• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

New to VA

scouser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
sysadmin said:
One more question I thought of...

signs that prohibit the carry of a firearm (CC or OC)....
is there a law stating what kind and size or can it be a hand written piece of scratch paper stuck to a door?

No rules about kind, size, wording, or placement of signs. A sign doesn't even have to exist. On private property the owner of the property can simply tell you verbally that you can't carry, as can employees of a business. If this happens, then just leave, don't cause a scene about there being no sign because there is always the chance that others have visited there hundreds of times while concealing and no one has known. Once the sign is placed then all those other people are going to be S.O.L. if they return
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
No rules about kind, size, wording, or placement of signs. A sign doesn't even have to exist. On private property the owner of the property can simply tell you verbally that you can't carry, as can employees of a business. If this happens, then just leave, don't cause a scene about there being no sign because there is always the chance that others have visited there hundreds of times while concealing and no one has known. Once the sign is placed then all those other people are going to be S.O.L. if they return
There is one important point to make about signs and private property in Virginia.

While there are places that are prohibited by statute, (schools, etc.) it is not a statute violation in Virginia to carry on private property, in and of itself.

This is a little sticky, and obviously I can't give legal advice, but in general terms, Virginia is unlike some other states where violation of the property owner's wishes is actually a crime. Here, once you learn* that you are not welcome, simply leave. There are debates on signs, and fair notice, and blah blah blah, I'll leave it to those with cites at their fingertips to fill in the blanks. Generally speaking, especially if you didn't see a sign, you're fine until someone who has the authority to do so tells you to leave.

And of course once that point is clear, you comply immediately, leaving full carts of groceries or other hopefully expensive merchandise, behind for the next sucker to buy instead of you.

*One final thought... often people are ambiguous about asking you to leave. They might say "sir you can't have that here", or "sir, you need to leave that in your car"... I found one of the best pieces of advice I've heard here is to simply reply with "What are you asking me to do?" That puts them on the line to tell you exactly what they want. If it's to leave, then fine, you know, no ambiguity. If it's some mealy-mouthed rant about feelings, then that's fine too, you can safely ignore those. :)

TFred
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
There is the "1000 foot rule" with schools. Get a lock box, some gun vault or something and unload it when you travel.

If you have a Virginia CHP, this is not necessary. You may carry along a sidewalk next to a school, open or concealed, at your discretion and you will be within the law. And if you are OC'ing you don't need to have your CHP with you regardless of whether or not a school is across the street.

Also if I am not mistaken, no one in our state has been charged with the bogus federal law anyway. But U.S. Code 18,922 spells it out if there are questions.
 

Jonesy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
There is the "1000 foot rule" with schools. Get a lock box, some gun vault or something and unload it when you travel.

Huh???? I do not have a permit, and I do not unload when I travel. How is one supposed to defend himself if it is locked up? I will never cower and lock up my gun because I need to drive.

And that damn gfz fed law is bs, in my neighborhood there is a school with apartments well within 1000 ft, are the people that live there prevented from having a gun in their residence? Should they be arrested for coming out their front door while armed?

Should I be able to walk down the street where the school is while armed in my own neighborhood? Or can the feds take away my RKBA? Maybe I will be the test case. User could become famous.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
There is the "1000 foot rule" with schools. Get a lock box, some gun vault or something and unload it when you travel.

Just so the OP knows, this is a Federal law that is in effect in all states.
Most gun owners consider it unconstitutional and unenforceable and basically thumb our noses at it.

To date, there have been no convictions and to my knowledge, no arrests, for driving or walking past a school with a gun. There was one in Chesterfield under the state guns on school property law, concerning a jogger who was close to school. It was dismissed.

Thinking that one needs to travel with their gun in a locked container or get a permit just to cope with the GFZ, is absurd.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
There is the "1000 foot rule" with schools. Get a lock box, some gun vault or something and unload it when you travel.
The GFSZA is almost literally not possible to comply with if you OC. It makes a Federal Felon out of virtually every OCer who does not hold a permit.

As noted, I don't know of any recent cases of a person being prosecuted for violation of this law alone. It is one of the most egregious laws on the books, IMHO.

TFred
 

ocholsteroc

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
1,317
Location
Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
Thinking that one needs to travel with their gun in a locked container or get a permit just to cope with the GFZ, is absurd.


It's still a law and on the books, I don't want to be the test subject. I agree its total BS, because people live right across from schools and some of them own guns.

From what I know, it makes anyone buying a gun a criminal as well, guns arn't locked when you buy them, I never heard the gun store tell someone you need to lock it when you travel. Some people buying guns don't know about this 1000 foot law.

The law should just be reworded to any felon with a gun within 1000 foot of a school.
 
Last edited:

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
It's still a law and on the books, I don't want to be the test subject. I agree its total BS, because people live right across from schools and some of them own guns.

From what I know, it makes anyone buying a gun a criminal as well, guns arn't locked when you buy them, I never heard the gun store tell someone you need to lock it when you travel. Some people buying guns don't know about this 1000 foot law.

The law should just be reworded to any felon with a gun within 1000 foot of a school.

You need to read U.S. Code 18,922 closely so that you fully understand what the federal law says. It's wording is not exactly correct, no surprise there. In a nut shell, you are safe if you are a resident of Virginia and you have a CHP. The federal statute does not say you must have said license on your person, just that you must have been issued one and of course, no such license or permit is required in Virginia to openly carry your firearm.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
It's still a law and on the books, I don't want to be the test subject. I agree its total BS, because people live right across from schools and some of them own guns.

From what I know, it makes anyone buying a gun a criminal as well, guns arn't locked when you buy them, I never heard the gun store tell someone you need to lock it when you travel. Some people buying guns don't know about this 1000 foot law.

The law should just be reworded to any felon with a gun within 1000 foot of a school.

I understand, I just don't want the Newbies to get the idea Virginians ride around with their guns locked up or get CHP's just to be safe. Most of us don't and just so they know, I don't have a CHP or a gun safe in the car.
 

roscoe13

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,134
Location
Catlett, Virginia, USA
You need to read U.S. Code 18,922 closely so that you fully understand what the federal law says. It's wording is not exactly correct, no surprise there. In a nut shell, you are safe if you are a resident of Virginia and you have a CHP. The federal statute does not say you must have said license on your person, just that you must have been issued one and of course, no such license or permit is required in Virginia to openly carry your firearm.


More correctly, you're OK if you have a CHP issued by the State where the school is. Being a resident doesn't matter.

From U.S. Code 18,922:

if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Roscoe
 
Last edited:

ocholsteroc

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
1,317
Location
Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

So does that make anyone with a VA/FL/UT permit to go into the state, say South Carolina, a criminal when they are near a school? because their permit wasn't issued by that STATE. ??
 

grylnsmn

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
620
Location
Pacific Northwest
Huh???? I do not have a permit, and I do not unload when I travel. How is one supposed to defend himself if it is locked up? I will never cower and lock up my gun because I need to drive.
Then you are technically in violation of 18 USC 922(q)(2)(A). In order to avoid violation, you would need to meet one of the exemptions in 18 USC 922(q)(2)(B), such as (iii) which requires it to be unloaded and locked.

And that damn gfz fed law is bs, in my neighborhood there is a school with apartments well within 1000 ft, are the people that live there prevented from having a gun in their residence? Should they be arrested for coming out their front door while armed?
As long as they remain on private property, they meet the exemption listed in 18 USC 922(q)(2)(B)(i).

According to the survey for my house when I bought it, my property line continues to the middle of the street, with an easement for the road. On that basis, I wouldn't have a problem parking my car on the street and moving my firearms to/from it. (There is an elementary school at the end of our cul-de-sac.) I would also not have a problem waking on the sidewalks on my street without a permit (although I do have one), because they are all private property with an easement for the sidewalk.

What could cause problems in my case is that according to the county tax maps, the school property actually includes the sidewalk (and a small slice of the cul-de-sac) at the end of the street. If I were to take our dog for a walk around the cul-de-sac while armed, I would technically be in violation of Virginia laws against firearms on school property, even with a permit.
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
said:
.

Thinking that one needs to travel with their gun in a locked container or get a permit just to cope with the GFZ, is absurd.

1+



said:
I don't want the Newbies to get the idea Virginians ride around with their guns locked up or get CHP's just to be safe.

1+
No VA permit for me and I drive onto school property daily during the school yr.


IIRC, the first case came about because of CA.
The only folks ever charged with violating the FGFSZ were committing other crimes (drug charges, RICO, gang activity).
Again iirc, there was a pizza delivery guy that used his firearm to defend himself at a delivery that was across the street from a school (no charges) and the bike rider (oc'er) that was jumped at night by teens, he screamed gun (they didn't know he was carrying) and the teens scattered, LEO drove him home without incident.

Than there was a guy that walked his kids to school in FFX (2005-2007) & PWC (2007-2009) while OC'ing without incident.


The local/state LE know this law is BS so the don't bother folks with it.
Heck, there are gun stores in FGFSZ, fed prisons would be over run with legal gun owners/carriers if this law wasn't BS.




Before anyone states I'm (advocating and/or) breaking the law that person would need to research VA law to know I'm not. :p
 
Last edited:

Jonesy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by ocholsteroc
So does that make anyone with a VA/FL/UT permit to go into the state, say South Carolina, a criminal when they are near a school? because their permit wasn't issued by that STATE. ??


Is someone who commits acts that may technically be in violation of a law a criminal if they are not arrested, charged and convicted? I don't think so.

Another interesting thought, if a law is unconstitutional, which many, many people believe this one is, should I or others go out of our way to comply with such? This law is virtually impossible to comply with if you drive and carry without a permit. If they wanna charge me with violation of this, I would be happy to be the test case. Thing is, I think the feds would never let this get to even the district court level in the federal system.
 
Last edited:

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Another interesting thought, if a law is unconstitutional, which many, many people believe this one is, should I or others go out of our way to comply with such? This law is virtually impossible to comply with if you drive and carry without a permit.

I see a light
AT LAST!

images
 
Last edited:
Top