View Poll Results: Do you have to produce ID (DL, or name, address, DOB) to an officer upon request?

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, at all times

    1 7.14%
  • No

    7 50.00%
  • Only when I'm suspected of a crime

    6 42.86%
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Bit of interesting Information on When you have to produce an ID

  1. #1
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41

    Bit of interesting Information on When you have to produce an ID

    ****Edit****

    Here is an article that I wrote on this subject of "if" you "have" to produce an ID to an officer. http://wp.me/p1hlKV-2u It expands on the information listed below.

    ****end****
    Hi, I'm new to being a member of this board, and after reading it for the past couple years, decided to join (and hopefully add some good information).

    As a fellow OC'er and CCWPH I have found the information here useful. However, there was always one question that I had found a limited answer to: "Do I have to show my DL to an officer for purpose of ID of who I am, IF I'm Not driving a car?" One of the answers I happened to on here was, of course, that the LEO's can't stop you for just OC'ing.

    C.R.S 16-3-103 Stopping of suspect

    "In order to lawfully detain an individual for questioning: (1) A police officer must have a reasonable suspicion that the individual has committed, or is about to commit, a crime; (2) the purpose of the detention must be reasonable; and (3) the character of the detention must be reasonable when considered in light of the purpose. People v. Stevens, 183 Colo. 399, 517 P.2d 1336 (1973); People v. Montoya, 185 Colo. 299, 524 P.2d 76 (1974); People v. Mascarenas, 726 P.2d 644 (Colo. 1986); People v. Ratcliff, 778 P.2d 1371 (Colo. 1989); People v. Wilson, 784 P.2d 325 (Colo. 1989); People v. Sutherland, 886 P.2d 681 (Colo. 1994); People v. Rodriguez, 924 P.2d 1100 (Colo. App. 1996), aff'd, 945 P.2d 1351 (Colo. 1997).

    The first of these requirements is determined by whether there were specific and articulable facts known to the officer, which taken together with rational inferences from these facts, created a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity to justify the intrusion into the defendant's personal security. People v. Mascarenas, 726 P.2d 644 (Colo. 1986); People v. Wilson, 784 P.2d 325 (Colo. 1989)."


    What I didn't see in this statute was what I recently found tonight, and thought it might be of some use to someone else.

    C.R.S 42-2-115. License, permit, or identification card to be exhibited on demand.

    "(1) No person who has been issued a driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit or an identification card as defined in section 42-2-301 (2), who operates a motor vehicle in this state, and who has such license, permit, or identification card in such person's immediate possession shall refuse to remove such license, permit, or identification card from any billfold, purse, cover, or other container and to hand the same to any peace officer who has requested such person to do so if such peace officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a violation of article 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 of this title.

    (2) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class 2 misdemeanor traffic offense.


    Source: L. 94: Entire title amended with relocations, p. 2124, 1, effective January 1, 1995. L. 2000: (1) amended, p. 1351, 20, effective July 1, 2001."

    The annotation of interest is this:
    "There is no requirement that an individual must produce a driver's license when such individual is not the driver of a vehicle. Enright v. Groves, 39 Colo. App. 39, 560 P.2d 851 (1977)."


    To me this say's that no, I am not required by the state to produce an ID card to an officer if I am not operating a motor vehicle. I think I can also safely infer that I don't have to have an ID of any kind on my person. What I "may" have to do is give a LEO my name and birthdate "only" if I am suspect of some kind of crime. To me, this is useful since I go jogging a lot, and OC while doing so. It's hard to CC a Xdm .40 when you have minimal clothing on.

    As an avid 2A rights activist, I strongly support anyone in standing up for their God Given Rights as Americans. Stand up for yourself, your family, and most importantly, your Freedom. Allowing the Government, and/or it's agents to bully the people they SERVE is unacceptable.

    I hope this information helps someone else, as it will undoubtably help me in the future!

    Feel Free to share, and sticky this information!

    Peace be to you all,

    RebelWolf


    This information was gathered from the Colorado State Statute site found at http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext...main-h.htm&cp= don't take my word for it, read it yourself!
    Last edited by RebelWolf; 09-18-2011 at 05:05 PM. Reason: added link

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Welcome aboard RebelWolf. Glad you came out of the closet as it were.

    You and others may find this interesting:
    http://www.policeone.com/columnists/...to-provide-ID/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41

    CO has a Terry Law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome aboard RebelWolf. Glad you came out of the closet as it were.

    You and others may find this interesting:
    http://www.policeone.com/columnists/...to-provide-ID/
    Good read, and thank you for the welcome! I only came out of the closet on this forum, I've been OC'ing for about 3 years now, and was in the Army for the previous 3 (I'm 27). My family wasn't really into guns, and I wasn't until I became a sharp shooter in the Army. Now I couldn't imagine being anywhere without my weapon.

    My only contest to the article you provided, is that Colorado doesn't require that you provide ID (as listed in the statutes above). I have not found any statute that is like the "Terry law," such as the case in Nevada. It's nice to know that Nevada will put you in jail for being a human being, and not wanting to be messed with.

    I like the stickers that say "Don't tread on me" with the rattle snake.

    RebelWolf
    Last edited by RebelWolf; 09-17-2011 at 08:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    The summary of Hiibel seems to lack a key element, namely, what does someone's name have to do with whether they were involved is a squabble on the side of the road? Did they have the suspect's name and know that a crime was committed or underway? Why not ask the person in the car if she called 911, and if the guy (the yet unnamed Hiibel) was the guy she called about? What does a name have to do with it?

    Either key elements are missing from the summary, or SCOTUS has lost its collective mind.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    672
    Welcome to the forum. Good find. Will definitely add it to the arsenal
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  6. #6
    Regular Member zwvirtual's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Loveland, Colorado
    Posts
    16
    Colorado law does not require a person to carry ID, unless of course they are driving. In the case of a non-traffic related stop, if you are not carrying ID then the only information you have to give an officer is your name and address. Not your SSN or your DOB.
    Last edited by zwvirtual; 09-17-2011 at 01:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41

    That is all!

    Quote Originally Posted by zwvirtual View Post
    Colorado law does not require a person to carry ID, unless of course they are driving. In the case of a non-traffic related stop, if you are not carrying ID then the only information you have to give an officer is your name and address. Not your SSN or your DOB.
    Exactly! But what I was having a hard time finding was where it was written that we didn't have to show a DL. At the local POST training college, one of the students was telling me (bragging) about how he was going to be the top of his class, and was telling me how he would "crack down on the OC people" for trying to "do the LEO's job" (there was some kind of debate with him and a buddy about the 2A). We had a nice little chat about how he was going to do this. I find it Amazing what happens when you agree with a bonehead, he won't stop talking! After talking with him for about 30 min, we were "buddy buddy" by this time, and he was telling me that he could stop anyone on the street and ask them for ID at anytime, "Once I'm POST Certified."

    The conversation went on for another 20 Min while we debated the ID topic (the reason I posted this thread), and I informed him that I was pro-OC. He then started asking me in an "official tone" if I was "packing heat" on the campus. I told him that even "if" I was (stressed IF) there is no law that prohibits me from doing so (CRS 18-12-214 Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, LLC v. Regents of Univ. of Colo., __ P.3d __ (Colo. App. 2010).) To which he then went on to tell me that if he ever saw me in public I'd be his first "target." About this time a Sheriff's deputy came in (he was there to lecture), he asked what we were talking about and the "cadet" told him that we were discussing if I was able to carry on campus. The deputy looked at him kind of funny, and asked why. I then took over the conversation and gave the deputy a very brief overview of what was going on. The deputy looked at the cadet and told him that he was going to talk to his instructor, and find out where he was getting this "Crazy information."

    I was later approached by the Deputy and told that he "straightened that guy out" and not to worry about it any further. I asked him about the ID thing, and he said that unless your driving a car, you don't have to worry about it. I then asked him for the statute, which he didn't know.

    And that's the background story of this post.

    Rebel Wolf
    Last edited by RebelWolf; 09-17-2011 at 02:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Welcome to the forum. Good find. Will definitely add it to the arsenal
    Thank you, I sometimes have a LOT of free time on my hands. So I go browsing through the CRS, and blog some on my site. Speaking of which, I just posted an article related to contact with a Leo. It sites the CRS, and has some VERY cool videos that I found on YouTube, an "ok" read, and some good watching!

    Basically what my article leads up to is this, Don't give a cop the opportunity to take away your rights. Do it like this guy did.



    RebelWolf
    Last edited by RebelWolf; 09-17-2011 at 02:21 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lake Elsinore, California, USA
    Posts
    45
    Remember, the decision in Hilbel was a 5-4 split. Perhaps half of SCOTUS has lost its mind!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    The summary of Hiibel seems to lack a key element, namely, what does someone's name have to do with whether they were involved is a squabble on the side of the road? Did they have the suspect's name and know that a crime was committed or underway? Why not ask the person in the car if she called 911, and if the guy (the yet unnamed Hiibel) was the guy she called about? What does a name have to do with it?

    Either key elements are missing from the summary, or SCOTUS has lost its collective mind.

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by inetprez View Post
    Remember, the decision in Hilbel was a 5-4 split. Perhaps half of SCOTUS has lost its mind!
    A 5/4 decision carries the same import as a 9/0 in terms of effect.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelWolf View Post
    I like the stickers that say "Don't tread on me" with the rattle snake.
    You mean the 1775 Colonial Gadsden Flag?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A 5/4 decision carries the same import as a 9/0 in terms of effect.
    True, but it is the most likely to be overturned as well...
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelWolf View Post
    Basically what my article leads up to is this, Don't give a cop the opportunity to take away your rights. Do it like this guy did.
    I wouldn't have followed him saying "Am I being detained?" while the LEO was walking away. Couldn't make out most of the audio, but it seemed good. The ICE videos that are linked are also informative.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Thornton, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    136
    Welcome to the forum.

    BTW, I love being able to use Michie....it's an awesome reference.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelWolf View Post
    Exactly! But what I was having a hard time finding was where it was written that we didn't have to show a DL. At the local POST training college, one of the students was telling me (bragging) about how he was going to be the top of his class, and was telling me how he would "crack down on the OC people" for trying to "do the LEO's job" (there was some kind of debate with him and a buddy about the 2A). We had a nice little chat about how he was going to do this. I find it Amazing what happens when you agree with a bonehead, he won't stop talking! After talking with him for about 30 min, we were "buddy buddy" by this time, and he was telling me that he could stop anyone on the street and ask them for ID at anytime, "Once I'm POST Certified."

    The conversation went on for another 20 Min while we debated the ID topic (the reason I posted this thread), and I informed him that I was pro-OC. He then started asking me in an "official tone" if I was "packing heat" on the campus. I told him that even "if" I was (stressed IF) there is no law that prohibits me from doing so (CRS 18-12-214 Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, LLC v. Regents of Univ. of Colo., __ P.3d __ (Colo. App. 2010).) To which he then went on to tell me that if he ever saw me in public I'd be his first "target." About this time a Sheriff's deputy came in (he was there to lecture), he asked what we were talking about and the "cadet" told him that we were discussing if I was able to carry on campus. The deputy looked at him kind of funny, and asked why. I then took over the conversation and gave the deputy a very brief overview of what was going on. The deputy looked at the cadet and told him that he was going to talk to his instructor, and find out where he was getting this "Crazy information."

    I was later approached by the Deputy and told that he "straightened that guy out" and not to worry about it any further. I asked him about the ID thing, and he said that unless your driving a car, you don't have to worry about it. I then asked him for the statute, which he didn't know.

    And that's the background story of this post.

    Rebel Wolf
    Rebel Wolf: This guy is your typical wimpy bully that wants a position of authority just so he can continue to bully others.

    I had Polio when I was young and still could not walk properly when I was in the 6th grade....there was one of these types bullies that tried to push me arround (push me down, and when I fell he and his buddies would laugh) until I wacked him upside the head with a crutch. He went crying home to mama after he pick himself up off the ground. He never did bother me again.

    Good for you, sounds like the instructor deputy smacked this guy upside the head, hope he learned his lesson.

  16. #16
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by luv_jeeps View Post
    Welcome to the forum.

    BTW, I love being able to use Michie....it's an awesome reference.
    I agree! The only thing I don't like is that it's pretty "clunky," if you know what you are after, it's not to bad, but you have to search through a lot to get what you're after.

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Rebel Wolf: This guy is your typical wimpy bully that wants a position of authority just so he can continue to bully others.

    I had Polio when I was young and still could not walk properly when I was in the 6th grade....there was one of these types bullies that tried to push me arround (push me down, and when I fell he and his buddies would laugh) until I wacked him upside the head with a crutch. He went crying home to mama after he pick himself up off the ground. He never did bother me again.

    Good for you, sounds like the instructor deputy smacked this guy upside the head, hope he learned his lesson.
    I don't like bullies... Bully cops mostly. Abuse of power and authority really get's my goat!

    RebelWolf
    Last edited by RebelWolf; 09-18-2011 at 05:15 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    You mean the 1775 Colonial Gadsden Flag?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag
    Yes That one!

    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I wouldn't have followed him saying "Am I being detained?" while the LEO was walking away. Couldn't make out most of the audio, but it seemed good. The ICE videos that are linked are also informative.
    Yeah, If the officer started walking back to his car, I'd probably go back to whatever I was doing, as long as he said I wasn't being detained that is.

    Bullies like the officer in that video don't like it when you know the law, makes it harder to "put you in your place" as it were.

    RebelWolf

  18. #18
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    672
    The dude in that video is a retard. When the officer turns his back and walks off the encounter is over. You don't follow the officer and continue to ask am I being detained. No stupid, you're not being detained you're being a retard. (Unless I missed the officer give further instruction before walking off.)

    Also I'd bet money that if that exchange was not being recorded he would have found himself staring down the barrel and a boot on his neck.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  19. #19
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    The dude in that video is a retard. When the officer turns his back and walks off the encounter is over. You don't follow the officer and continue to ask am I being detained. No stupid, you're not being detained you're being a retard. (Unless I missed the officer give further instruction before walking off.)

    Also I'd bet money that if that exchange was not being recorded he would have found himself staring down the barrel and a boot on his neck.
    Yes, sadly enough he was pretty dumb. However toward the end after the officer left, he was talking to the other two guys there, and it seemed that they were all together protesting or something. So who really knows why he followed the cop, or why the cop left altogether.

    RebelWolf

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    No. However, under GO 755.32, refusal to cooperate may elevate the issue into a higher category of cause.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  21. #21
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    In all these cases you have to remember, "identify yourself" and "produce a government issued ID" are two totally different things.

    Yes, I would give an officer my name if he has some good reason to ask it, I would also ask for a citation naming the law I had broken before giving it to him.... but I do not carry any phyisical ID unless I am driving a Vehicle. It is just not a legal requirement.

  22. #22
    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    In all these cases you have to remember, "identify yourself" and "produce a government issued ID" are two totally different things.

    Yes, I would give an officer my name if he has some good reason to ask it, I would also ask for a citation naming the law I had broken before giving it to him.... but I do not carry any phyisical ID unless I am driving a Vehicle. It is just not a legal requirement.
    My points exactly. Thank you.

    RebelWolf

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •