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Thread: Open carry in Indiana

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    Open carry in Indiana

    I am very new to the whole open carry world. I have a LTCF from PA, I travel alot to Indiana to visit the family. My question is would my LTCF from PA also allow me to open carry in Indiana or would I have to conceal. Any information would be great. Thanks.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron2shel View Post
    I am very new to the whole open carry world. I have a LTCF from PA, I travel alot to Indiana to visit the family. My question is would my LTCF from PA also allow me to open carry in Indiana or would I have to conceal. Any information would be great. Thanks.
    Since Indiana recognizes all carry permits yes you can open carry in Indiana on your PA LTCF. Make sure you look up where you can and can't carry but Indiana has very few places where you can't which is very nice.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Thanks for your help.

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    Not quite right

    Being an out-of-state licensee, you must follow the laws of the state that issued your license. If you can open-carry in PA (which I think they allow), then you can here. When I first moved here, I could not technically open-carry with my GA license...but there are few, if any, LEOs that know what the laws in other states are. If it doesn't say "concealed" anywhere on your card, you're probably ok. Note...Indiana residents must use an Indiana handgun license while in the state of Indiana.

    Hope that helps

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    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Sampson View Post
    Being an out-of-state licensee, you must follow the laws of the state that issued your license.
    Not really. You must follow Indiana laws while in Indiana.

    Recognizing other licenses "according to the terms thereof" doesn't mean according to the laws of the issuing state.

    For instance, you could carry in a bar in Indiana even if that would be illegal in the issuing state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Not really. You must follow Indiana laws while in Indiana.

    Recognizing other licenses "according to the terms thereof" doesn't mean according to the laws of the issuing state.

    For instance, you could carry in a bar in Indiana even if that would be illegal in the issuing state.
    In agreement with ATM, your out of state license isn't any good at the Indiana State Fairgrounds, even if it is good in your home state fairgrounds.


    Indiana law does not differentiate between open and concealed carry.
    Indiana law does not differentiate between open and concealed carry.
    Indiana law does not differentiate between open and concealed carry.

    That's going in my signature line.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    ATM and CCE are correct.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Not really. You must follow Indiana laws while in Indiana.

    Recognizing other licenses "according to the terms thereof" doesn't mean according to the laws of the issuing state.

    For instance, you could carry in a bar in Indiana even if that would be illegal in the issuing state.
    Do you guys have a cite or case history for this determination? It has been discussed before, but I'm unsure of the outcome...

    For instance my MI CPL is a CONCEALED Pistol License. I do not have an Open Carry License. If an IN LEO looks at my License, and reads CONCEALED, what will he do If I'm Open Carrying?

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    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/cod.../ar47/ch2.html

    IC 35-47-2-21
    ...(b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.

    People just try to read too much into "the terms thereof" from the Indiana code which recognizes other licenses.
    The laws of the issuing state are certainly terms by which the carrier must abide while in that state, but those laws are not terms by which the carrier may or must abide while in another state. Their carry laws may actually be in conflict with the laws of other states. These are not terms of the license

    If "terms thereof" were to include permitted words on the license like "concealed" to exclude any other type of carry, then I guess Indiana would only recognize those states that issue a "license" rather than naming them a "permit", and then only for "handguns" rather than "weapons".

    "Terms thereof" would mean that an expired license would not be recognized. If there were a license (not just the issuing state's laws) that specifically prohibited the carrier from or restricted their manner of carry anywhere, (example: licensee may only carry while wearing glasses or contact lenses) that might stand up as a term thereof in Indiana as well.

    The lack of case law suggests that non-resident carriers don't seem to get charged (or at least aren't prosecuted) for this non-issue.
    A case would revolve around the intent of this recognition code, since there would be no other actual Indiana law violation to charge them with but carrying without a (recognized) license. I don't think that's going to happen.

    An Indiana LEO should conclude if your license/permit is valid and thus recognized before sending you on your way to carry legally according to Indiana's laws.
    Last edited by ATM; 10-13-2011 at 01:13 PM.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/cod.../ar47/ch2.html

    IC 35-47-2-21
    ...(b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.

    People just try to read too much into "the terms thereof" from the Indiana code which recognizes other licenses.
    The laws of the issuing state are certainly terms by which the carrier must abide while in that state, but those laws are not terms by which the carrier may or must abide while in another state. Their carry laws may actually be in conflict with the laws of other states. These are not terms of the license

    If "terms thereof" were to include permitted words on the license like "concealed" to exclude any other type of carry, then I guess Indiana would only recognize those states that issue a "license" rather than naming them a "permit", and then only for "handguns" rather than "weapons".

    "Terms thereof" would mean that an expired license would not be recognized. If there were a license (not just the issuing state's laws) that specifically prohibited the carrier from or restricted their manner of carry anywhere, (example: licensee may only carry while wearing glasses or contact lenses) that might stand up as a term thereof in Indiana as well.

    The lack of case law suggests that non-resident carriers don't seem to get charged (or at least aren't prosecuted) for this non-issue.
    A case would revolve around the intent of this recognition code, since there would be no other actual Indiana law violation to charge them with but carrying without a (recognized) license. I don't think that's going to happen.

    An Indiana LEO should conclude if your license/permit is valid and thus recognized before sending you on your way to carry legally according to Indiana's laws.
    Exactly ATM. Also if it were someone from Illinois trying to carry on a FOID card that wouldn't be recognized because it's only to purchase a gun. Being a MI resident if they really charged me I'd go to court saying that I do have a "License (to) purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol".
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 10-13-2011 at 04:00 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Being a MI resident if they really charged me I'd go to court saying that I do have a "License (to) purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol".
    What does this license look like and where can I get one?

    The one I have says Michigan Concealed Pistol License...

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    What does this license look like and where can I get one?

    The one I have says Michigan Concealed Pistol License...
    It's what most call it, a permit to purchase. Many think it is only for purchase but when you look it up in the Michigan firearms laws:

    28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    i wanted to say thankyou all, i am from wa and have my wa cpl and will be visiting family in your great state in june, you answered my question before i asked, though i am still gonna look up state law on carry. have a great day y'all

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    Cool Concealed

    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Do you guys have a cite or case history for this determination? It has been discussed before, but I'm unsure of the outcome...

    For instance my MI CPL is a CONCEALED Pistol License. I do not have an Open Carry License. If an IN LEO looks at my License, and reads CONCEALED, what will he do If I'm Open Carrying?
    If your license says concealed then you must carry concealed. Indiana makes no distinction between concealed or open, but only if you have an Indiana license to carry. Your license specifically says concealed. If you open carry, you will probably get arrested and/or at the very least have your weapon impounded! Don't take my word for it though, laws and the interpretation of them vary greatly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stego View Post
    If your license says concealed then you must carry concealed. Indiana makes no distinction between concealed or open, but only if you have an Indiana license to carry. Your license specifically says concealed. If you open carry, you will probably get arrested and/or at the very least have your weapon impounded! Don't take my word for it though, laws and the interpretation of them vary greatly!
    Absolutely wrong. I open carry in Indiana all the time. I'm from Ohio. Ohio license says "Ohio license to Carry a Concealed Handgun." However, the license does NOT require the firearm to be carried concealed and there is no law that says otherwise.

    IC 35-47-2-21
    ...(b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.

    The words on the license is NOT the terms of the license.
    Last edited by color of law; 08-12-2017 at 12:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stego View Post
    If your license says concealed then you must carry concealed. Indiana makes no distinction between concealed or open, but only if you have an Indiana license to carry. Your license specifically says concealed. If you open carry, you will probably get arrested and/or at the very least have your weapon impounded! Don't take my word for it though, laws and the interpretation of them vary greatly!
    Welcome to OCDO, Stego. You do realize that you have posted to a six year old thread, don't you? Before your post today, the last post to this thread was December 1, 2011.

    As was posted before, there is a great deal of uncertainty about this subject. Several times others have posted the same opinion that you have posted. As a matter of fact, it has been posted so many times that no one has posted to this thread for six years, because the subject has been exausted, but no one has been able to post any proof that opinion is anything more than rumor.
    Can you cite a court case where what you say has actually happened in an Indiana court? I know of no one that has been arrested in Indiana for open carrying on an out of state "concealed" carry license. Can you give us the name of a person arrested for that? Can you give us the name of a police officer that has made such an arrest? Can you give us a "case number" where a charge was filed under these circumstances? Can you give us anything except your opinion of what would "probably" happen? What about a written opinion by the Indiana Attorney General or any other legal authority. On OCDO, the standard is higher than that. I assume that you read the rules of OCDO before you posted. If you did not, the "Basic Rules" of OCDO can be read here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    Please notice Rule 5. (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    Most of the members here on OCDO are aware of the "rumors" surrounding the Indiana law and restating that "rumor" does little to clarify the subject.
    Last edited by gutshot II; 08-12-2017 at 10:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stego View Post
    If your license says concealed then you must carry concealed. Indiana makes no distinction between concealed or open, but only if you have an Indiana license to carry. Your license specifically says concealed. If you open carry, you will probably get arrested and/or at the very least have your weapon impounded! Don't take my word for it though, laws and the interpretation of them vary greatly!
    Don't know who your instructor was, but you could not be more wrong. when something is not specifically forbidden, it is by default legal.

    Indiana has state preemption on gun laws and the application does not vary.

    To read real open carry stories from Indiana or to contribute your own, click here
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't know who your instructor was, but you could not be more wrong. when something is not specifically forbidden, it is by default legal.

    Indiana has state preemption on gun laws and the application does not vary.

    To read real open carry stories from Indiana or to contribute your own, click here
    Sometimes, Grape, the wrong information is simply inexplicable. Several years ago I took a class from a Virginia local NRA Certified Instructor teaching a standard NRA class at the NRA Range who opined that Virginia's Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) meant that one could only carry ONE concealed handgun at a time, that if the law meant you could carry more than one concealed handgun at a time it would have been called the Concealed HandgunS Permit! You can't make this stuff up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Sometimes, Grape, the wrong information is simply inexplicable. Several years ago I took a class from a Virginia local NRA Certified Instructor teaching a standard NRA class at the NRA Range who opined that Virginia's Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) meant that one could only carry ONE concealed handgun at a time, that if the law meant you could carry more than one concealed handgun at a time it would have been called the Concealed HandgunS Permit! You can't make this stuff up.
    Virginia has an answer for that:
    " 1-227. Number.
    A word used in the singular includes the plural and a word used in the plural includes the singular."
    https://www.google.com/search?q=va+l...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    I suspect most (all?) states have a similar law.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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