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Thread: Hey guys, what's going on in this thread....

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Hey guys, what's going on in this thread....

    This is my handout to LEOs any time I am detained and the firearm issue is involved.

    I split the document into two pages, since no action has been taken regarding the absurdly small upload size limit.

    I align them back to back, fold up a corner, use glue stick, lay back down. Fold up the rest, glue stick, lay back down. Perfect. Get laminated.

    The .pdf doesn't look so nice. I also included the .doc
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by ixtow; 10-16-2011 at 12:07 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  2. #2
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Sounds reasonable to me.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Can you set it up as a .pdf and then post it as an attachment? Or use a link to some place where you have it stored as a text document of some sort?

    Because cutting and pasting two pages of stuff is going to require way too many individual posts to be anything except anoying.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack
    Last edited by Schlitz; 09-24-2011 at 03:12 AM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Last edited by Schlitz; 09-26-2011 at 06:35 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I dunno what got moderated... I fail to see how anyone could have a problem with this.

    I tried .pdf, .doc, .rtf, and .odt. All are limited to such small sizes that I cannot upload it. I don't have it on any site or server... I agree this is annoying, but it's the art of the possible...

    5k more and it'd work.
    Last edited by ixtow; 10-05-2011 at 12:30 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Unfortunately some LEOs are going to get angry reading this. Uh, look at the education requirements, and that some people with too high IQs were rejected by departments. Yes good LE is a matter of being street smart - not sure how to get that. Some LEOs might be impressed favorably, but how do you encounter them?

    The higher ups do not empower their rank and file, do not give them educational opportunities and treat them like dirt many times. It's no wonder they get testy with curb-side lawyer wanna-bees.

    No LEO is going to read that during a traffic stop. They MIGHT glance at it if you are stopped on foot. Maybe you could use it as a reminder of what statutes to cite and verbally transmit it?

    The content seems good, with statute numbers and stuff, but the opening line is pretty confrontational - remember he has a gun and might have just been pissed off by the guy he stopped prior to you. They are only human.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I dunno what got moderated... I fail to see how anyone could have a problem with this.

    I tried .pdf, .doc, .rtf, and .odt. All are limited to such small sizes that I cannot upload it. I don't have it on any site or server... I agree this is annoying, but it's the art of the possible...

    5k more and it'd work.
    I copy pasted an exact quote from skidmark and changed the wording to match up with a .pdf application. Skidmark was offended by his own words when thrown back his way and reported it to a moderator. To make light of the situation I posted a picture of skidmark's profile and pointed out that he "has no friends." Nothing said was within the realm of "personal attack" in the forum rules and skidmark's "personal attack" remains untouched by moderators. Due to this, I can only assume that he receives special treatment on these boards. Apparently in today's society very few people have thick skin.

    Whatev's


    EDIT: oh yeah, THIS.
    The content seems good, with statute numbers and stuff, but the opening line is pretty confrontational - remember he has a gun and might have just been pissed off by the guy he stopped prior to you. They are only human.
    You kind of step of with the wrong foot using that first line. You may just meet a cop who is all for people carrying, but as soon as he reads that he is going to go on the defense.
    Last edited by Schlitz; 10-07-2011 at 04:45 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I considered the first line carefully. I figured an LEO might wonder why I am handing him a laminated 8.5x11. The first line explains why. It isn't meant to be confrontational, but I can't please everyone... If a cop wants to have a chip on his shoulder, it won't matter, will it?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Skid has been through some hell and I respect him for staying the course. But I don't think the forum rules should be bent for him...

    There is a lot of double-standard applied in the moderation here. I've experienced it on more than one occasion; not inclusive of those times when I knowingly broke the rules to drive the point...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Unfortunately some LEOs are going to get angry reading this. Uh, look at the education requirements, and that some people with too high IQs were rejected by departments. Yes good LE is a matter of being street smart - not sure how to get that. Some LEOs might be impressed favorably, but how do you encounter them?

    The higher ups do not empower their rank and file, do not give them educational opportunities and treat them like dirt many times. It's no wonder they get testy with curb-side lawyer wanna-bees.

    No LEO is going to read that during a traffic stop. They MIGHT glance at it if you are stopped on foot. Maybe you could use it as a reminder of what statutes to cite and verbally transmit it?

    The content seems good, with statute numbers and stuff, but the opening line is pretty confrontational - remember he has a gun and might have just been pissed off by the guy he stopped prior to you. They are only human.
    It's possible. The purpose is that I don't want to get into a verbal argument about what the LEO doesn't know. If he wants to be an Opinion Enforcement Officer, then HE made that choice when he put on the uniform. Nothing I do or say will change that.

    If he's got a pre-existing bad attitude, is a bully, etc... and refuses to read it, his loss. I didn't make him into a dick...

    I've been more than accommodating and given up my rights more times than I want to admit. I've spent hours arguing with dumbass cops that refused to do any research. It's pointless. I'm not going to force-feed them if they are going to argue about it. And for exactly the reasons you've mentioned. He is a grumpy dick and he has a gun and the power to lie about anything he wants to and get away with it. I'm trying to be helpful. If he doesn't want my help, fine.

    I'm not doing it anymore. I'm handing him this:

    If he gets an attitude; "I have nothing to say, why am I being detained?"

    If he receives it well, awesome!

    As with all my tactics, I'm designing this so that decent Cops won't have anything to worry about, and the dicks can walk into a sh!tstorm if they so choose. You can't 'bait' a decent cop, because a decent cop isn't interested in being a dick to begin with.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Unfortunately some LEOs are going to get angry reading this.
    Some LEOs are going to get mad no matter what. Some LEOs are already mad. Some LEOs got into the job specifically because they're mad and want to take it out everyone they meet and get away with it...

    I find many states, not just Florida, have had a policy of hiring specifically this kind of person for the job. They hand-pick the dumb and disturbed, because people like that further a Police State agenda without having to be told to do it. They'll take any excuse to abuse another human being, and want the security of knowing they can get away with it. I have more respect for the common thug, because the common thug is at least brave enough to take a risk. Cops like this are too cowardly to put anything on the line, they strike from the comfort of their diapers and security blanket.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Some LEOs are going to get mad no matter what. Some LEOs are already mad. Some LEOs got into the job specifically because they're mad and want to take it out everyone they meet and get away with it...

    I find many states, not just Florida, have had a policy of hiring specifically this kind of person for the job. They hand-pick the dumb and disturbed, because people like that further a Police State agenda without having to be told to do it. They'll take any excuse to abuse another human being, and want the security of knowing they can get away with it. I have more respect for the common thug, because the common thug is at least brave enough to take a risk. Cops like this are too cowardly to put anything on the line, they strike from the comfort of their diapers and security blanket.
    +1

    I wish Missouri had some sort of unified rule on open carry so that I could put together something like this, but nooo! Missouri has to let every locality place thair own rules on open carry and not be forced to post said rules anywhere but in some hard to obtain city code book where not even the mayor nor secretary known where the firearms codes are.
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
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  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Updated, it now has .pdf and .doc
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    All,

    I was trying to stay out of this thread but I figured I may as well add my 2 cents worth for people to at least consider.

    If you were a copper (I can call them that as that's what we called ourselves way back when) and somebody that you had just stopped, for whatever reason, hands you a pamphlet or sheet of paper and says "read this", I'd think I had somebody who really should be "monitored" a bit more closely.

    First off, an LEO is NOT going to read that paper as it means he's going to have to take his eyes off of you to do so. Never a good thing on an initial stop.

    Why not wait and see just what the stop is for?

    If the conversation gets around to YOU and your weapon, then you can recite the relevant statutes as needed, in a polite and civil manner.

    Being confrontational is not going to work, especially if you've run into a jerk. (Yes, they're out there, no doubt about it).

    I been pulled over three times now while open carrying and all three times I came away with a "thank you, drive safely" exit from the stop.

    Two of the stops had the officer knowing the statutes and wanted to make sure that was WHY I was open carrying as I was in normal civilian traffic and not at a fishing hole! The third one was aware of the fishing, hunting statute but not the "shooting range" paragraph that was further down the page.

    All three stops were NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. I never said "Hey, you can't stop me!" or anything like that.

    We're the stops "illegal" or not warranted? It's a tough call. You and I know the law, but when you look at it from the officer's side, he sees a guy with an openly carried gun and is "curious" about this in a strictly urban environment. Heck, I'd take the time to at least find out what the story is, if not for anything more than curiousity and my own edification!

    Here's the amazing thing about this so far. None of the three stops had me produce any kind of identification! Evidently calling in the license plate was sufficient to satisfy whatever it is they were stopping me for.

    So, let's try to think about WHY you're about to hand that laminated sheet to the officer. How about not doing it and just ask, "What's going on?" and take it from there.

    The information on the sheets is correct and informative, but I don't think handing it out as the first line of defense in a stop is a good tactic.

    With that said, this is only my own opinion. I still feel that handing reading material to the LEO who has just stopped you might be counter-productive to the intended result.

    I open carry daily in my normal routine all around a three county area as I fish and shoot almost daily. I find it much more comfortable than IWB carry and can always throw on a light "cover garment" should I find the need to deviate from going to and from these activities.

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  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    All,

    I was trying to stay out of this thread but I figured I may as well add my 2 cents worth for people to at least consider.
    I don't own this thread, why stay out of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    If you were a copper (I can call them that as that's what we called ourselves way back when) and somebody that you had just stopped, for whatever reason, hands you a pamphlet or sheet of paper and says "read this", I'd think I had somebody who really should be "monitored" a bit more closely.
    Knowing the law makes a person deserving of 'monitoring?'
    Knowing the Bill of Rights makes a person deserving of 'monitoring?'
    Having the courtesy of informing an officer that he has a chance to rise above the pack be not being a dick is deserving of 'monitoring?'
    Having the courtesy to provide an officer with material he might not be aware of is deserving of 'monitoring?'

    Please do explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    First off, an LEO is NOT going to read that paper as it means he's going to have to take his eyes off of you to do so. Never a good thing on an initial stop.
    Does anything in this thread or document say that the officer will be forced to read it whether he wants to or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Why not wait and see just what the stop is for?
    Did I state the the reader must do as I do with this document? Edit it if you like. It's a handy and concise reference. Read it for your own edification and never show it to anyone. I don't care... You imply that I'm telling people what to do with themselves to fabricate an argument against that unmade statement... You planning to put boxing gloves on that strawman?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    If the conversation gets around to YOU and your weapon, then you can recite the relevant statutes as needed, in a polite and civil manner.
    Recite? We should all memorize SS 790 in it's entirety? Now who's trying to look like a wannabe lawyer/show-off?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Being confrontational is not going to work, especially if you've run into a jerk. (Yes, they're out there, no doubt about it).
    Another strawman. There is nothing confrontational here. Implying that there is, is a lie. You can have that fight if you like, but you'll have it alone...

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    I been pulled over three times now while open carrying and all three times I came away with a "thank you, drive safely" exit from the stop.
    Three, the convenient number... But I'll not pick nits. You do things your way. I never said you shouldn't...

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Two of the stops had the officer knowing the statutes and wanted to make sure that was WHY I was open carrying as I was in normal civilian traffic and not at a fishing hole! The third one was aware of the fishing, hunting statute but not the "shooting range" paragraph that was further down the page.
    It's the same as pulling someone over to check if they have a Driver's License. If you choose to waive your Rights, that's fine. I chose not to make that recommendation because I don't tell people what to do with themselves. I certainly don't tell people to toss the Constitution out the window. If that's what you want to do, fine. You do that. I lose respect for the person who tells others that they should throw away their Rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    All three stops were NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. I never said "Hey, you can't stop me!" or anything like that.
    Same here... I just draw a line of how much treason I'm willing to put up with. I never tell a cop he can't do something. If he wants to cross the line, far be it from me to stop him... don't tell people what to do. I expect them to conduct themselves properly, if they don't I'm not going to stop them from proving what scum they are. Actions speak louder than words, so let them be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    We're the stops "illegal" or not warranted? It's a tough call.
    No, it isn't. You were detained with no RAS or PC. You're fine with that. That's your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    You and I know the law, but when you look at it from the officer's side, he sees a guy with an openly carried gun and is "curious" about this in a strictly urban environment. Heck, I'd take the time to at least find out what the story is, if not for anything more than curiousity and my own edification!
    Derp, that's the whole point! I'm willing to have a consensual conversation, but a pull-over is a detainment. If there is no RAS/PC for it, then it's a breach of the 4th Amendment. You decide if you're ok with that. I am not. He can follow me to my destination if he wants, but detainment for a non-criminal activity is unacceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Here's the amazing thing about this so far. None of the three stops had me produce any kind of identification! Evidently calling in the license plate was sufficient to satisfy whatever it is they were stopping me for.
    That doesn't seem like anything to brag about. But I won't go off-topic with the many issues here...

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    So, let's try to think about WHY you're about to hand that laminated sheet to the officer. How about not doing it and just ask, "What's going on?" and take it from there.
    Why? Because I'm sick of trying to educate someone who tells me I'm 'lucky' he isn't killing me on sight. Taht anyone who owns a gun deserves to die, etc... The confrontation was not my doing. Get off your high horse, pretending that all LEO encounters that go badly are the victim's fault. You may as well claim that anyone who is raped was asking for it. Same mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    The information on the sheets is correct and informative, but I don't think handing it out as the first line of defense in a stop is a good tactic.
    So don't. Did I say you had to? Roll it up and smoke it for all I care... I'm just trying to be helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    With that said, this is only my own opinion. I still feel that handing reading material to the LEO who has just stopped you might be counter-productive to the intended result.
    If the topic comes up; it beats an argument and it's in writing. Nobody can claim 'he said, she said.' I don't think most of us have the time or insanity available to memorize 790 as you suggested. Even if we did, how authoritative is the memorized word? This tangible document can be taken back to his patrol car while he calls in for a Statute. When it comes back word-for-word identical, he knows he is dealing with someone who isn't making sh!t up. If he chooses to apply an attitude problem to it, that's on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    I open carry daily in my normal routine all around a three county area as I fish and shoot almost daily. I find it much more comfortable than IWB carry and can always throw on a light "cover garment" should I find the need to deviate from going to and from these activities.
    You stated yourself that you are one of the good ol' boys. You get special treatment if you want it or not. The rest of us aren't so lucky; we're not part of the thick, brown line. We don't get the special treatment that you do.

    Remember this part?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    If you were a copper (I can call them that as that's what we called ourselves way back when)
    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Here's the amazing thing about this so far. None of the three stops had me produce any kind of identification! Evidently calling in the license plate was sufficient to satisfy whatever it is they were stopping me for.
    No correlation to being one of them... Nah, can't be...

    Displaying to all that you are an 'only one' schmoozing it up with fellow 'only ones,' then pretending to wonder why nobody else gets the special treatment that you do, and implying that it must be the Citizen's fault when Cops come unhinged. Have you seen youtube? Search for "police brutality." You could waste the rest of your life looking at these examples... There is literally no end to the videos of Cops breaking the law, violating the Bill of Rights, attacking people, killing people... And these are just the times it was caught on video! I've been to the academy where this kind of thing is openly taught by the FDLE. Don't tell me what I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears never happened. Having a house shot full of holes and then burned to the ground to cover it up wasn't something I imagined.

    There is not a damn thing wrong with keeping a direct, arm's-length social policy with LEOs. They are known to kill on a whim. I don't get cozy with people like that. It's not confrontational. I just don't want a group of people known to commit over 1200% more violent crime than anyone else, and being a victim of the same many times, to get too close to me. I've never been a victim of a crime that WASN'T perpetrated by LEOs. And they got away with it.

    So, we've got two completely opposite ends of the spectrum. One guy who is a cop and is friends with them and receives special treatment from them. And another who has had Cops try to kill him and his family on more than one occasion, yet never arrested or charged with anything... Hmm...

    I doubt many readers on this forum can relate to the latter. Nor would I call it the norm. But being buddies with Cops, and being one yourself, is a skewed perspective, too. Those who fall 'somewhere in between' probably need more protection than a member of the club...
    Last edited by ixtow; 10-16-2011 at 08:52 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I copy pasted an exact quote from skidmark and changed the wording to match up with a .pdf application. Skidmark was offended by his own words when thrown back his way and reported it to a moderator. To make light of the situation I posted a picture of skidmark's profile and pointed out that he "has no friends." Nothing said was within the realm of "personal attack" in the forum rules and skidmark's "personal attack" remains untouched by moderators. Due to this, I can only assume that he receives special treatment on these boards. Apparently in today's society very few people have thick skin.

    Whatev's


    EDIT: oh yeah, THIS.

    You kind of step of with the wrong foot using that first line. You may just meet a cop who is all for people carrying, but as soon as he reads that he is going to go on the defense.

    A sense of humor in this place is about as rare as common-sense...There are, indeed, a lot of folks waaaaaaaaaaaaay too thin-skinned to be scouring internet forums, much less to be carrying firearms, if they cant take a simple ribbing..
    "personal attacks".....silliest concept I've ever heard of.. its a forum, people..text on a screen, on the internet...no harm can come from it. Slap a band-aid on your fragile little egos, and man the f-ck up, already..

    That said, back to the topic.
    Seems to me a reasonable enough item to have on-hand, if needed.And normally Im all over Ixtow for "confrontational" items, albiet usually in jest. I dont see anything especially confrontational with the 1st line of that...

  18. #18
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    All,

    I was trying to stay out of this thread but I figured I may as well add my 2 cents worth for people to at least consider.

    AD
    And now you know why I wanted to stay out of this thread!

    Also, I haven't been a "copper" since the early 1970's and that was in Northern Ohio anyway.

    I doubt seriously that when my license plate gets run, that a giant sign saying "Ex Cop 40 years ago" shows up on their computer screen!

    So, I'll attempt to gracefully exit the discussion at this point.

    I have printed out your papers.

    AD
    Last edited by ADulay; 10-17-2011 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Spelling error
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  19. #19
    Regular Member mach1chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    And now you know why I wanted to stay out of this thread!

    Also, I haven't been a "copper" since the early 1970's and that was in Northen Ohio anyway.

    I doubt seriously that when my license plate gets run, that a giant sign saying "Ex Cop 40 years ago" shows up on their computer screen!

    So, I'll attempt to gracefully exit the discussion at this point.

    I have printed out your papers.

    AD
    Gracefully, no futher comment necessary...
    False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    The thick brown line strokes itself.... Do you not realize you only solidify the disdain?

    The point I wanted to make was that when cops buddy up with fellow cops, the result doesn't apply to the rest of us. Citing your experiences doesn't help us because you get special treatment. You're part of the club.

    We're not.

    You tried to portray your situation as something the rest of us can expect. It just isn't so. I don't get to say 'Hey man, I was a cop, too.' You get special treatment when you say that, and you know it.

    If you want to stay out of the thread because your deceptions will get called out, why not stop with the deceptions instead of pretending that getting called out for them is a bad thing?

    If you can't help but bring your deceptions along with you, then you're right, you should stay out. If you can check them at the door, we'll get along a lot better.

    Don't pass-off your experiences as something the rest of us can count on. We're not members of your club.

    And, yes, LEO's plates do have special recognition when looked up. Even non-LEO State Employees do. mach1chris can confirm this... Or lie about it... Whatever... I've seen it with my own eyes.

    If you cannot be honest, we'll always butt heads. Apologists taht play this slight-of-hand game will earn no quarter from me.
    Last edited by ixtow; 10-17-2011 at 04:43 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  21. #21
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    Wrong, Ix. Just flat-out wrong. They dont maintain any sort of database on every living soul who's been a cop, not in this State, and certainly for officers who served in a distant State 30-some-odd years ago.
    Your paranoia is simply childish sometimes.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Wrong, Ix. Just flat-out wrong. They dont maintain any sort of database on every living soul who's been a cop, not in this State, and certainly for officers who served in a distant State 30-some-odd years ago.
    Your paranoia is simply childish sometimes.
    Your ignornace is even worse.

    I didn't say it was a database... But certain data is blanked out that they would normally get. Seen it myself when my Ex Wife worked for the SO. There was a procedure to have this done for any Employee of the SO that wanted to.

    When the registration comes up as not being expired, but the name and address aren't there.... Bingo.

    It helps to know what you're talking about before you call names.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  23. #23
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    To expand on ixtow's point here....the State of Florida allows certain persons to have their personal information exempt.

    This heading explains better than I could... cited from the Florida Department of State Address/Identification Pubic Records Request found here...http://www.dos.state.fl.us/publicati...ormrevised.pdf

    Florida law allows certain persons to request that an agency not publicly disclose their specific identification and/or location information in any of its agency records. See for example, sections 119.071 (2)(j), (4)(d) and (5)(i), 265.605, and 267.17, Fla. Stat. for applicable exemption and scope of exemption. If eligible, submit completed form to: Secretary of State, c/o Public Records Custodian Director, R.A. Gray Building, 500 S. Bronough St., Tallahassee, FL 32399. For more information, contact 850-245-6200.
    Of issue in this situation is statute 119.071 (2)(j) It's a HUGE section, so in the name of saving space I'll snip what I think is relevant. Found here...http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0119.071.html

    (4) AGENCY PERSONNEL INFORMATION.—

    (d)1.a. The home addresses, telephone numbers, social security numbers, and photographs of active or former law enforcement personnel, including correctional and correctional probation officers, personnel of the Department of Children and Family Services whose duties include the investigation of abuse, neglect, exploitation, fraud, theft, or other criminal activities, personnel of the Department of Health whose duties are to support the investigation of child abuse or neglect, and personnel of the Department of Revenue or local governments whose responsibilities include revenue collection and enforcement or child support enforcement; the home addresses, telephone numbers, social security numbers, photographs, and places of employment of the spouses and children of such personnel; and the names and locations of schools and day care facilities attended by the children of such personnel are exempt from s. 119.07(1).
    Now, if you go through the entire section, you'll see that the exception is available to seemingly any person employed in public service, ie. firefighters, clerks, etc., including victims of certain crimes.

    So, IMHO, ixtow is only partially correct. The absence of personal information within the database COULD mean an LEO, past or present, but, could also relate to several other professions,and, as stated, victims of crimes. But, since we know that many of those professions enjoy similar "professional courtesy" as LEOs, I'd say ixtow's point is on relatively solid ground IMHO.

    A key element to bear in mind though, if I understand correctly, the information isn't automatically exempt. The person must request their private information be exempted through the above cited form.
    Last edited by JeepSeller; 10-18-2011 at 12:01 AM.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepSeller View Post
    The person must request their private information be exempted through the above cited form.
    I've observed examples of people who didn't know it had been done for them. Where my Ex worked, the forms were passed around and everyone encouraged to use them. Lots of people didn't even know what it was, they thought it was just another thing they had to sign if they wanted to keep their jobs...

    My point is that, when you're part of the club, your experiences don't relate to those of us who aren't. It's a disgusting double-standard, but pretending it doesn't exist is not helpful to those of use who carry the burden. That's like saying Racism doesn't exist, so you shouldn't bother fighting it... Suppression of activism by censoring/denying the problem.

    My Ex's data is still obfuscated, even though she hasn't worked there for nigh on a decade. She's been pulled over drunk, speeding, with my son in the car; and they let her off. She still brags about it. Classy... Nah, no special treatment...

    Clearly, it sticks with you. If you made such a request on your first day way back in the 70s, maybe you didn't even know it was mixed in with all that paperwork... It's probably still with you today. And by now, I'm sure there are notes about you in there...

    Maybe someone could shed some light on the date this was created? Revisions? Any historical log about this Statute? Maybe it is just good luck For Mr. Leaving The Thread and Pouting? I'm relating my experiences. That's how it is... Doesn't prove that it applies to him. I've seen evidence that it does with others, and his experiences with LEOs in regard to OC are uncannily low-key. I'm not saying it's a proven reality, but merely that the shoe fits and there aren't many other feet it could fit.

    P.S. Thank you for being the Fact Welfare on that one... :-p
    Last edited by ixtow; 10-18-2011 at 12:46 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  25. #25
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    Im fully aware of the form and the exemptions, from when I was an investigator for the State some years back. -Not the point.
    It's not something that's going to apply to a guy who was a cop in OHIO 30-some-odd years ago..

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