to stay or disappear. That's for another discussion of which I would frankly rather not be a part on these forums. Just pointing out a few of the things that have altered the landscape of the nation our Founders designed. Opinions vary and everyone is entitled to their own without a doubt.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 09-18-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  17. #17
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    We are going to change. I don't think we will accept more Nanny state

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Ahh yes, context. Perhaps I should have qualified the context with my use of the word, "dreamer". Context can be everything.

    For example, it appears that to some folks the word realist, and the concepts to which it applies, infers a level of negativism. I can assure you that I am not a negative person... quite the contrary. To me, the term realist simply means one who sees things for what they are and doesn't try to paint them otherwise. And even this definition has a number of colors to it.

    In my post #10 above, does anyone honestly believe we are going to see a return to Constitutional government in which the original intent is practiced? Or even part of it? Are we likely to see 4473 forms disappear or the SCOTUS decision to ban school prayer, and all that has followed in that vein, also disappear? Or the reporting of cash purchases over $10,000 go by the wayside? Seat belt laws, child safety seats, CAFE requirements, and on and on. NFA firearms, class 3 sales... this list could go on for a long time. Endangered species act, U.S. Fish and Wildlife abuses, U.S Army Corp of Engineers, FEMA, EPA, and so on. None of this appears in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and all of it affects us on a daily basis in one way or the other. It ain't going away without something drastic and catastrophic taking place because it has become ingrained in our society and ultimately, our culture.

    I'm not trying to open a can of worms and am not taking a side in any of this.... just making mention of facts. And I am not offering my own opinion as to which, if any, of these changes and more, need to stay or disappear. That's for another discussion of which I would frankly rather not be a part on these forums. Just pointing out a few of the things that have altered the landscape of the nation our Founders designed. Opinions vary and everyone is entitled to their own without a doubt.

    We are in for very serious changes. Either we will continue on down the path toward a planned economy/socialism/fascism, or we will retrench and move back toward restoring the Constitution.

    We will not continue on a liniear trend as we are. Here is an article that supports moving back toward more Constitutional government:

    The Next Wave

    Another wave is coming, Washington – and “the ‘ins’ may be thrown out, and the ‘outs’ may be thrown in,” according to Michael Genovese, Loyola University political-science professor.

    Genovese thinks the economic and political turbulence of the past 12 years are “eerily similar” to the Panic of 1893 and the unsettling election cycles of 1884 to 1896.

    Both eras feature fantastic wealth created for a privileged few, fiercely competitive and highly partisan elections, an ineffectual and seemingly corrupt government, and an angry, disillusioned electorate.

    And both have had populist movements – the Progressives of the late 1800s, the Tea Party of today – born of economic dislocation that has pressured the status quo, Genovese said.

    “The Progressive movement sprang out of this period,” Villanova University political science professor Lara Brown said of the Gilded Age. “Politicians from both parties promised reform, yet few were able to deliver meaningful changes.”

    Progressives, she explained, tried to reform America by “professionalizing and nationalizing government, because they believed the problems (of that time) mostly stemmed from powerful state-based party machines.”

    Today, many people perceive the opposite problem: Too much Washington, too many experts.

    “Thus, it is no surprise that the Tea Party movement aims to downsize the federal government and to raise up the power of the states,” said Brown, reversing the Progressives’ achievements of more than 100 years ago.

    In addition to economic distress, that earlier period was marked by deep public dissatisfaction with the way government worked, or didn’t work.

    Back then, to the electoral winner went the spoils of patronage jobs for loyal partisans and pork-barrel contracts for supportive special interests – to a degree far beyond anything seen today.

    “The booming industrial revolution led to the formation of large corporate trusts, which generated previously unheard-of profits,” Brown said.

    Wall Street fat-cats influenced public policy and generally were believed to have bought U.S. senators; crony capitalism was rampant, and it was bipartisan.

    Sound familiar?


    http://townhall.com/columnists/salen...ave/page/full/

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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Oh, now do you realize what you are advocating here ... you mean that you expect the parents to go out and learn gun safety and handling just so they can responsibly teach their children? All on their own?? Seriously??? /sarcasm off

    Yes, teaching children how to handle guns responsibly is a very important parental right/responsibility that should not be relegated to a "government employee" but there are other things that should be taught along with responsible gun handling. Specifically, self control, courtesy to others, consideration of others ... in other words, manners.

    And, what about all the kids on Ritalin/etc. for ADD/ADHD/ad nauseum? Basically, most of them are on those drugs because of lack of self control ... are we going to have them fantasizing about guns when on psychoactive drugs? Wouldn't that automatically disqualify them under most state mental health laws? What about the privacy protections for children?

    It is a sticky situation and I have my own theory about why so many kids are on these drugs, but that is for another time and place.
    It's not hard to be "diagnosed" with ADD or ADHD. As a kid I was put on ritilin for having ADD. My parents took me off of it in two weeks because they realized that wasn't the issue. The issue was school was too easy and couldn't hold my attention. The drugs would excessively calm me (to the point that my parents were worried about me because it was such a change), but if I didn't take them (like during the weekend) it was as if all of that suppressed energy would just explode out and I was even more active than before being on the medication. Mind you before being on the medication I wasn't having any issues with my grades, I was just an active kid in school (so regularly in trouble for talking). All it really did was mellow me out.

    So while I'm sure plenty of kids do have ADD and ADHD there's likely even more kids who have been "diagnosed" with it because their parents have an active kid that is bored and they don't want to deal with it.

  19. #19
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    My diatribe for the day: why schools won't change for the better --

    I was in a "restaurant" in Warrenton a few nights ago to meet with another attorney and a prospective client. The place is called, "McMahon's", and has a decidedly Irish atmosphere. I got to chatting with the bartender, Irish guy with a thick accent, and in whose speech the most frequently occurring adjective is something like "fahcking". The topic of firearms came up somehow, and he said, "Where I'm from, the fahcking law don't allow no fahcking guns." I observed that any government that is afraid of its own citizens has to make sure the public is disarmed. He agreed, and observed that the government he's left has good reason to be afraid.

    We are engaged in a cultural war between the Roman system and the Germanic/Scottish system which formed the basis of constitutional government in the United States. Roman culture has been brought to this continent (subsequent to the formation of the American Republic) in successive waves of immigration from Ireland, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, and more recently Mexico and Central America. Some states are already predominately based on the Roman system, including Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Massachussetts, Illinois, California, and Hawaii. As children of recent immigrants are born in the U.S. and grow into voting citizens, that transition will be complete. I see this not as something I am afraid will happen, I see it as something that has already happened, and is now in consolidation and integration. Six of the nine justices on the Supreme Court are Catholic; most of the news-faces you see on television have surnames reflecting ancestry from some client state of the Vatican. Law enforcement, prosecution, probation and parole, etc., are increasingly dominated by such folks, whose cultural norms are not consistent with those of the "founding fathers". It's not a matter of one religion trying to suppress other religions because what I'm talking about is not primarily a religion, it's a worldview. Even people raised in that system who have rejected the Catholic church still share the values and norms they received from the Roman system.

    You may have noticed that the list of states I identified are also those with the strictest gun control legislation. As Roman culture advances throughout the United States, that will become the norm throughout the U.S. The Roman system is inquisitorial rather than adversarial; it depends on hierarchical systems of personal loyalty, rather than social responsibility, intellectual honesty, and voluntary compliance with the law. Governments based on the Roman system have good reason to be afraid of the citizenry, and very much need to protect themselves from an armed populace. They have "subjects", not "citizens", and as Justice Scalia recently stated in the Heller opinion, you may have rights, but they're subject to "reasonable regulation". That is to say, what's "reasonable" from the government's perspective is all the "rights" you'll have. From the point of view of the Germanic/Scottish system, if your rights are subject to regulation of any kind, they're not rights, they're privileges. The Roman system regards the people as an expendable resource to be exploited for the common good (as the government defines, "good"), and for the benefit of the State.

    Since the United States began to control school curricula in the early Twentieth Century, the pro-federal propaganda machine has been in full operation. Molding the minds of the future citizens is the most powerful weapon the imperial State has. Therefore, I submit, not only will schools neither implement nor promote an intelligent approach to the ownership, possession, and use of firearms, they will increasingly implement and promote the concept that the ownership, possession, and use of firearms is shameful and evil.

    I had lunch the other day with a number of our crew in a barbequeue restaurant in Prince William County. One of our number said he'd been born and raised in California, and is an ex-L.A. policeman. He's recently acquired land out in the Western part of the Blue Ridge in Virginia, and said that, even though the local culture there is very much in accord with the notion that shooting on one's own property is normal, healthy, and good, he still feels shame and guilt for enjoying doing so. It's because he is a product of the culture of California and the California public schools. The Roman system depends on an internalized system of shame, fear, and guilt for implementation of social control.

    I think that in twenty years, this will have become the norm throughout the United States. As Franklin reportedly observed, one has to work to keep a republic. I think that a republic is like a nuclear power plant. The engineers and scientists who came up with the theory and design don't run the thing. Our government was designed by brilliant political thinkers and statesmen, but we've got Homer Simpson running it. Overly engineered systems cannot be run by just plain folks, and most folks have trouble operating a toaster. That's why so many "food processors" sit unused in American kitchens. And I am convinced that the Germanic/Scottish model requires small groups of like-minded people who respect intelligence in order to operate; the Roman system has been developed over millennia of actual experience with organizing large numbers of ordinary people. Most people need a king; when the Israelites demanded that Samuel annoint a king for them, he warned them about what a king would do to them. But no, they said, we have to have a king like all the other tribes. Well, I think it's true. The Roman system will work best for the average WalMart shopper, who will never understand social responsibility, much less his personal responsibility to his fellow citizens that he voluntarily comply with the law. He needs a king, or pope, to inform his decisions.

    The schools are changing, but it isn't for the better, from my perspective, but in a way that will be more appropriate for the masses. Or "sheeple", if you like. Ironically, public education is the only way to deflect the evil aspects of the takeover; but control of it is already long gone.

    The horse has been out of the barn for a long time. No point in yelling and screaming about slamming the barn door to keep the horse in, now. That horse is long gone.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  20. #20
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    +1000 user, well said.

    mind if I borrow your statement: "Our government was designed by brilliant political thinkers and statesmen, but we've got Homer Simpson running it."?

  21. #21
    Regular Member William Fisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Oh, I so want a gun rack in my pickemup truck again!

    That would certainly help 'normalize' guns again!
    I rememer folks carrying open up til the mid to late 70s here in Ohio and most with pick-up trucks had the gun racks. Since they have re-enstated open carry here it would seem to me that the gun rack with gun would fall under open carry (view).

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