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Thread: OC on RTC Public Transportation (Need Update!)

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    OC on RTC Public Transportation (Need Update!)

    Hey yall,

    THe recent post about OC on RTC in Reno got me thinking about OC on RTC Busses in Las Vegas. I went back and dug up the original threads from Nevada Carrier, but I wasn't able to locate a final policy statement from the RTC. Here's the last update that I saw:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...rtation-update

    My wife has just started riding the RTC while her car is out of commision, and she doesn't have her permit yet, so OC would be the only option. Nevada Carrier, did you ever get a final policy statement from them? I searched the RTC website, but diodn't come up with anything.

    Thanks!

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    I ride the bus everyday and OC on the bus all the time. I have never been confronted at all abot it from anyone, and even before I started OC on the bus I asked as many employees as I could at the BTC downtown and have been told yes by almost all of them but like you I havent been able to find anything in writing so I'm gonna continue until told otherwise

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    I sent an e-mail to RTC Washoe about firearms policy. Here is the body of the e-mail. Will post response once I receive one.




    I was wondering if RTC was regulated by the city/state. If so I was wondering what RTC's firearm policy was?

  4. #4
    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Here is the email I just received from RTC Washoe.....

    Dear Mr. Patenaude,

    Thank you for your inquiries regarding the RTC of Washoe County. In regard to your questions: 1) The RTC of Washoe County is regulated by numerous city, county, state and federal agencies. They include but are not limited to the City of Reno Fire Department, the Washoe County Health District, Nevada OSHA, the Federal Transit Administration and the Transportation Security Administration. 2) The RTC Board of Commissioners allows permitted concealed weapons owners to carry a concealed weapon on the system. All other weapons in plain view are prohibited on the system.


    Email came from Robert Reeder
    Last edited by renoglock22; 09-20-2011 at 01:41 PM. Reason: forgot to put who email was from

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    Here is the email I just received from RTC Washoe.....

    Dear Mr. Patenaude,

    Thank you for your inquiries regarding the RTC of Washoe County. In regard to your questions: 1) The RTC of Washoe County is regulated by numerous city, county, state and federal agencies. They include but are not limited to the City of Reno Fire Department, the Washoe County Health District, Nevada OSHA, the Federal Transit Administration and the Transportation Security Administration. 2) The RTC Board of Commissioners allows permitted concealed weapons owners to carry a concealed weapon on the system. All other weapons in plain view are prohibited on the system.


    Email came from Robert Reeder
    Very interesting letter back to you, Hmmmm makes me wonder one thing, what part of his body did he pull this out of!!!

    Tomorrow when I have time i will be writing a nice long letter to these fine people pointing out a few minor discrepancy's in there Logic, I mean thinking, Well what ever it was they did
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

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  6. #6
    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Letter to RTC Commisioners

    Ok letter is sent both on the website mail, and individually to each commissioner, Lets see what kind of a reply I get

    Greetings to the RTC Commissioners,


    One of the people I know asked a simple question on the RTC Washoe website and got an answer that I don’t feel answered his question and was hoping I could get an answer from you.


    His question was a 2 part question

    1. I was wondering if RTC was regulated by the city/state.

    2. If so I was wondering what RTC's firearm policy


    The answer he got back From Robert Reeder was this:
    Thank you for your inquiries regarding the RTC of Washoe County. In regard to your questions:
    1) The RTC of Washoe County is regulated by numerous city, county, state and federal agencies. They include but are not limited to the City of Reno Fire Department, the Washoe County Health District, Nevada OSHA, the Federal Transit Administration and the Transportation Security Administration.

    2) The RTC Board of Commissioners allows permitted concealed weapons owners to carry a concealed weapon on the system. All other weapons in plain view are prohibited on the system.

    First I don’t see where some of the agencies in that list Regulate what the bus or bus system do or where he got his information from, or he was just trying to confuse the situation or just did not understand the question.

    What the person was asking was, what laws do the RTC and the RTC Commission have to follow?
    As we know the RTC was formed in July 1979 as a result of legislation approved by the Nevada Legislature which means the RTC and RTC commission has to follow State and local laws and set rules according to those laws

    Also on the http://www.co.washoe.nv.us/citizens/boards.html page under the “Regional Transportation Commission Board” heading it states:
    The commission adopts rules and regulations for the organization of the commission and the conduct of its business that are not in conflict with the Motor Vehicle Fuel Tax Ordinance, chapter 373 of the Nevada Revised Statute or any other law of the State of Nevada.(emphases add by me)

    This brings me to his second part of the answer that was given. Mr. Reeder states that “The RTC Board of Commissioners allows permitted concealed weapons owners to carry a concealed weapon on the system. All other weapons in plain view are prohibited on the system.”

    The All other weapons in plain view are prohibited on the system is vague and tends to convey that legally carried firearms in plain sight are not allowed on the buses or in the terminals and is not in compliance with State law Due to the fact that the Nevada State Legislators in 1989 added NRS244.364(county), NRS268.418(cities and towns), and NRS269.222(unincorporated towns) and amended them in 2007 to remove any doubt what they say.


    Here is NRS 244.364 in part:
    NRS 244.364Limited authority to regulate firearms; restrictions concerning registration of certain firearms in county whose population is 400,000 or more.
    1. Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers. As used in this subsection, “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.

    3. A board of county commissioners may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.

    I have searched both NRS and NAC and have found nothing that gives you the ability or the authority to make and set rules to stop people from carrying a legally carried firearm in plain sight either on the buses or in the terminals so please amend your rules so they comply with state law and inform your personal (Drivers and Security especially) of these changes immediately as to avoid any potential problems or Lawsuits.


    Please write back to let me know what your findings are and what is being done about this issue
    Last edited by john-in-reno; 09-21-2011 at 02:24 PM. Reason: formating problem
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

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    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    You would think that they would already know sense they where schooled on the matter down here.

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    RED DRAGONS!!!!

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabotage70 View Post
    You would think that they would already know sense they where schooled on the matter down here.
    You would think that because of the RTC being in the front of both, but the Washoe RTC if a different entity than the LV area RTC.

    it is set up with 5 members, 1 from the Sparks City council, 2 from the Reno City council, and 2 from the Washoe county commissioners so these people need to be trained also!
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

    MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Thank you john-in-reno for sending that letter. That was much more in depth than I would have ever come up with. I did however send Mr. Reeder another email asking which specific NRS his rules were pulled out of just to see if he is blowing smoke. Please keep me updated on the issue because I would really like to ride the bus and test out the laws and hopefully educate some people.

  10. #10
    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    I got a call from Dave Aiazzi who is a Reno city councilmen and sits on the RTC Board, He said he was a little confused as to what I was trying to say in my e-mail

    As we where talking he stated that NRS244.360 was for countys with over 400,000 people, at this point I told him I was busy with something and asked if he would call back in 1 hr, which he did

    When he hung up I started to research how many people where in Washoe county via the US Census and found out there were about 421,000 people here in 2010!

    He called back and we got to talking about this and I mentioned that there where over 400,000 people in Washoe county and then he tells me about a bill that went thru the the Legislature this year that changed it to 700,000, but he could not tell me what bill it was or if it passed.

    He then asked me to show up to the meeting on Wed 9-28 to put public comment in to the RTC which I was going to do but found out this is a Bicycle/Pedestrian meeting so I think I will wait till Friday 9-30 and attend the Board meeting.

    After I got off the phone, I checked the Legislature website and found AB545, and sure enough they changed the 400,000 to 700,000 in NRS244.360, NRS268.418, and NRS269.222. And yes it did pass and is Effective July 1, 2011.

    So I got a little upset and figured that I might not be able to get this changed and we would not be able to ride public transportation and be able to protect ourselves, but then .....

    Read this and tell me what you think, and keep in mind that Washoe county only has about 421,000 people in it (i also changed the 400,000 to 700,000 so it reads like it should from July 1 2011 on):
    NRS 244.364 Limited authority to regulate firearms; restrictions concerning registration of certain firearms in county whose population is 700,000 or more.

    1. Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers. As used in this subsection, “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.

    2. A board of county commissioners may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.

    3. If a board of county commissioners in a county whose population is 700,000 or more has required by ordinance or regulation adopted before June 13, 1989, the registration of a firearm capable of being concealed, the board of county commissioners shall amend such an ordinance or regulation to require:
    (a) A period of at least 60 days of residency in the county before registration of such a firearm is required.
    (b) A period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol by a resident of the county upon transfer of title to the pistol to the resident by purchase, gift or any other transfer.

    4. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 1, as used in this section:

    (a) “Firearm” means any device designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile may be expelled through the barrel by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.
    (b) “Firearm capable of being concealed” includes all firearms having a barrel less than 12 inches in length.
    (c) “Pistol” means a firearm capable of being concealed that is intended to be aimed and fired with one hand.
    (Added to NRS by 1989, 652; A 2007, 1289)
    Tell me if you see what I see!!
    and Yes I am going to the RTC board meeting on the 30th, It starts at 8:30 am, Anybody want to join me?
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

    MOLON LABE

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    John the population is irrelevant except in regards to registration schemes. Locals still can't regulate firearms.

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    The population only matters for gun registration.

    If the RTC is an agency of county government, then they have no authority to restrict the carry of firearms on board buses.

    ...the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada...
    The key words there are possession and transportation.

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Yep, That's what I saw after I looked at it again, and that's what they don't understand but will here soon
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

    MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    8:30 am Friday? I will be there. Where is the meeting at?

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    John the population is irrelevant except in regards to registration schemes. Locals still can't regulate firearms.
    Except... if the local ordinance(s) with respect to firearm regulation (registration excluded) are STILL grandfathered (as some/most) of local governments/agencies here in Nevada believe, then there is and will be a "fight." I think someone here posted that the "up north" local ordinance applicable to what we're talking about here is of 1979 vintage... ergo grandfathered?
    Last edited by usmcmustang; 09-27-2011 at 01:09 PM.

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    8:30 am Friday? I will be there. Where is the meeting at?
    Sorry I probably should have put that info in my last post

    Best Western Airport Plaza
    Conference Center
    1981 Terminal Way, Reno
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

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    There is a whole section of Statutes that govern regional transportation commissions, and none of those statutes grant any RTC in the state the authority to set for themselves any rules regulating the possession, or transportation of firearms. Therefor, if the manner in which you are transporting your firearm is legal, they can no block you from accessing public transportation. Open carry is not illegal in Nevada, therefor you can open carry on RTC buses. I would contact their government affairs office and point them to the state preemption statute.
    Nevada Campus Carry: The Movement Continues
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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    RTC Board Meeting

    I went to the RTC board meeting today and Renoglock22 was also there, we where both open carrying.

    When the time came I went up to the front and spoke to the council and I was nervous about it due to the fact I hate public speaking and here is what I said:
    Good morning to the Regional transportation commissioners


    My name is John Blair, I have been for the past year writing letters to the Reno and Sparks city councils and also to the Washoe county commissioners having to do with gun laws.
    I am here in front of the Region Transportation commission, to let you know that in 1989 the legislators in the state of Nevada repealed all the gun laws and amended it in 2007 to make it clear as to the meaning.

    NRS244.364 subsection 1 states
    Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, (which there are none in NRS277A which is what you operate under) the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers


    Now in saying that you have a rule stating that “Guns are strictly forbidden unless carried by on-duty law enforcement, (the) 4TH STREET STATION and (the) CENTENNIAL PLAZA security officers, or an individual with a valid concealed weapons permit”, and it is not in compliance with State law and needs to be deleted from the rules and inform both your drivers and security as to the rule change.


    I was talking to one of the RTC commissioners on Monday of this week, and he informed me that NRS 244.364 is for counties 400,000 people and over and does not apply to Washoe county because we do not have that many people living here.

    I checked the census and found that Washoe County has 421,000, then he informed me there was a bill that modified that to 700,000 which I did find.

    The thing that this commissioner did not understand and neither did I, until I researched further is that the population only applies to subsection 3 in NRS244.364 which has to do with Registration of a firearm and DOES NOT apply to subsection #1 which I read to you earlier.

    I am asking the commission to delete the rule I mentioned earlier about the gun/firearm, as to avoid any kind of problems for the RTC or the county in the future by not being compliant with the law.

    Thank you for your time and thank you for listening, if you have any questions please ask
    As I was reading this I did notice one of the commissioners writing something down and was also giving me looks like how dare you bring this up!

    Dave Aiazzi was not in attendance, and he was the commissioner that called me on Monday so I sent him an email with the above mentioned comments.

    So lets see what happens now
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

    MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    And here is Dave's response:

    Mr. john-in-reno,
    I did arrive late an didn't hear your comments. I dis just bring up your issue however. I was told that we would have a legal briefing as to our current legal standing at our October or November meeting.
    -Dave

    Sent from my portable telephonic doo-hickey device.
    Current Legal standing???? Sorry they don't have a leg to stand on this one, and I will be at all the meetings until this get resolved
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

    MOLON LABE

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    Thanks for being proactive John.

    Keep us posted about future meetings.

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    [QUOTE=john-in-reno;1620046]And here is Dave's response:
    I will be at all the meetings until this get resolved
    Can you keep us advised as to when and where these meetings will be? I was unable to get to the one on Friday (I was over in the People's Republic) but will go to others if I'm around.

    I would suggest that at each meeting you simply say "At your meeting on September 30, I brought up the issue of RTC's violation of state law regarding open carry of firearms. I have been informed that there would be a legal briefing on the issue. I would like to know what progress has been made to correct RTC policy to conform to state law, and when further progress is to be expected."

    You might also HAND-DELIVER (and get a receipt) information on the Sparks city parks OC correction. This might help them see that they aren't on the side of angels, and show them a face-saving way out.

  23. #23
    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    So I have been thinking about how to go about educating RTC on the law. I was at the board meeting with john and all of the board members seemed busy with food and other things anp were not listening to john at all. My thoughts and strategy come from the civil rights movements. I think we should, as a group or as individuals should perform a sit in on the buses OCing. It worked for Rosa Parks. Yes she was dragged off of the bus but it was a big step in the movement. While going to meetings and reminding the board of the law, as much as they seemed to not care, it could take years. Please tell me if I am being too rash but I think we need to take more action especially when our rights are in question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    Please tell me if I am being too rash but I think we need to take more action especially when our rights are in question.
    I think that you are being too rash.

    Rosa Parks only threatened people's belief systems.

    Men with guns are seen as a more direct threat. We need to live Heinlein's dictum that "An armed society is a polite society."

    Give the bureaucrats time to find out that they haven't got the support they think they have on this issue. Be there at every meeting, don't let them set it aside, and we will win without making anyone feel frightened.

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    I think that you are being too rash.

    Rosa Parks only threatened people's belief systems.

    Men with guns are seen as a more direct threat. We need to live Heinlein's dictum that "An armed society is a polite society."

    Give the bureaucrats time to find out that they haven't got the support they think they have on this issue. Be there at every meeting, don't let them set it aside, and we will win without making anyone feel frightened.

    By going on a bus while OCing is threatening a belief system. It is challenging the belief that only LEO's can carry a gun. I am not saying we should get violent about it but just perform a peaceful sit in and when the police forcefully remove us then we have more to fight with in court. Also, the American Revolution wasn't won by our fore fathers going to the English government and sitting in and mentioning that we would like to be a free state. No, we stood up and said this is how it's gonna be and we will fight for our freedom. We shouldn't stand by and only try to negotiate our rights but we should show them that these ARE our rights and they will not be infringed upon.

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