Ruger
Regular Member
Gentlemen, my apologies for not sharing this earlier. I kept on putting it off (I don't know why), and every time I thought of it happened to be when I was browsing the forum on my smartphone - I don't mind a small post via Tapatalk, but I wasn't about to tap this out on a phone. Without further adieu:
Back in April I had my first negative encounter with law enforcement. I was shopping in my local Food Lion (W. Wendover Avenue, High Point, NC - near the Palladium Cinema for those who are familiar with the area). Prior to this encounter I had been in the habit of OC'ing in this particular Food Lion anywhere from 1-3 times a week for a little over a year without even the slightest problem.
I was in the frozen foods section, having just placed the final item on my shopping list into my now very full shopping cart when I looked up and saw 2 High Point police officers at the end of the aisle. They were both looking directly at me & they had their hands resting (fingers forward) on the top of their holstered handguns, in such a manner so that it would be very easy to slip their hands back a tad & draw if they felt the need (this is easier to demonstrate than to describe). They immediately took control of the situation by asking in an authoritative manner "Why are you carrying a firearm?" That day I was carrying my Kimber Tactical Custom II in a Serpa. I gave them the basic answer of personal protection against a potential threat, and I asked them if there was a problem. Apparently I was "scaring" people. I told them about how I found that to be puzzling & shared with them about how often & for how long I have been OC'ing in this particular store without incident. Officer 1 tells me that customers (plural) complained to management, and then management called them. All the while, Officer 2 (I swear, guys, I SO want to refer to these guys as Tweedledum & Tweedledee) is hanging back a few feet looking like he's ready to draw on me at a moment's notice. They start telling me about how I should get a permit & conceal it. This opened up another can of worms...
Upon informing the officers that I do indeed have a NC CHP, however I still choose to OC sometimes, Officer 1 looked like he was going to crap a brick. He demanded to see my CHP immediately, and told me that I was in violation of the law for not telling them that I had it earlier. He said that "As soon as you saw me, the first words out of your mouth should have been 'Officer, I have a concealed handgun permit' ". [Pause the story for just a minute here. I am aware of the need to notify in the event that I was having an official interaction with an officer while concealing, and likewise the need to notify in a traffic stop. Unless I was mistaken, I didn't think I had to notify in that exact situation as it was not a traffic stop, and more importantly, I was not carrying a concealed handgun. In fact, as the first words out of Officer 1's mouth were in reference to the handgun that he could see plain as day on my hip, I didn't think that it was necessary as a legal matter or as a matter of practicality to inform him of my CHP]. I told him that I did not think it was necessary to provide my CHP to him as this isn't a traffic stop and I am not carrying a concealed handgun. Officer 1 continues to tell me that he could confiscate my CHP right there on the spot due to my "violation" (failing to inform him that I am a CHP-holder). I get out the CHP, and this is the first time that any form of ID is given to them. Officer 1 hands it to Officer 2, who steps back again & starts radioing in while looking at my CHP, presumably to check its validity (???). Officer 1 continues to lecture me about how the CHP is a privilege, and there is a reason why they are issued, and since I spent the money to take the class & get the permit, I should just cover up so as to not scare people. Officer 2 hands my permit back to me, and they basically acted like they were doing me a favor by "allowing" me to continue to keep it. All the while, I'm thinking (but definitely not saying) how stupid it would be to confiscate it, seeing as the action they wish for me to stop is OC'ing, and by confiscating the CHP they would be forcing me to do nothing but OC whenever I carry a firearm.
Of course, they also attempted to enlighten me about this law called "Going Armed to the Terror of the People", and I quickly realized that I knew more about it than either of the two officers who were trying in vain to instruct me on it. Despite their warning (threat?) that if they get multiple MWAG calls about me I would be arrested for GATTOP, I informed them that it is doubtful that the DA would press charges on that, as in order to get a conviction they would have to prove intent, and I didn't think that filling my shopping cart with a 1911 on my hip would qualify as intent to cause terror. Also, I instructed them that NC case law has stated that the mere carrying of a properly holstered handgun does not constitute intent to cause terror. At this point, another shopper happened upon our little pow-wow & correctly ascertained the nature of the problem. He butted-in & asked in the officers why they were bothering me simply for carrying a handgun. He even told them that it is my right according to the Constitution! Officer 1 didn't like this, and began to lecture Mr. Shopper about how the Second Amendment is grossly misinterpreted today, and how it is for "militias" only, and shouldn't really empower john q citizen to be able to carry weapons. Seeing as I wasn't carrying a recorder, and Officer 1 was fully engaged with Mr. Shopper debating the original intent of the writers of the Constitution, AND seeing as it didn't look like I was going to be arrested (or shot ) I asked Officer 2 if I was free to go, and gave him lip-service when he asked me to conceal in the future. I took my groceries & checked out. I noticed a few minutes later that as I was loading my trunk with my newly purchased groceries, the two officers were watching me from a distance [insert warm fuzzy feelings here].
Two days later, I returned to the store, concealing this time, and also carrying my new voice recorder. The first conversation recorded on it was between me & the manager who was on duty two nights prior. In summary, despite my frequency of shopping at this store, she personally had not noticed my & my gun before. She said she didn't personally have a problem with it or with me, but she did have customers come up to the customer service desk to express their concern. Not knowing the laws regarding OC, she called the police "To inquire as to whether or not this was legal". She was informed by whoever answered the phone that open carry is indeed legal, and the operator/dispatcher asked if the manager wanted officers to be sent on site. The manager told me that she said that is not necessary, but the officers were dispatched anyway. Aixa (the CSM) told me that after the officers were finished with me, they checked in with her, and were "quite rude" toward her. They expressed irritation at what they perceived to be a waste of their time, and told her that if she has a problem then she should call Food Lion corporate & tell them that she wants some "No Firearms" stickers for the doors. In a nutshell, I was reassured by Aixa that she had notified the other managers & employees that if they see me (or anyone else) with a properly holstered handgun on their person, that that is NOT reason enough to call the police. (I guess something good DID come out of this) and that me & my money were still welcome in her store. Obviously she can't control it if some Janet Napolitano worshipping, mouth-breathing knuckle-dragger decides to take it upon themselves to say something when they see something & rat me out, but the call wouldn't come from Food Lion.
Pardon the pun, but I'll admit I've felt somewhat gun-shy about OC'ing in the months since this incident. No matter how you think you're going to respond, its never the same thing as when you are actually accosted by the law. I have started carrying a voice recorder on the occasions when I do OC, and I am slowly increasing my frequency of OC'ing once again. I guess I'm a little paranoid that I'll run into those same two cops whenever I OC in High Point. Also, as part of my easing back into things, lately the majority of my OC'ing has been when I'm with my wife & 2-year-old. The few times I've OC'd alone since that day in April I've been trying to keep it to short trips in & out of wherever it is I'm going, that way if someone does decide to snitch on me the chances are that I'll be gone by the time anyone with a badge shows-up. I've noticed fewer negative reactions from strangers when I have my little girl with me when I'm OC'ing. If I'm with my family, I guess I'm ok, but if I'm out OC'ing alone, then I must be the proverbial "lone gunman" that folks should be worried about. I am getting back into it, but just slowly.
On a completely separate note, today I was driving from Yanceyville back to Greensboro, and there were 2 State Troopers parked on the side of the road conducting a license check on Hwy 150 (in the middle of the day, too, strangely). I informed the trooper that in accordance with state law, I must inform him that I have a CHP & that I'm carrying 2 handguns). He didn't bat an eye at it. Just said "Ok, thanks - stay safe!" as he handed my driver's license back to me. It was nice to have THAT interaction go as it should!
Back in April I had my first negative encounter with law enforcement. I was shopping in my local Food Lion (W. Wendover Avenue, High Point, NC - near the Palladium Cinema for those who are familiar with the area). Prior to this encounter I had been in the habit of OC'ing in this particular Food Lion anywhere from 1-3 times a week for a little over a year without even the slightest problem.
I was in the frozen foods section, having just placed the final item on my shopping list into my now very full shopping cart when I looked up and saw 2 High Point police officers at the end of the aisle. They were both looking directly at me & they had their hands resting (fingers forward) on the top of their holstered handguns, in such a manner so that it would be very easy to slip their hands back a tad & draw if they felt the need (this is easier to demonstrate than to describe). They immediately took control of the situation by asking in an authoritative manner "Why are you carrying a firearm?" That day I was carrying my Kimber Tactical Custom II in a Serpa. I gave them the basic answer of personal protection against a potential threat, and I asked them if there was a problem. Apparently I was "scaring" people. I told them about how I found that to be puzzling & shared with them about how often & for how long I have been OC'ing in this particular store without incident. Officer 1 tells me that customers (plural) complained to management, and then management called them. All the while, Officer 2 (I swear, guys, I SO want to refer to these guys as Tweedledum & Tweedledee) is hanging back a few feet looking like he's ready to draw on me at a moment's notice. They start telling me about how I should get a permit & conceal it. This opened up another can of worms...
Upon informing the officers that I do indeed have a NC CHP, however I still choose to OC sometimes, Officer 1 looked like he was going to crap a brick. He demanded to see my CHP immediately, and told me that I was in violation of the law for not telling them that I had it earlier. He said that "As soon as you saw me, the first words out of your mouth should have been 'Officer, I have a concealed handgun permit' ". [Pause the story for just a minute here. I am aware of the need to notify in the event that I was having an official interaction with an officer while concealing, and likewise the need to notify in a traffic stop. Unless I was mistaken, I didn't think I had to notify in that exact situation as it was not a traffic stop, and more importantly, I was not carrying a concealed handgun. In fact, as the first words out of Officer 1's mouth were in reference to the handgun that he could see plain as day on my hip, I didn't think that it was necessary as a legal matter or as a matter of practicality to inform him of my CHP]. I told him that I did not think it was necessary to provide my CHP to him as this isn't a traffic stop and I am not carrying a concealed handgun. Officer 1 continues to tell me that he could confiscate my CHP right there on the spot due to my "violation" (failing to inform him that I am a CHP-holder). I get out the CHP, and this is the first time that any form of ID is given to them. Officer 1 hands it to Officer 2, who steps back again & starts radioing in while looking at my CHP, presumably to check its validity (???). Officer 1 continues to lecture me about how the CHP is a privilege, and there is a reason why they are issued, and since I spent the money to take the class & get the permit, I should just cover up so as to not scare people. Officer 2 hands my permit back to me, and they basically acted like they were doing me a favor by "allowing" me to continue to keep it. All the while, I'm thinking (but definitely not saying) how stupid it would be to confiscate it, seeing as the action they wish for me to stop is OC'ing, and by confiscating the CHP they would be forcing me to do nothing but OC whenever I carry a firearm.
Of course, they also attempted to enlighten me about this law called "Going Armed to the Terror of the People", and I quickly realized that I knew more about it than either of the two officers who were trying in vain to instruct me on it. Despite their warning (threat?) that if they get multiple MWAG calls about me I would be arrested for GATTOP, I informed them that it is doubtful that the DA would press charges on that, as in order to get a conviction they would have to prove intent, and I didn't think that filling my shopping cart with a 1911 on my hip would qualify as intent to cause terror. Also, I instructed them that NC case law has stated that the mere carrying of a properly holstered handgun does not constitute intent to cause terror. At this point, another shopper happened upon our little pow-wow & correctly ascertained the nature of the problem. He butted-in & asked in the officers why they were bothering me simply for carrying a handgun. He even told them that it is my right according to the Constitution! Officer 1 didn't like this, and began to lecture Mr. Shopper about how the Second Amendment is grossly misinterpreted today, and how it is for "militias" only, and shouldn't really empower john q citizen to be able to carry weapons. Seeing as I wasn't carrying a recorder, and Officer 1 was fully engaged with Mr. Shopper debating the original intent of the writers of the Constitution, AND seeing as it didn't look like I was going to be arrested (or shot ) I asked Officer 2 if I was free to go, and gave him lip-service when he asked me to conceal in the future. I took my groceries & checked out. I noticed a few minutes later that as I was loading my trunk with my newly purchased groceries, the two officers were watching me from a distance [insert warm fuzzy feelings here].
Two days later, I returned to the store, concealing this time, and also carrying my new voice recorder. The first conversation recorded on it was between me & the manager who was on duty two nights prior. In summary, despite my frequency of shopping at this store, she personally had not noticed my & my gun before. She said she didn't personally have a problem with it or with me, but she did have customers come up to the customer service desk to express their concern. Not knowing the laws regarding OC, she called the police "To inquire as to whether or not this was legal". She was informed by whoever answered the phone that open carry is indeed legal, and the operator/dispatcher asked if the manager wanted officers to be sent on site. The manager told me that she said that is not necessary, but the officers were dispatched anyway. Aixa (the CSM) told me that after the officers were finished with me, they checked in with her, and were "quite rude" toward her. They expressed irritation at what they perceived to be a waste of their time, and told her that if she has a problem then she should call Food Lion corporate & tell them that she wants some "No Firearms" stickers for the doors. In a nutshell, I was reassured by Aixa that she had notified the other managers & employees that if they see me (or anyone else) with a properly holstered handgun on their person, that that is NOT reason enough to call the police. (I guess something good DID come out of this) and that me & my money were still welcome in her store. Obviously she can't control it if some Janet Napolitano worshipping, mouth-breathing knuckle-dragger decides to take it upon themselves to say something when they see something & rat me out, but the call wouldn't come from Food Lion.
Pardon the pun, but I'll admit I've felt somewhat gun-shy about OC'ing in the months since this incident. No matter how you think you're going to respond, its never the same thing as when you are actually accosted by the law. I have started carrying a voice recorder on the occasions when I do OC, and I am slowly increasing my frequency of OC'ing once again. I guess I'm a little paranoid that I'll run into those same two cops whenever I OC in High Point. Also, as part of my easing back into things, lately the majority of my OC'ing has been when I'm with my wife & 2-year-old. The few times I've OC'd alone since that day in April I've been trying to keep it to short trips in & out of wherever it is I'm going, that way if someone does decide to snitch on me the chances are that I'll be gone by the time anyone with a badge shows-up. I've noticed fewer negative reactions from strangers when I have my little girl with me when I'm OC'ing. If I'm with my family, I guess I'm ok, but if I'm out OC'ing alone, then I must be the proverbial "lone gunman" that folks should be worried about. I am getting back into it, but just slowly.
On a completely separate note, today I was driving from Yanceyville back to Greensboro, and there were 2 State Troopers parked on the side of the road conducting a license check on Hwy 150 (in the middle of the day, too, strangely). I informed the trooper that in accordance with state law, I must inform him that I have a CHP & that I'm carrying 2 handguns). He didn't bat an eye at it. Just said "Ok, thanks - stay safe!" as he handed my driver's license back to me. It was nice to have THAT interaction go as it should!