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Thread: Norman Transcript - House Speaker Kris Steele supports open carry in Oklahoma

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    Norman Transcript - House Speaker Kris Steele supports open carry in Oklahoma

    http://normantranscript.com/opinion/...open-carrySNIP

    Two years ago, Oklahoma lawmakers passed a bill allowing gun owners with permits to openly carry their firearms. But Gov. Brad Henry thought the measure went too far and vetoed the plan.

    Last session, with a Republican majority in both legislative houses and a Republican governor, the bill got bogged down by the House public safety committee.

    The current plan, according to the Associated Press, is to provide a bill with a variety of options for lawmakers.

    House Speaker Kris Steele said he supports an open carry law that allows permitted gun owners with training to openly display weapons.

    . . .

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    "Oddly enough, some citizens feel safer knowing when someone is armed. Law enforcement agencies are generally opposed to open carry laws."

    http://normantranscript.com/opinion/...for-open-carry

    I wish law enforcement agencies would get more on board. Criminals won't carry their weapons openly, even if they were alloud. Which they won't be if they amend the bill to require background checks to become open carry permited. The people open carrying will be the honest, law abiding citizens that are only seeking to protect themselves and their families.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent91 View Post
    "Oddly enough, some citizens feel safer knowing when someone is armed. Law enforcement agencies are generally opposed to open carry laws."

    http://normantranscript.com/opinion/...for-open-carry

    I wish law enforcement agencies would get more on board. Criminals won't carry their weapons openly, even if they were alloud. Which they won't be if they amend the bill to require background checks to become open carry permited. The people open carrying will be the honest, law abiding citizens that are only seeking to protect themselves and their families.
    Many LEO are in favor of open carry, many are not...unfortunately only the majority of opinion is heard. And then its usually the majority of only the older upper in charge type folks.

    One thing about the criminals....they don't care what the law is, if they want to break it they will, otherwise school shootings wouldn't happen because they are in gun free school zones.

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Many LEO are in favor of open carry, many are not...unfortunately only the majority of opinion is heard. And then its usually the majority of only the older upper in charge type folks.

    One thing about the criminals....they don't care what the law is, if they want to break it they will, otherwise school shootings wouldn't happen because they are in gun free school zones.
    That's absolutely true. Criminals don't respect the law. Hence being called criminals.

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    I think the issue with a lot of cops that are against OC is because they feel, for whatever reason, that a MWAG=bad unless its a cop. So naturally they don't want citizens to carry because only cops and non-cop bad guys have guns and OC throws a give wrench in that line of thinking. Not to mention all of the additional training required to fix that line of thinking for cops.

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    Well I support law enforcement in every way shape and form, but I wish the anti-OC law enforcement would view it, not as a threat, but as an aid. Law abiding citizens, whether it's CC or OC, are packing if they so chose. That's a fact. If we could OC, though, I believe it would actually deter criminals from acting in the first place due to the fact that there's a bunch of guys with guns standing around.

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    OK, the problem I have is that they are proposing that OC be permitted. That is something that I really, really, really have a problem with! If you OC with a permit, that is infringement on the 2A as in your state is REQUIRING you to prove you are a LAC before you can have the priviledge of carrying openly. See where that slippery slope starts?

    I do agree that requiring some sort of additional training is not out of line for open carriers ... something along the lines of the CC classes in which the legalities are covered and types of retention perhaps. And that this class only be required once ... like hunter safety classes ... take it once and you are good to go for life.

    As for background checks? Well, you evidently purchased a gun, so a National Background Check has already been performed, so what sense does it make to require an additional one?

    I have no problem with them keeping the licensing for CC ... that is a place where the state does have an interest in verifying someone is qualified as the weapon is not immediately visible to LEO.
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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    Well, criminals will find a way to obtain a weapon without a background check. Be it purchasing from a private seller, an underground gang trade, ect. The background check is just a second line of defense in trying to keep felons from carrying a weapon lawfully in society. It's a small hoop to jump through and I would gladly do it. We've got bigger obsticals to hurtal than that before we can excersise our OC rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    OK, the problem I have is that they are proposing that OC be permitted. That is something that I really, really, really have a problem with! If you OC with a permit, that is infringement on the 2A as in your state is REQUIRING you to prove you are a LAC before you can have the priviledge of carrying openly. See where that slippery slope starts?

    I do agree that requiring some sort of additional training is not out of line for open carriers ... something along the lines of the CC classes in which the legalities are covered and types of retention perhaps. And that this class only be required once ... like hunter safety classes ... take it once and you are good to go for life.

    As for background checks? Well, you evidently purchased a gun, so a National Background Check has already been performed, so what sense does it make to require an additional one?

    I have no problem with them keeping the licensing for CC ... that is a place where the state does have an interest in verifying someone is qualified as the weapon is not immediately visible to LEO.
    While having to get a permit to OC is not the ideal situation, OK would not be the only state to do this and I could probably swallow this pill as it is a step in the right direction. The problem I would have is if the cost were high enough for the state to make money, they may never see the light to get rid of permitting due to all the green stuff in the way.

    As Trent91 said, if you do a private sale, there is no background check done.

    My other problem is that one of the things they wanted to add was a holster had to have some kind of manual retention. Most holsters with manual retention are designed for the popular guns (glocks and 1911s mostly). I tried finding a holster with mechanical retention for my Ruger P-90. Only think I could find was a polyester holster with a thumb break...yuck.

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    Im just hopeing that, when they do pass the OC, they don't bog it down with over excessive regulation. Telling us which holsters we can and can't use? Really? Common now.
    Last edited by Trent91; 09-23-2011 at 12:18 AM.

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    I shouldn't need a permit to put a coat on and I shouldn't need a permit to OC and exercise my second amendment RIGHT. I deal with it because I am forced to, but I shouldn't have to. To me requiring a permit for ANY type of carry is an infringement as you are requiring me to get permission to bear arms in a certain manner. Of course Constititional Carry isn't likely to happen for awhile, but that is what we should have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    I shouldn't need a permit to put a coat on and I shouldn't need a permit to OC and exercise my second amendment RIGHT. I deal with it because I am forced to, but I shouldn't have to. To me requiring a permit for ANY type of carry is an infringement as you are requiring me to get permission to bear arms in a certain manner. Of course Constititional Carry isn't likely to happen for awhile, but that is what we should have.
    +1

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    Law enforcement thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent91 View Post
    Well I support law enforcement in every way shape and form, but I wish the anti-OC law enforcement would view it, not as a threat, but as an aid. Law abiding citizens, whether it's CC or OC, are packing if they so chose. That's a fact. If we could OC, though, I believe it would actually deter criminals from acting in the first place due to the fact that there's a bunch of guys with guns standing around.
    Interesting that you should mention that OC is an aid to Law-Enforcement. Let me relate a story to you...
    I have dual residency in OK and NM and as you know, OC is legal in NM. I am virtually always OC armed in NM carrying my Glock 34 in a Serpa drop leg tactical rig. I was coming out of one of the McDonald's that I frequent when I ran into two Bernalillo County Deputies. When they saw I was OC they didn't over-react at all. They did seperate from each other, which is a good tactical manuever, and one of the officers asked why. I told him that I chose to open carry because I didn't want to pay the high cost of the CC permit. He told me I should obtain a CC. I asked him to think about something... I said, "Even though you and your partner did a tactical separation, you both knew immediately that I wasn't a threat to you. I'm dressed professionally, I'm wearing a $600 pistol in a $200 rig, and it's obvious to you that I'm likely to know how to properly use a firearm." He responded that yes that was true but it would still be better to CC. I told him that I was more of a benefit to him and other law enforcement, and a detriment to criminal activity by carrying in the open. As example I told him that there was much less chance that a criminal would come into that McDonald's while I was there and saw that I was armed because I was a threat to him. Also I mentioned that if a criminal DID decide to do something stupid, they were more likely to turn their attention to me first rather than a defenseless employee or patron and as such there was a better chance that innocent people would not be hurt or victimized.
    To my suprise he actually said he had not looked at the situation from that point of view and that he agreed with me.

    All in all I've had rather possitive attitudes from most law enforcement out here in NM. The only exception being the female Sargeant that told me to turn away from her while she disarmed me and secured my weapon in the trunk of my car... along with my pocket knife... This occured when she reponded to an accident I was involved in. Everyone was fine, the other driver was upset with himself for causing the accident and I was relieved no one was hurt, but when I asked her why she had disarmed me, she said she was uncomfortable with me wearing the weapon. I had no problem with it, but did think it was kind of funny.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Para Mour View Post

    The only exception being the female Sargeant that told me to turn away from her while she disarmed me and secured my weapon in the trunk of my car... along with my pocket knife... This occured when she reponded to an accident I was involved in. Everyone was fine, the other driver was upset with himself for causing the accident and I was relieved no one was hurt, but when I asked her why she had disarmed me, she said she was uncomfortable with me wearing the weapon. I had no problem with it, but did think it was kind of funny.
    I wouldn't think this was funny at all, I would consider it extremely insulting. There was no reasonable reason for her to do that at all...I would complain to her supervisor, officially.

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    Female Sergeant

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I wouldn't think this was funny at all, I would consider it extremely insulting. There was no reasonable reason for her to do that at all...I would complain to her supervisor, officially.
    Well the thing is... If she is THAT concerned about me wearing a weapon in her presence, she has some issues. It is far better to find humor in that kind of stupidity than to create an issue that could have farther reaching implications. Don't get me wrong, I certainly felt the same way for a short period of time, and nearly did contact her superiors. But on the whole, I chose to ignore the instance as a case of choosing one's battles. Where our second amendment rights are being tested, and many states are relatively new to the open carry scene, it seemed a rather small point to push.
    Rest assured if this becomes more of an issue, I will certainly persue it further...... Though I'm hoping I don't have anymore idiots running into me! lol
    Thanks for your comment.

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Para Mour View Post
    Well the thing is... If she is THAT concerned about me wearing a weapon in her presence, she has some issues. It is far better to find humor in that kind of stupidity than to create an issue that could have farther reaching implications. Don't get me wrong, I certainly felt the same way for a short period of time, and nearly did contact her superiors. But on the whole, I chose to ignore the instance as a case of choosing one's battles. Where our second amendment rights are being tested, and many states are relatively new to the open carry scene, it seemed a rather small point to push.
    Rest assured if this becomes more of an issue, I will certainly persue it further...... Though I'm hoping I don't have anymore idiots running into me! lol
    Thanks for your comment.
    Actually, contacting her superiors and questioning whether she is adequately trained to be on the streets based on her behavior that you find humorous might do her some good.

    Basically, she escallated a situation that reportedly was not in danger of escallating.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    I would also like to point out that while many LEA are not in support of OC, many county Sherrif's are ... the ones outside of a Metro area, that is ... and perhaps that might be a better segment to focus on.

    Also, I don't think the OHP trooper-on-the-street is as opposed to OC as the administrative segment seems to be, and I agree that the rank-and-file of most police agencies are probably on the side of OC moreso than opposing OC.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Para Mour View Post
    ... but when I asked her why she had disarmed me, she said she was uncomfortable with me wearing the weapon. I had no problem with it, but did think it was kind of funny.

    I have no problem whatsoever with any woman who is qualified to have any job they want--firefighter, cop, welder, whatever.

    But what I DO find offensive is when female officers are allowed to play the "weaker sex" card when dealing with lawfully-armed citizens, because "they felt uncomfortable"...

    Suck it up, sweetcakes, and pull on your big girl panties and deal with it. My Constitutional Rights are NOT dependent on whether or not your tender sensibilities are ruffled. If you can't handle law-abiding citizens exercising their rights then maybe you need to be in another line of work, where swearing to uphold and defend the Constitution isn't part of your freaking job description...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Dreamer, that is why I think he needs to follow up with her supervisors about this ... she is definitely in need of more training or other intervention service.

    Heck, we had a new dog catcher who was helping me locate my dog that had slipped his chain ... it didn't happen often, but the head ACO told me if I called and let them know, he wouldn't go to doggy jail, they would bring him home. Well, this new guy had been told that, but he was so afraid of the dog that he tranked him 2x and then followed him 6 blocks home rather than loading him in the truck.

    I asked him why and he actually told me he was afraid of big dogs. I was talking to the head ACO about this a few days later and he looked "sideways" at me ... the next monday, the city was looking for a new ACO.

    If the officer is so afraid of a LAC w/Gun, then she either needs to be on a desk or in some sort of training until she resolves her issue. How long until her "nervousness" results in a LAC shot by her?

    If you don't want to do it "officially" I can back-channel it for you so the supervisors can oversee her a little more closely.
    cheers - okboomer
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    While I'm lucky enough to OC at work as I work at a gun store it's not so much by choice but required to by the boss. I'm 100% in favor of OC and enjoyed the OC life while stationed in VA. I talk to customers all day long and 9 of 10 are in favor of OC and I point them in the right direction to voice that PRO-OC voice. I also have people daily that while talking to them have no clue I'm OC'ing till I say something or turn and happen to show my strong side.

    Criminals are criminals and no one ever said your common street thug was smart. The background check works and I see it more times than I should by stupid people trying to slip through a crack if possible. Yet some are just down right Darwin award champions. Had a 20 year old try and buy a home defence tactical shotgun. When I asked how he planned to use it (he dressed and talked the street thug part) he said he got shot at a few weeks back on a breaking and entering which he said he was on probation for. Then he freely said he wanted to be ready in case he was shot at again. Really!!!! We saw too it that the next B&E attempt he does he will be un armed and defenceless like he should be.

    It's because of POS's like that why WE LAC should have EVERY RIGHT to carry in ANY manner WE SEE FIT ANYPLACE WE GO!!!

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