Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Weapons in Casinos

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490

    Weapons in Casinos

    I have made a document to try to help explain the law regarding guns in casinos. I have made it to the best of my knowledge and understanding of the confusion about guns in casinos but figured I'd put it on here before I used it as a way to show and explain to people. If I am incorrect please tell me so I can make the proper changes. Here is what I came up with:

    As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.

    “28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
    (c) A sports arena or stadium.
    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.”

    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act. The board made this administrative rule:

    “R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.”

    Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This would be incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and created the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under this act, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.
    ETA: I forgot I posted this as it has been a while. A little while ago on MGO a similar question to this was brought up. There may be some argument to support that this could extend to all casinos in MI. As such I consider it to be a bit of a gray area. Proceed with caution. I am also not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Just research I have done based on the laws presented.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 07-26-2013 at 01:56 AM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Just a formatting suggestion...white space is your friend.

    Put some spacing between the sub-sections, it will make the document physically larger but much more readable.

    It may also be a good idea to include the Michigan Gaming Control Act's definitions of a "casino" versus a "casino enterprise" to show that a casino is considered to be the gaming area proper and not the entire facility, i.e., hotel, parking lots, etc.

    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 09-20-2011 at 02:41 PM.
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  3. #3
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Just a formatting suggestion...white space is your friend.

    Put some spacing between the sub-sections, it will make the document physically larger but much more readable.

    It may also be a good idea to include the Michigan Gaming Control Act's definitions of a "casino" versus a "casino enterprise" to show that a casino is considered to be the gaming area proper and not the entire facility, i.e., hotel, parking lots, etc.

    Bronson
    Thanks Bronson.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  4. #4
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    This is my current version:


    As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.


    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.




    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.







    The MGCRA give definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”



    Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This is incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee/regulate those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under the MGCRA, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.


    It looks a little better in my word document.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    This is my current version:


    As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.


    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.




    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.







    The MGCRA give definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”



    Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This is incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee/regulate those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under the MGCRA, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.


    It looks a little better in my word document.
    Just a suggestion, but consider cutting section 5o to that part only listing "casinos"... just makes it easier to follow by eliminating unnecessary information. I would also add a disclaimer that NA casinos, as private property, may restrict firearms. They are not covered by preemption and may decide that any person may not carry on the premises. Violating their rule may cause a person to he charged with trespassing. Perhaps just saying that NA casinos are to be treated as any other private property. Otherwise, it appears you have explained the issue quite well... good idea regarding a set statement explaining this.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-20-2011 at 08:15 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.


    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.




    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.







    The MGCRA gives definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”



    Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This is incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee/regulate those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under the MGCRA, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.


    Native American casinos, just like private property, are not covered under state preemption, and may restrict the carry or possession of firearms in the casino or on their premises (including parking lots). Violating their rule may cause a person to be charged with trespassing.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    It does mention them, but states you can't violate the gaming laws that already prohibit firearms.

    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.


    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.




    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.







    The MGCRA gives definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”



    Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This is incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee/regulate those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under the MGCRA, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.


    Native American casinos, just like private property, are not covered under state preemption, and may restrict the carry or possession of firearms in the casino or on their premises (including parking lots). Violating their rule may cause a person to be charged with trespassing.
    Looks like you covered it pretty well; I just hope people read it.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.


    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.




    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.







    The MGCRA gives definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”



    Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This is incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee/regulate those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under the MGCRA, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.


    Native American casinos, just like private property, are not covered under state preemption, and may restrict the carry or possession of firearms in the casino or on their premises (including parking lots). Violating their rule may cause a person to be charged with trespassing.
    Looks like you covered it pretty well; I just hope people read it.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Looks like you covered it pretty well; I just hope people read it.
    Thank you.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Police State, USA
    Posts
    1,270
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I would also add a disclaimer that NA casinos, as private property, may restrict firearms. They are not covered by preemption and may decide that any person may not carry on the premises. Violating their rule may cause a person to he charged with trespassing. Perhaps just saying that NA casinos are to be treated as any other private property. Otherwise, it appears you have explained the issue quite well... good idea regarding a set statement explaining this.
    Edited because I'm f-ing wrong.
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 09-26-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: I'm f-ing wrong

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Additionally, if the NA casino is on reservation land, they can not only make and enforce their own rules but also their own laws, enforceable by their own police, and punishable by time in their own penal institutions.
    Ah, hate to rain on your parade, but you are wrong. NA police have no jurisdiction to enforce NA law against non-natives. They do have the power to enforce state law against non-natives, and can do this ONLY if they are "cross-deputized" by the local sheriff or other Michigan Law enforcement agency. Not all of them are. The only thing they could probably do, if they are cross-deputized, is cite for trespassing if you refused to leave, much as any state or local police officer could do after a private person asks you to leave. In Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe,the Supreme Court negated tribal jurisdiction over non-Indian defendants who commit crimes in Indian country. Cite: http://goo.gl/EY66M

    (However, I may be able to be cited by them, because I MAY be considered a "native american" through my membership in a Canadian tribe; my mother was aboriginal Canadian. This MAY also apply to members of US tribes that are not members of the tribe to which the casino belongs. But for all of you non-native readers, they have no jurisdiction as noted above.)
    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-26-2011 at 05:32 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Police State, USA
    Posts
    1,270
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Ah, hate to rain on your parade, but you are wrong. NA police have no jurisdiction to enforce NA law against non-natives. They do have the power to enforce state law against non-natives, and can do this ONLY if they are "cross-deputized" by the local sheriff or other Michigan Law enforcement agency. Not all of them are. The only thing they could probably do, if they are cross-deputized, is cite for trespassing if you refused to leave, much as any state or local police officer could do after a private person asks you to leave. In Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe,the Supreme Court negated tribal jurisdiction over non-Indian defendants who commit crimes in Indian country. Cite: http://goo.gl/EY66M
    I stand corrected, my friend, and gladly so.

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    I stand corrected, my friend, and gladly so.
    No problem... I used to think the same thing. Except, I learned by experience. It is so much better to learn by SOMEONE ELSE'S experience.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  15. #15
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    necro-bump:

    I got a little confused over on MGO and want some clarification. The post on MGO is here - http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...3&postcount=30

    Quote Originally Posted by shurhouse
    For your reading enjoyment: Note, as seen in part (3), parking lots are not considered part of the premises in locations that are listed in part (1), but casinos are not listed in part (1) they are referred to in part (2), hence casinos are not covered by the wording in part (3).


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.


    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:


    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
    (c) A sports arena or stadium.
    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of
    worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public
    entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.


    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.


    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).



    Reading that post/thread I was under the impression that Casino parking lots are not exempt, but the bolded part below leads me to believe that it is fine to lock your pistol in your car in the casino parking lot. Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    .....

    The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.




    The MGCRA gives definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”


    .........
    Last edited by fozzy71; 08-17-2013 at 11:23 PM.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  16. #16
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    necro-bump:

    I got a little confused over on MGO and want some clarification. The post on MGO is here - http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...3&postcount=30






    Reading that post/thread I was under the impression that Casino parking lots are not exempt, but the bolded part below leads me to believe that it is fine to lock your pistol in your car in the casino parking lot. Is that correct?
    Based on the research I conducted, 28.425o. does not list casino parking lots as being specifically exempt. However, based on the definition of a casino that I posted, I would say that parking lots are okay. This is just my opinion and I am not a lawyer. Do so with caution. Personally I would not be worried about being in violation of that law/rule.

    ETA: I agree with Zig. http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...65&postcount=9
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 08-18-2013 at 09:25 AM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  17. #17
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    ty for finding that post by zig. I feel better knowing he says it is OK.
    Last edited by fozzy71; 09-05-2013 at 08:14 PM.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  18. #18
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Weapons in Casinos

    Remember that this only applies to the three casinos in Detroit. Native American casinos are sovereign and can make their own laws regarding carry on their land. Which means parking lot laws the state makes have no bearing.


    Stay informed about MOC events in your area http://miopencarry.org/updates
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Remember that this only applies to the three casinos in Detroit. Native American casinos are sovereign and can make their own laws regarding carry on their land. Which means parking lot laws the state makes have no bearing.


    Stay informed about MOC events in your area http://miopencarry.org/updates
    subject to their agreements with the state, mind you.

    http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,1607,...182---,00.html

  20. #20
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    Anyone know if any of the 3 D casinos allow you to valet your car, lockbox your gun with their security unloaded, and then let you load up again on your way out so you dont have to walk to and from your car in general parking unarmed with a pocket full of cash and risk your car being broken in to and gun stolen?
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  21. #21
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houghton County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    808
    Simple solution to the casino problem. Everyone send your money to me, and I'll send someone a portion of it back. I won't even ask you to disarm while doing so
    Rand Paul 2016

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Re: Weapons in Casinos

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    Simple solution to the casino problem. Everyone send your money to me, and I'll send someone a portion of it back. I won't even ask you to disarm while doing so
    lol.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •