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Picking a fight with Hartford.....

dcmdon

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Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Yes, there was something where the town refused an order from the BFPE, then refused an order from the court. And as far as I know the guy still doesn't have a permit.

There is nothing in the statute that allows anyone other than the local issuing authority to actually issue. This is a big problem.
Also, the BFPE doesn't have the authority to sanction a town in any financial or criminal way.
 
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KIX

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Correct, but they can do other things that the towns don't like:

Move denials based on permitting application issues to the front of the line
Move denials based on applicant not submitting extra, non-mandated information to the front of the line
Move applicants that were delayed the opportunity to submit paperwork to the front of the line

etc.

There are ways they can also be a thorn in the issuing authorities side that is both within their means and simply works to get them to follow the same laws we all do.

For the record, I wonder how many people just drop their application process simply because of time. I met a few already, seems like a strategy for the town as well "drag it out and they won't even follow through with their application".

Jonathan
 

dcmdon

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Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Moving those denials to the head of the line will not help anything.

It also means moving someone who has most likely had their permit pulled to the back of the line.

Its also a toss up as to what would annoy the local issuing authority more, getting a denied person a PP or getting someone whose PP has been yanked reinstated.
Also, don't forget that since a person whose PP has been pulled only needs to go the DPS to get it back, the BFPE actually is more effective in restoration (Because the DPS generally restores PPs when the BFPE issues a ruling) than in pushing denials ahead.

Don
 

Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D.

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Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
154
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Correct, but they can do other things that the towns don't like:

Move denials based on permitting application issues to the front of the line
Move denials based on applicant not submitting extra, non-mandated information to the front of the line
Move applicants that were delayed the opportunity to submit paperwork to the front of the line

etc.

There are ways they can also be a thorn in the issuing authorities side that is both within their means and simply works to get them to follow the same laws we all do.

For the record, I wonder how many people just drop their application process simply because of time. I met a few already, seems like a strategy for the town as well "drag it out and they won't even follow through with their application".

Jonathan

Just for the sake of posterity, I will list my experience in getting my permit as a resident of Westport, CT.

I showed up to the local PD and asked for an application. It was given to me right away with a set of printed instructions, which were very clear. I then took my basic safety course and upon receiving my certificate, filled out the application. When I visited the Westport PD for finger printing (and to turn in my application) they were nothing but professional and polite. About 7 weeks after waiting for the temporary permit I phoned the PD to check on the status. I was politely informed by a detective that they would contact me once it was completed and signed off on by the chief of police. The detective I spoke to (I unfortunately forget his name) phoned me a few days later saying that my permit was ready to be picked up (I'm guessing that my phone call helped remind them it needed to be completed).

It did take the outside of time allowed (8 weeks) but the temporary permit was issued within the permitted time frame. After receiving my temporary permit I went up to Middletown, had my photograph taken and was issued my state permit in about 10 minutes. I'm sorry to hear that so many people have such issues with getting their permits in CT. I have to write that my experience was a good one and I didn't come across any problems. I guess I was lucky...
 

KIX

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Moving those denials to the head of the line will not help anything.

It also means moving someone who has most likely had their permit pulled to the back of the line.
Don

No, not really.

Those hearings are much quicker then revocation hearings (generally speaking).

I disagree about it not helping. It helps the citizen get their permit without having to wait a year plus for a hearing. Many issuing authorities seem to be realizing that they can't deny suitability on the extra issues.

Jonathan
 

dcmdon

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Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Just for the sake of posterity, I will list my experience in getting my permit as a resident of Westport, CT.

I showed up to the local PD and asked for an application. It was given to me right away with a set of printed instructions, which were very clear. I then took my basic safety course and upon receiving my certificate, filled out the application. When I visited the Westport PD for finger printing (and to turn in my application) they were nothing but professional and polite. About 7 weeks after waiting for the temporary permit I phoned the PD to check on the status. I was politely informed by a detective that they would contact me once it was completed and signed off on by the chief of police. The detective I spoke to (I unfortunately forget his name) phoned me a few days later saying that my permit was ready to be picked up (I'm guessing that my phone call helped remind them it needed to be completed).

It did take the outside of time allowed (8 weeks) but the temporary permit was issued within the permitted time frame. After receiving my temporary permit I went up to Middletown, had my photograph taken and was issued my state permit in about 10 minutes. I'm sorry to hear that so many people have such issues with getting their permits in CT. I have to write that my experience was a good one and I didn't come across any problems. I guess I was lucky...

Sir,
How the process goes is entirely dependent on the attitude of the person in charge of issuing pistol permits.

As an instructor I've had some VERY good experiences through my students. In two cases the Officer processing the application noticed that I had not signed the course completion certificate. (I really need to work on that).

In both cases the officers accepted an email from me attesting to the fact that the applicant had completed a NRA basic handgun course.

In one case it was Sgt. Tom Lepore of Windsor.
In the other case it was Officer Gerry Lacasse of Newington.

Both men went over and above what was required. They were professional and courteous.

They are also from known "good" towns. Where the PD makes every attempt to live within the spirit of the law. Just like it sounded like the dept you applied to did.

But there ARE bad towns out there. Just like there are good towns. I honestly don't know how easy or difficult Westport makes things for applicants.

What I do know is that if you are or used to be a LEO in NY, you would certainly get better treatment than the average person, even in a known difficult town.

Don

p.s. When I got my Pistol Permit at the ripe old age of 21 back in the late 80s, I had an excellent experience with Det. Duncan Ayr of the Branford PD. I called Det. Ayr on the day the time was up. He told me my FBI check had not come back but that he'd call me back in an hour. About 45 min later he called me and told me I could come down and pick it up. When I got there, Det Ayrd said that he's found that checking with my high school teachers is a better barometer than a NICS check. So he called my high school and spoke to a couple of teachers. The statute actually makes allowances for this kind of discretion, but most PDs don't want to use it. I can't blame them in today's litigious society.

p.p.s. If you are a LEO, its my understanding that you don't need a permit. You are covered under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA). Am I missing something.
 

Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D.

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
154
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Sir,
How the process goes is entirely dependent on the attitude of the person in charge of issuing pistol permits.

As an instructor I've had some VERY good experiences through my students. In two cases the Officer processing the application noticed that I had not signed the course completion certificate. (I really need to work on that).

In both cases the officers accepted an email from me attesting to the fact that the applicant had completed a NRA basic handgun course.

In one case it was Sgt. Tom Lepore of Windsor.
In the other case it was Officer Gerry Lacasse of Newington.

Both men went over and above what was required. They were professional and courteous.

They are also from known "good" towns. Where the PD makes every attempt to live within the spirit of the law. Just like it sounded like the dept you applied to did.

But there ARE bad towns out there. Just like there are good towns. I honestly don't know how easy or difficult Westport makes things for applicants.

What I do know is that if you are or used to be a LEO in NY, you would certainly get better treatment than the average person, even in a known difficult town.

Don

p.s. When I got my Pistol Permit at the ripe old age of 21 back in the late 80s, I had an excellent experience with Det. Duncan Ayr of the Branford PD. I called Det. Ayr on the day the time was up. He told me my FBI check had not come back but that he'd call me back in an hour. About 45 min later he called me and told me I could come down and pick it up. When I got there, Det Ayrd said that he's found that checking with my high school teachers is a better barometer than a NICS check. So he called my high school and spoke to a couple of teachers. The statute actually makes allowances for this kind of discretion, but most PDs don't want to use it. I can't blame them in today's litigious society.

p.p.s. If you are a LEO, its my understanding that you don't need a permit. You are covered under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA). Am I missing something.

dcmdon,

Thanks for posting. I'm aware of all of the above. I just wanted to list my personal experience with the Westport PD (YMMV). It is my hope that more people will have the same positive/lawful experience that I had...
 

Good Citizen

Regular Member
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Mar 11, 2011
Messages
104
Location
US
From SGT K NYPD Post


"It did take the outside of time allowed (8 weeks) "

You call haveing the PD violate your right and due process of 8 weeks a good experience, Because they talked nice to you?

That a total Contradiction, & to me makes no sence.

Thats like sayin' my prison cellie rapes me every night but gives me a bag a fritos after, so it's OK?:eek::uhoh:

It's not OK, those checks come back Pretty fast, & they sit on them & your OK the PD Violated Your right, & what there mandated to do by state Law???

After 8 weeks is a deraliction of duty, Period & has no perscription under CT state Law other than a denial & BOFE Appeal!

I'm Glad you feel so good they were nice to you while they violated You, That is nowhere near what i consider the Threshold of a good experience!
 
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dcmdon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
When Sgt Lepore of Windsor contacted me re my students app he said he had not sent the prints off to the FBI yet. We resolved my error on a Tuesday. He called my student that Friday to tell her she could come pick up her permit.

So once he had all the info that he was by law required to collect, Sgt. Lepore turned around an application in THREE DAYS. The entire process from submission to permit, even with my error, took about two weeks.
 
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KIX

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
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Location
, ,
Too late to do it now.... but.... this is what I posted on CCDL's facebook page.... I now know why Hartford is playing their games:

For those of you following my suitability study at www.ctpistolpermitissus.com - you may know of my battles with getting applicant paperwork from Hartford. Well, I thought I would need a Freedom Of Information Act request, but a resident finally go a copy for me. Wait until later today (Monday)..... Hartford has indeed beat EVERY other town in violation of a citizens rights. Now I know why they don't want to just hand this paperwork out!

It will be worth it when I post it on the web tomorrow. They are indeed, the worst town so far. They beat towns like Fairfield, New Haven, West Hartford ant the like......

Sad for Hartford citizens.... really sad when a town wants to violate your rights like this.....

Jonathan
 

Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D.

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
154
Location
Fairfield County, CT
From SGT K NYPD Post


"It did take the outside of time allowed (8 weeks) "

You call haveing the PD violate your right and due process of 8 weeks a good experience, Because they talked nice to you?

That a total Contradiction, & to me makes no sence.

Thats like sayin' my prison cellie rapes me every night but gives me a bag a fritos after, so it's OK?:eek::uhoh:

It's not OK, those checks come back Pretty fast, & they sit on them & your OK the PD Violated Your right, & what there mandated to do by state Law???

After 8 weeks is a deraliction of duty, Period & has no perscription under CT state Law other than a denial & BOFE Appeal!

I'm Glad you feel so good they were nice to you while they violated You, That is nowhere near what i consider the Threshold of a good experience!

Dear Sir,

As they issued my permit before the 8 weeks was up there was no violation. You may have misunderstood me here. I should have wrote that it was the outside of 7 weeks (I meant that they got it to me a few days shy of the 8 week period). I actually don't care if they were nice to me or not (they just happened to be), as long as they are following state law.
 
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