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Thread: Something I noticed in Santa Fe- county admin building no-guns sign

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    Something I noticed in Santa Fe- county admin building no-guns sign

    I don't know why I didn't think of this before.

    A little while ago I had some business in the county administrative office building downtown. I did not see it on the way in, but as I was leaving I happened to notice a sign printed with the gun-buster icon taped into the window by the door. It had been printed off of a computer on regular printer paper.

    Is this building private property? If it is not, it would seem to me they cannot prohibit it. Same deal as what is happening in Ruidoso with State Pre-emption.

    Anyone know anything about this that I don't?

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    Unless state law prohibits guns in the building, they can't do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    Unless state law prohibits guns in the building, they can't do that.
    I'l start with I'm one of those out-of-stater's that dosen't know NM law.

    I know here in Colorado, open carry can be regulated at public buildings just by placing a 'gun buster' sign, but that concealed requires the addition of metal detectors.

    I hope to spend more time down there in NM so, please, what's the difference down there? This site has by and large been a great referance for me and I really appreciate the help you have all given here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I'l start with I'm one of those out-of-stater's that dosen't know NM law.

    I know here in Colorado, open carry can be regulated at public buildings just by placing a 'gun buster' sign, but that concealed requires the addition of metal detectors.

    I hope to spend more time down there in NM so, please, what's the difference down there? This site has by and large been a great referance for me and I really appreciate the help you have all given here.
    The difference is that according to the state constitution there is complete state pre-emption. According to this rule, no local entity can make any decisions whatsoever regarding restricting carry beyond what the state has specifically designated to be no-carry locations.

    So in this case, some administrator seems to have taken it upon themselves to put a sign up, in violation of the law.

    An exception to this would be if the building is private property, where an owner can do what they wish. Which being a county building I don't see how it could be.

    I am planning on calling the county manager's office to inquire into this.
    Last edited by AH.74; 09-21-2011 at 02:01 PM.

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    Just a follow-up.

    I was finally able to speak with the risk manager at the SF county offices. He informed me that all county buildings have a no-firearms restriction. I explained how this was not legal and gave him the specific information from Article 2 section 6 of the NM state constitution. He told me they had been given this directive by the legal department and gave me their contact info.

    I then spoke with an attorney over in that department, repeated the quote from the constitution and informed her about what has recently happened in Ruidoso. She was unaware of that, unsurprisingly. I stressed to her that this order was in violation of the constitution and therefore illegal and unenforceable.

    She said she would look into it and I stated that I would be following up with her in a week or two.

    I hope they do the right thing. I have no intention of letting this go.

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    Just wanted to chime in to say thank you for looking in to this and fighting for our rights, patriot.

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    Ok I'm trying to see what kind of county building. If your talking the court houses why the need to carry? Theres armed police in the buildings. Yes I agree theres laws and its a public building but theres also pretty official people working in them and they have no clue if your ok or some whacko coming to get revenge or do damage. Think county building your pissed off at some person working there. And these days theres not many happy with goverment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    Ok I'm trying to see what kind of county building. If your talking the court houses why the need to carry? Theres armed police in the buildings. Yes I agree theres laws and its a public building but theres also pretty official people working in them and they have no clue if your ok or some whacko coming to get revenge or do damage. Think county building your pissed off at some person working there. And these days theres not many happy with goverment.
    Please give me some credit.

    I am not talking about courthouses. Did I say I had business at the courts? No. All courts are prohibited by state law. You should know that.

    I am talking about any county building. The administration offices are downtown near the plaza. The HR offices are in a separate building in another part of town. Those are the places I am talking about.

    They have put in place illegal orders. It is wrong. That is the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    SNIP If your talking the court houses why the need to carry? Theres armed police in the buildings. Yes I agree theres laws and its a public building but theres also pretty official people working in them and they have no clue if your ok or some whacko coming to get revenge or do damage. Think county building your pissed off at some person working there. And these days theres not many happy with goverment.
    First off, the police have no obligation to protect you. This has been decided by the Supreme Court. Please stop pretending that the police will save us all. Are the "pretty official people" more important than anyone else? I am pretty sure their lives are no more important than any other person's life. Apply your whacko theory to any other place an you end up with a total gun ban.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Didnt say officials are more important than anyone. Boy you twisted my post up nice. I did say people get pissed at govt officials and can and have taken out their anger at them. And yes last time I checked cops are paid to serve and PROTECT. Are we that bad off we live in constant fear and we have to carry a gun every waking moment? I go to CNM during the day and leave my gun at home because its a law. Do I feel safe? not really but I follow the law because I really dont like jail. Its not the end of the world if you dont wear a gun to a public county building. I carry most of the time and if I'm out at night but how can anyone live in that much fear and paranoia?

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    BTW what you consider whacko really isnt. Try like me living all my life in chicago where you couldnt even own a gun. Then move out here and swamped in freedom. To me I have so much more freedom whatever little bumps in the road here dont bother me. so if someone asks to remove my weapon or I cant enter with one oh well its no big deal. I follow the buisness rules or the govt law.

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    awnuts, you are missing the point and sounding uneducated while you do so.

    This is not about appearing paranoid and fearful, and having to carry a gun everywhere at every moment. I too attend school and disarm to go into school buildings.

    What it is about is confronting illegal orders posted by a government entity in violation of the NM State Constitution. It is a violation of all our rights and it is wrong. We cannot allow people to abuse power, be ignorant of the actual law and act in corrupt fashion.

    You say you follow the law and rules. Do you want to abide by rules that are put in place illegally?

    Enjoy your freedoms out here. But don't be so afraid of them.

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    I do enjoy the freedom and embrace it. But hell if I'm going to protest and fight to the nth degree over something trivial. If someone doesnt want a gun on thier property the last time I checked the laws says the owners can post it or even request you dont carry. To me it doesnt matter if its a right i'm being respectfull to the request. I'm not going to shove my rights down anyones throat. Yes I see your point, it is a violation of law but unless you work in a govt building,How often do you really go into one? Now I would get vocal on a topic of carrying on campus because this affects me all the time and many others. But in general I just dont see the big stinky over not wearing in a public building if asked or told. Pick and choose a fight wisely and one that can effect a change for everyone and matters. Sometimes I think people are a bit too critical in respect to laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    I do enjoy the freedom and embrace it. But hell if I'm going to protest and fight to the nth degree over something trivial. If someone doesnt want a gun on thier property the last time I checked the laws says the owners can post it or even request you dont carry. To me it doesnt matter if its a right i'm being respectfull to the request. I'm not going to shove my rights down anyones throat. Yes I see your point, it is a violation of law but unless you work in a govt building,How often do you really go into one? Now I would get vocal on a topic of carrying on campus because this affects me all the time and many others. But in general I just dont see the big stinky over not wearing in a public building if asked or told. Pick and choose a fight wisely and one that can effect a change for everyone and matters. Sometimes I think people are a bit too critical in respect to laws.
    You are absolutely and 100% wrong. You sound exactly like someone from Chicago.

    We are not talking about a private property owner posting his or her own building according to personal preference. This is a public location, illegally posted. That is the only point that matters here and I will not stand for it. Nor should you, if you would only realize that.

    It does not matter how often I need to go, only that I or anyone else needs to at all. That is completely beside the point. Campus affects you, so that's all that matters? What a poor argument.

    You fail to see the point because you are acting like a sheep, following orders and not questioning if they are right or wrong.

    As far as your last statement, that is utterly ridiculous. If we are not critical, bad laws are passed. And people like you allow them to be passed without caring enough.

    If you give up your right to carry in one place, what about the next time and place? Where does it stop?

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    Again I like the fact you feel the need to insult me. It shows you lack the capacity to look at things and carry a debate within reason. With this said, my thought is again DO WE NEED TO CARRY EVERYWHERE 24/7? Maybe the city council decided they didnt want guns just like you cant smoke inside public buildings. Should I sue the county building because I cant smoke and I feel I have a right to? The interpetation of the 2nd ammendment in some cases and some ways has been carried to extremes.There is nothing in the ammendment saying anything about when or where we can carry so states intervene and create laws. Just as I have a CCW that doesnt give me a legal right to kill anyone. As for campus carry I used that as an example of picking and choosing a battle. As far as being a sheep you dont know me to make that call. I see your posts in here following the legal side and maybe its your job or your hobby to be active in the law. You want to spend your time changing laws thats fine. I dont have to agree with every law around and really get bent out of shape because someplace is not inline with the law. I got more of an issue with the TSA than I have being restricted to where I carry a gun. I have other issues with laws that rate a higher priority of some place where I have to disarm a few minutes. OMG! They are in violation of the state law. I really need to carry a gun in a public building.The law is wrong! They are violating my rights! Anyone that disagrees with me is a sheep! Talk about me looking stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    Again I like the fact you feel the need to insult me. It shows you lack the capacity to look at things and carry a debate within reason. With this said, my thought is again DO WE NEED TO CARRY EVERYWHERE 24/7? Maybe the city council decided they didnt want guns just like you cant smoke inside public buildings. Should I sue the county building because I cant smoke and I feel I have a right to? The interpetation of the 2nd ammendment in some cases and some ways has been carried to extremes.There is nothing in the ammendment saying anything about when or where we can carry so states intervene and create laws. Just as I have a CCW that doesnt give me a legal right to kill anyone. As for campus carry I used that as an example of picking and choosing a battle. As far as being a sheep you dont know me to make that call. I see your posts in here following the legal side and maybe its your job or your hobby to be active in the law. You want to spend your time changing laws thats fine. I dont have to agree with every law around and really get bent out of shape because someplace is not inline with the law. I got more of an issue with the TSA than I have being restricted to where I carry a gun. I have other issues with laws that rate a higher priority of some place where I have to disarm a few minutes. OMG! They are in violation of the state law. I really need to carry a gun in a public building.The law is wrong! They are violating my rights! Anyone that disagrees with me is a sheep! Talk about me looking stupid.
    This forum is about standing up for our rights, not conceding them. You sound like an anti. Very much so.

    The NM State Constitution says that a "city council" or any local municipality does not have the authority to make that decision. You seem unable to get that through your head.

    If you cannot support our rights, then maybe you should not be posting on this forum. If you cannot support my efforts to make our government abide by their own laws, stop posting in this thread.

    Oh and by the way, you might try reading some of the other threads on this page. According to your logic, the Mayor of Ruidoso was right in putting his illegal gun ban in place and the parks in Cruces should have remained illegally posted. I guess all the other people who have been working to correct these situations are wrong in your eyes as well.

    And I suppose the people working toward restaurant carry should just pack it in- we don't need to carry in restaurants now, do we?
    Last edited by AH.74; 10-23-2011 at 11:47 PM.

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    Ok because I dont support your view I dont need to post. You expect me to think that your the leading authority and know it all? Sorry I do what I do and so do you. I see what your saying about the law is wrong. Big deal!Your inconvienced for the short time your in a building that says no guns. Do you feel that in the short time your unarmed that there is a ton of people waiting to kill you? I'm not using logic on you I'm thinking more common sense. There really isnt any bigger issues in your life? I'm not anti gun either I been shooting and hunting near 50 years. Also a life member of the NRA and support the ILA. Now if you want to get something really going that is a real issue lets see some action on getting Castle doctrine here. or maybe more open carry activities. Your attitude is like, if I dont carry the same gun as you I'm not a shooter lol. I'm not conceding to anything just trying to keep things on an even keel. I will admit I dont have an activist mentality or hardcore. I watch where I'm going and if its posted or requested not to carry I leave the gun in the car or go someplace else. No big deal its not conceding its getting along with people even anti gun types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    Ok because I dont support your view I dont need to post. You expect me to think that your the leading authority and know it all? Sorry I do what I do and so do you. I see what your saying about the law is wrong. Big deal!Your inconvienced for the short time your in a building that says no guns. Do you feel that in the short time your unarmed that there is a ton of people waiting to kill you? I'm not using logic on you I'm thinking more common sense. There really isnt any bigger issues in your life? I'm not anti gun either I been shooting and hunting near 50 years. Also a life member of the NRA and support the ILA. Now if you want to get something really going that is a real issue lets see some action on getting Castle doctrine here. or maybe more open carry activities. Your attitude is like, if I dont carry the same gun as you I'm not a shooter lol. I'm not conceding to anything just trying to keep things on an even keel. I will admit I dont have an activist mentality or hardcore. I watch where I'm going and if its posted or requested not to carry I leave the gun in the car or go someplace else. No big deal its not conceding its getting along with people even anti gun types.
    Your mentality is wrong for this forum, and for owning and carrying guns. It is not about inconvenience. I also don't care what you think about me, I'm trying to stand up for our rights. You're willing to give them up.

    Are you able to predict when someone will attack you? What if, for the sake of discussion, it IS at that moment? Where's your gun? Oh right, it's out in the car.

    Of course there are bigger issues in my life. But, I saw something wrong and want to make it right. That doesn't compute with you? I shouldn't bother, it's stupid?

    Every time you leave your gun in the car, it is unsecured and a risk to be stolen. Does that matter to you? That is one of the reasons the restaurant carry process began to develop- so people wouldn't have to leave guns in cars.

    Getting back to the law- since you show a very poor understanding of it- do you know what state pre-emption means, and what the purpose of it is?

    States are not allowed to "intervene" in the US Constitution. No, the 2A does not say where we can carry, but state law does. By definition, if something is not specifically spelled out as illegal it is legal. And if a legal place is posted as prohibited, guess what? It's ILLEGAL AND WRONG. And we as citizens should not blindly accept it.

    If you really do have a carry permit you seem rather cavalier about your knowledge of the law.

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    LOL Yea I guess your right I have the wrong mentality. It never occurred to you that by trying to shove an agenda down others people throats that it will do more harm than good to your cause? No one like being forced fed peoples agendas. For the most part I dont live in fear of society. I go about my buisness and mind to it and not what could happen or might happen. I dont sleep with a gun and live paranoid worrying about someone attacking me. Anti gun owners look at us as gun toting idiots and people that are just waiting for a chance to use a weapon. We need to work on that image and present ourselves as respectable and rational owners and users. We need to get along with people that want nothing to do with guns. So if you run into a place that doesnt allow guns oh well its your choice to disarm or leave. Not sit there arguing its my right or your wrong.As for leaving my gun in my car its not announced to everyone and its locked in my car in a locked box and my car has an alarm. This law is wrong in the aspect it defies state constitution I agree but the frequency of anyone being in the offices is small.I know I dont go to county offices everyday and if I need to disarm ok no big deal.I go to olive garden I dont bring a gun they have a full bar. Again your driven to change laws thats fine.I'm willing to work with what I got and whatever changes come my way.But because I dont have your mentality I'm not wrong. I have been shot twice and stabbed once if anyone has a reason to be anti gun its me. But because of my life experience with guns I tend to support. Not being cavalier just resonable and some common sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    It never occurred to you that by trying to shove an agenda down others people throats that it will do more harm than good to your cause? No one like being forced fed peoples agendas.
    Good Lord, you just don't get it. This isn't about agendas. It's about legal and illegal application of the state constitution's pre-emption.

    Also, "LOL" has no place in an intelligent discussion between adults. Your writing style leads me to disbelieve your personal claims. I find you to be behaving like a troll in my thread which had honest intentions.

    I won't reply to you any further, it will do no good and is wasting my time.
    Last edited by AH.74; 10-24-2011 at 05:11 PM.

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    At least I wasnt insulting as you. And I did use the Lol as it is common online. But i did find it funny you questioned my thought.Maybe I should of typed WTF! then you wouldnt be as upset. Then as you exit the thread you throw a few more insults. I can promise you I'm not a child and a good sized man at that and not some young troll as you suggested.

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