I'm considering a lawsuit now. My previous post will let you know the details. Anyone interested in helping me with the suit? I can do most of the groundwork myself, just need heklp with the initial filing and anything else you are interested in helping with.
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Arrested for carrying / Any legal folks in here?
- Thread starter GIdeon_70
- Start date
Are you a member of Florida Carry? If so, we can assist you and you can help us as well, depending upon the circumstances of the case. E-mail me at rich@floridacarry.org with your location and a summary of what happened. We can forward it to our legal team and have them take a look at it. If you're not a member of Florida Carry, may I suggest joining. By being a member, we can join in your suit on behalf of the membership at large.
JeepSeller
Regular Member
Rich, I believe this is the story that went on several pages recently where the OP heard gunshots outside his home, grabbed his pistol and went running out of the house to see what was happening. (first silly move IMHO) Then, later, stood around visibly armed near a crime scene involving an unknown shooter (2nd silly move IMHO) and got mouthy playing front-porch lawyer when the cops checked him out. (3rd..)
First of all, he wasn't arrested, he was detained. Secondly, his story has changed several times in response to criticism or questionable details, it's difficult now to pick out the truth anymore.
FWIW anyway.
First of all, he wasn't arrested, he was detained. Secondly, his story has changed several times in response to criticism or questionable details, it's difficult now to pick out the truth anymore.
FWIW anyway.
^^summed up just about perfectly. lots of luck getting a case..
Ironside
Regular Member
The summation of the encounter can be found here.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ng-complete.&p=1589106&viewfull=1#post1589106
The OP has had a change of heart regarding the circumstances in this situation and is appealing for help. I suspect it has come down to a question of a violation of rights on personal property .
Gideon, can you elaborate on your decision to move forward with a suit?
IANAL
As I've said before.
I hear gunshots, and unlike you, under the bed shivering, I ran outside to see if my friends and neighbors were okay or needed help. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
I holstered my weapon after I was sure that things were not going to be violent anymore (I had a reason, but I'll not bother telling you because my back isn't what it used to be and it's hard to bend over and talk under the bed to you.) because I have every right in this state to carry openly on my own property and WAS NOT VIOLATING ANY LAWS AT ALL, PERIOD.
I would like you to point out to the people here where I said I was loud to the police. Come on, look it up, you can do it! Oh, no? Well, that is because I was not loud, disrespectful, or in ANY WAY acted illegally or confrontational to the police. I stood my ground, stood up for my rights, and demanded that they explain themselves before I would submit to what I considered to be an illegal infringement on my rights. It was a simple request that the officer was unable to meet. But it's hard standing up for your rights when you are hiding under the bed quaking in fear of your masters, isn't it.
I was arrested, not detained. The arrest report says clearly "Arrested," and I would consider that I was cuffed, disarmed, and marched out to a police car with an officer screaming at me, "You don't have any rights unless I TELL you that you do! NOW you get to go to JAIL!" Not sure where you get your information, but I guess it's hard to read under the bed like that.
Lastly (to you anyway) My story was not changed at all. I omitted some details because I wrote this letter to the list about five minutes I finished recording everything on my computer to that I would have a solid reference to fall back on. When I was writing to the list, my hands were still shaking! I needed to vent and was using the list as a way to calm down and get my perspective back. Yes, I omitted some things that came out at the prompting of questions from the list, but NOTHING CHANGED! This list IS monitored by LEO's and an incident like this would have made waves through the local PD because I know most of them - they would have seen this here and used what I said against me. I was VERY careful to make sure that everything that I write and wrote is as factual as possible.
Lastly, let me apologize to the list. I normally don't respond to someone like this, but being accused of lying just set me off. I do not lie about things, and to be called a liar is the height of arrogance from someone shivering in fear under a bed. Heck, for all I know the person writing this IS the police officer that assaulted me, and is trying to discredit me.
I got a copy of the arrest report. I can't let it stand. I cannot have me listed as a potential suspect in a drive by shooting as this officer implied. My reputation means more to me than that. I am a law abiding upstanding member of my community, and deserve respect and honesty from those that we hire to enforce laws in our town. If this officer did this to me, then what else has he done? I'll know in a few days.
JeepSeller
Regular Member
I'm not the only one to notice the inconsistencies in your story.(stories that is) My statements and view of your actions stand on their own ground.
You went running out into an unknown shooting situation, gun in hand without knowing the situation. That's not bravery. Bravery is using your intelligence to assess the situation and take appropriate action based on your own skill and knowledge. Running into a possible firefight with unknown shooter or shooters and their location is silly. I dare you to show me where that's a wise tactical option. Show me one single expert who will agree that leaving your cover is the right choice unless you have no other choice. You had a choice. Dead is dead. You do yourself, your family, and your neighbors no good if you get shot bull nosing yourself into a situation well beyond your ability to handle.
Next, you stood around the scene of an unknown shooting crime, visibly armed.
You got mouthy and attempted to play armchair lawyer with the officers who were attempting to investigate an unknown armed person standing around a shooting crime scene.
Take it personally if you like. Those facts cannot be disputed. My personal opinion is that those actions were not smart.
Just because you CAN stick your hand into a fire, doesn't mean you should. You certainly have the right to do that as well, but, few would argue it being a smart choice. A large part of self defense is using your brain. The idea is to walk away, not get yourself killed jumping head-first into a situation you know nothing about in some attempt to prove to the world how big and bad you are with your gun.
You went running out into an unknown shooting situation, gun in hand without knowing the situation. That's not bravery. Bravery is using your intelligence to assess the situation and take appropriate action based on your own skill and knowledge. Running into a possible firefight with unknown shooter or shooters and their location is silly. I dare you to show me where that's a wise tactical option. Show me one single expert who will agree that leaving your cover is the right choice unless you have no other choice. You had a choice. Dead is dead. You do yourself, your family, and your neighbors no good if you get shot bull nosing yourself into a situation well beyond your ability to handle.
Next, you stood around the scene of an unknown shooting crime, visibly armed.
You got mouthy and attempted to play armchair lawyer with the officers who were attempting to investigate an unknown armed person standing around a shooting crime scene.
Take it personally if you like. Those facts cannot be disputed. My personal opinion is that those actions were not smart.
Just because you CAN stick your hand into a fire, doesn't mean you should. You certainly have the right to do that as well, but, few would argue it being a smart choice. A large part of self defense is using your brain. The idea is to walk away, not get yourself killed jumping head-first into a situation you know nothing about in some attempt to prove to the world how big and bad you are with your gun.
mach1chris
Regular Member
What you did was not the smartest thing in the world, but accord to you're story I would guess you were within you're rights.
MR Redenck
Regular Member
This is funny.
The only time I have ever had a gun around a crime scene is when im the one catching the criminal. Never had a issue until we got a new police chief, that PD is crap now days.
I have had the DPS, Sheriffs, and PD show up on different occasions while I got some idiot on the ground at gun point, never had a problem.
Now if something has happened and I missed it, I Dont Think I Would Walk Around With A Gun Out In The Open. Legal or Not, It Aint Helping And It Aint Smart.
So Conceal it!!! Dang, it aint that hard. When the cops are doing Cop work, dont F""" with em.
I have Concealed a AR15 in the mix of several Cops. They didnt know it and I wasnt telling them either. :uhoh:
Just because we are not prohibited by law do not mean it is always a good idea.
I can carry a Shotgun in a Bar, No concealment necessary, but I keep it concealed. I can carry illegal knives inside my vehicle " Legally", but I dont because I dont need them in there.
Sometimes what is in the right, has a lot of fail........
The only time I have ever had a gun around a crime scene is when im the one catching the criminal. Never had a issue until we got a new police chief, that PD is crap now days.
I have had the DPS, Sheriffs, and PD show up on different occasions while I got some idiot on the ground at gun point, never had a problem.
Now if something has happened and I missed it, I Dont Think I Would Walk Around With A Gun Out In The Open. Legal or Not, It Aint Helping And It Aint Smart.
So Conceal it!!! Dang, it aint that hard. When the cops are doing Cop work, dont F""" with em.
I have Concealed a AR15 in the mix of several Cops. They didnt know it and I wasnt telling them either. :uhoh:
Just because we are not prohibited by law do not mean it is always a good idea.
I can carry a Shotgun in a Bar, No concealment necessary, but I keep it concealed. I can carry illegal knives inside my vehicle " Legally", but I dont because I dont need them in there.
Sometimes what is in the right, has a lot of fail........
It might pay you to quit embarassing yourself and go bacn and re-read my posts. For some reason you have a totally different idea of what went on than I do, the police do, and the people there do. 99% of the things in your posts are wrong, and you've gone as far as call me a liar. Please grow up.
Yeah, quit reading jeepsellers account, he wasn't there. I holstered my weapon as soon as I knew it was safe, and spoke to two police officers I know who had no problem with me remaining armed. After they interviewed me, I went to the opposite side of my property to talk to my neighbor and just didn't bother putting on a shirt and concealing my weapon - after all, why bother, they had already cleared me. I'd done nothing wrong, and was not involved in the investigation. Hell I was just standing at my fence talking to someone when the guy approached me and started ordering me around. Was I upset, well, of COURSE I was. THe police were packing thier cars up and were nearly ready to go when this cop approached me and ordered me to disarm.
Contrary to the events that Jeepseller experienced, I didn't mouth off to the police. I simply asked him to tell me what law I was violating. I wasn't under arrest, wasn't even considered a suspect, and was not even being detained at that point. He ASKED me to disarm, he KNEW I was not the shooter, and according to the letter from the police chief, I was not under any obligation to comply with his request. He got out of control, however, when I refused to disarm.
He ordered me into my house. I asked him how that was a lawful order, and he was unable to tell me or to justify it. I was still not in custody or being detained, it was a request, that I refused. He arrested me for "interfearing with an investigation," that was already over.
Was it smart? Smart implies that I was doing something dangerous or foolish. It wasn't dangerous to carry my weapon in a place that I was legally allowed to carry it. It wasn't foolish to stand around talking to someone as far from the scene of the crime as I can get in my yard, and still be armed after I was cleared and told that it was OK to be armed. Where did I go wrong? Not hiding in the house? Not crawling under the bed? If I did that how long do you think we will still have the right to own a firearm? How long before no one cares if they ban them? SOMEONE has to stand in the front and say this is my right, you go to this line and no further. In this case, I chose my ground and I stood it. This is not the first time I've had a problem with PD while being armed, and I thought we had an understanding. Look, foolish or not, I can only back up so far before I am at the wall, I prefer to fight before then.
Ironside
Regular Member
Gideon,
You still haven't revealed your location. It would help if we knew whether or not you are in Florida.
How can we relate?
You still haven't revealed your location. It would help if we knew whether or not you are in Florida.
How can we relate?
JeepSeller
Regular Member
1. You left the protective cover of your home and charged out into an unknown shooting situation, gun in hand without knowing the situation.
2. You stood around the scene of an unknown shooting crime, visibly armed.
3. You got mouthy and attempted to play armchair lawyer with the officers who were attempting to investigate an unknown armed person standing around a shooting crime scene.
Show me where I'm wrong. As I stated previously, these facts cannot be disputed.
Furthermore, on a number of occasions now, you willingly admit you omitted some details in your original account(s). Please explain to us, then, how your story hasn't changed. That doesn't mean you lied, but, it's unfortunate that the additional details you've revealed came to light AFTER you received considerable criticism for your actions. I don't need to go back and read anything again. I know I'm right.
2. You stood around the scene of an unknown shooting crime, visibly armed.
3. You got mouthy and attempted to play armchair lawyer with the officers who were attempting to investigate an unknown armed person standing around a shooting crime scene.
Show me where I'm wrong. As I stated previously, these facts cannot be disputed.
Furthermore, on a number of occasions now, you willingly admit you omitted some details in your original account(s). Please explain to us, then, how your story hasn't changed. That doesn't mean you lied, but, it's unfortunate that the additional details you've revealed came to light AFTER you received considerable criticism for your actions. I don't need to go back and read anything again. I know I'm right.
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ironh19
New member
Heres the dumb part. you had nothing to do with the case. you had no reason to be out there. and as far as the cop was concerned you're just some other moron out there with a gun. When a cop tells you to go in the house, go inside!! you were interfering with an investigation. case closed. you're case will go no where.
Originally Posted by GIdeon_70
Contrary to the events that Jeepseller experienced, I didn't mouth off to the police. I simply asked him to tell me what law I was violating. I wasn't under arrest, wasn't even considered a suspect, and was not even being detained at that point. He ASKED me to disarm, he KNEW I was not the shooter, and according to the letter from the police chief, I was not under any obligation to comply with his request. He got out of control, however, when I refused to disarm.
He ordered me into my house. I asked him how that was a lawful order, and he was unable to tell me or to justify it. I was still not in custody or being detained, it was a request, that I refused. He arrested me for "interfearing with an investigation," that was already over.
With not even a hello and an impolite attitude, we are told what and how by someone obviously ill informed.
He had a right to be where he was. He was not interfering. Carrying a gun is neither illegal, immoral or improper. No one need obey an illegal order made under color of law. The case is not closed - predict he will win.
It is best to speak from facts and not attack people if you expect any longevity here, sir.
mach1chris
Regular Member
Im not taking sides GIdeon. I agree that you were well within you're rights and you should stand up for them, I just wish you would have avoided the confrontation with the fellow officer. Its just that sometimes its not worth the hassel, you know what I mean?.
You know, that is the real issue here. Actually it is the real issue period.... is... How much is my freedom worth to me.
Was it worth a hassle? I still go back to the same question, how much are my rights worth?
When I photograph a crime scene, or go under police tape and approach a fire, or even stop at an accident with camera and recorder in hand, I am within my rights. These rights to access are fought every day by the media and there are even insurance policies that cover arrest and detainment from rogue cops as well as insurance that covers legal fees to defeat charges levied in the media.
So if every reporter just "not worth the hassle," every time a police officer said, "Scram, you're not wanted here." then eventually the police would not understand the rights that the press have. That green tag on my truck is valuable only because it allows me to do something that someone else may not be able to do - what value would it have if it didn't allow anything.
The state of Florida says that I have a right to carry a firearm openly on my own property. I had a reason to do so that I will not discuss here. As a result, a rogue cop with a bad attitude decided to deprive me of my rights and tried to force me to submit to an illegal and unconstitutional order.
How much is my freedom worth to me?
If I don't fight for it, then nothing. It has absolutly no value at all, period.
If I don't fight for my freedom and my rights, then the next time the officer attacks someone who has done nothing wrong, he is bolder, and more willing to do his worst - and will ccontinue to get worse because no-one stops him.
If I do not fight for my rights, then I condemn everyone after me to the same fate I suffered. Sorry, but that is a burden that I will not easily pick up.
Jeepseller, I am starting to believe that you are a police officer.
People fight for what they believe in, and if you are on an open carry website but don't believe in carrying unless it is a no-confrontation situation, then you probably do not open carry, yourself... unless you are a police officer - which is why I am starting to believe that.
I've discovered that the things that we value, we fight for unless you want to hld power over someone else, then you value the right for yourself, but not for others.
In a book I'm reading, introduction to policing, it says that the history of policing in the United States has been one of corruption and brutality. After reading of the killings done by police, seeing video of officers shooing suspects down in cold blood, and dealing with an out of control officer who had a serious power trip on me, I am starting to believe it. Police are given power to be brutal, violent, and walk on rights at every turn. They do what they can get away with, almost without exception.
So how much do "I," the soverign citizen, allow them to get away with?
The complaint is a 1983 complaint, but if you are an officer, you know that. It may be invoked any time a police officer exceeds his authority.
Do you feel the the officer exceeded his authority? And why?