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Thread: FOX 23 TV News - Reloading for open carry rights in Oklahoma

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    FOX 23 TV News - Reloading for open carry rights in Oklahoma

    http://www.fox23.com/news/local/stor...2Tl-cHCHw.cspx

    SNIP

    Violent and random crimes in Tulsa this week: a senseless double murder at an east Tulsa Park, armed robbers lying in wait for employees in east Tulsa, and a homeowner forced to shoot an intruder in Midtown.

    What if the crooks knew their intended victims were armed? That’s the idea behind Oklahoma’s open carry proposals.

    Inside your home, parking lots, jogging trails, predators are waiting for defenseless targets and the perfect moment to strike.

    "I think everyone has the right to bear arms and protect themselves,” says Tom Forbs.

    That’s just one of the arguments at the Oklahoma state capitol where legislatures are reloading the open carry debate.

    "It deters criminals,” says David Beaurman.

    . . .

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    "25 [age] and a background check. People that are 18 or 21 do not have, they do not have the maturity,” says Beaurman.

    I would agree with some form of qualifications an individual may have to meet to be able to open carry, but I pray they're reasonable. Are they saying that even an 18 year old individual is mature enough to carry a high powered, automatic weapon on foreign soil risking their lives for our country, but not enough to protect their families in their own community? Hogwash.

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    The age thing isn't terrible. When we first got CC, the age was 23, now it's down to 21.

    I do disagree with the 50 rounds down range and an 8 hour training class though. Most people who are going to participate in OC will have put much more lead and time into it than that.

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    The age thing isn't terrible. When we first got CC, the age was 23, now it's down to 21.

    I do disagree with the 50 rounds down range and an 8 hour training class though. Most people who are going to participate in OC will have put much more lead and time into it than that.
    21 would be acceptable. 25 is a bit drastic in my opinion. Although, I suppose something is better than nothing. Baby steps are better than no Progress at all.

    The 50 rounds down range is questionable. I agree than anyone practicing OC will more than likely have extensive experience with their weapons, and, even if they have no experience at all, 50 rounds won't help much. I would gladly do it though. As I said before, baby steps. I wouldnt be opposed, however, to a class of some sort being required that would teach the laws encompassing WHEN to use your weapon in a self defense situation, as well as laws restricting the carry of your weapon into certain areas. I believe this is more needed than a class on HOW to use the weapon. Less people will be familiar with that area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    The age thing isn't terrible. When we first got CC, the age was 23, now it's down to 21.

    I do disagree with the 50 rounds down range and an 8 hour training class though. Most people who are going to participate in OC will have put much more lead and time into it than that.
    I would say the age thing is terrible. Sure for those of you that remember 25 as an age long long ago it doesn't seem bad, but that means one has to wait 7 years from becoming an "adult" before they can OC. At age 18 another 7 years is almost half your age. I just turned 25 and I know I would be PISSED if I was born and raised here and I had to wait that long to exercise my right; as if having to wait till 21 for CC wasn't bad enough. The only reason I wasn't madder about the CC age was because I was in the dorms on base and thus couldn't realistically carry anyways (I couldn't even have my decorative sword set in the dorms). But even then I don't agree with the CC age or the issues with carry on base.

    If someone is an adult then they should have all the responsibilities and privileges of an adult. If we aren't going to treat adults as adults then we need to increase the age of a legal minor.

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    Regular Member Trent91's Avatar
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    I'm only 20. If anyone has rights to lose by age restrictions, it's me, but I can see why they would place it at 21 I guess. It's better than 25 at least. But as I said before, the government sees 18 year olds as capable of carrying an m16 in a combat zone, so why wouldn't they be fit to carry a sidearm in their own community for protection? Not just any 18 year old,though. Criminal records disqualify them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    I do disagree with the 50 rounds down range and an 8 hour training class though. Most people who are going to participate in OC will have put much more lead and time into it than that.
    Not necessarily true

    But, if you ever end up in court after a SDshooting, you will be very happy to have some sort of documented certification in accuracy and training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    I would say the age thing is terrible. Sure for those of you that remember 25 as an age long long ago it doesn't seem bad, but that means one has to wait 7 years from becoming an "adult" before they can OC. At age 18 another 7 years is almost half your age. I just turned 25 and I know I would be PISSED if I was born and raised here and I had to wait that long to exercise my right; as if having to wait till 21 for CC wasn't bad enough. The only reason I wasn't madder about the CC age was because I was in the dorms on base and thus couldn't realistically carry anyways (I couldn't even have my decorative sword set in the dorms). But even then I don't agree with the CC age or the issues with carry on base.

    If someone is an adult then they should have all the responsibilities and privileges of an adult. If we aren't going to treat adults as adults then we need to increase the age of a legal minor.
    I was 21 when I took my CC class. Had to sit on my certification for 2 years before I could do anything with it. I know what it's like waiting for the "magical age of government blessing". And while anything over 18 may not be ideal, it is a place to start. I don't see 18 coming around anytime soon due to the myth about having to be 21 to own a handgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    I was 21 when I took my CC class. Had to sit on my certification for 2 years before I could do anything with it. I know what it's like waiting for the "magical age of government blessing". And while anything over 18 may not be ideal, it is a place to start. I don't see 18 coming around anytime soon due to the myth about having to be 21 to own a handgun.
    Myth indeed. As I previously said, I'm only 20, and I've purchased two handguns through private sellers. Where in sam hell did that stupid rumor come from? 18 would be ideal, 21 would be acceptable, 25.. outragous. If I can't carry a sidearm while walking with my wife in the park, I shouldn't be able to carry rifle in a combat zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    I was 21 when I took my CC class. Had to sit on my certification for 2 years before I could do anything with it. I know what it's like waiting for the "magical age of government blessing". And while anything over 18 may not be ideal, it is a place to start. I don't see 18 coming around anytime soon due to the myth about having to be 21 to own a handgun.
    I agree that 18 isn't coming any time soon, but to increase the age to 25 for OC when one can CC at 21 is excessive, unwarranted, and unneeded.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I don't recall the Constitution (OK or US) addressing specific age, training or any other damned thing. Age of majority is 18. "People that are 18 or 21 do not have, they do not have the maturity,” says Beaurman." So... you have immature people who're allowed to vote for you? You hire immature people as police officers? You enlist immature people to defend the country?


    OK has it backwards. 18 is the general age for OC and 21 for CC. I didn't think OK was that myopic. 'Look at what other states are doing or have done.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    I don't recall the Constitution (OK or US) addressing specific age, training or any other damned thing. Age of majority is 18. "People that are 18 or 21 do not have, they do not have the maturity,” says Beaurman." So... you have immature people who're allowed to vote for you? You hire immature people as police officers? You enlist immature people to defend the country?


    OK has it backwards. 18 is the general age for OC and 21 for CC. I didn't think OK was that myopic. 'Look at what other states are doing or have done.'
    The reason it is 21 is because it is being tied to the CC permit.

    As of right now, OK has no OC so at least this is a step in the right direction. We can't always get what we want in one lump sum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Not necessarily true

    But, if you ever end up in court after a SDshooting, you will be very happy to have some sort of documented certification in accuracy and training.


    I'd have to dissagree to some extent here. If you have a documented record of shooting especially one of competition, LEO or military distinction and you have to defend yourself and in the heat of the moment your shot hits the head or you group multiple shots closely center mass then you can and will likely be held accountable, as your skills are of the caliber that you knew exactly where your shots hit and the argument of a bad shot is hard to contest.

    I have raised that question many times with co workers who are LEO's and a brother who is a judge. They tell me the same thing as I have miltary distinctions in marksmanship. I'm not saying this applies to everyone but it's something to keep in mind when carrying and if/when that moment of truth comes.


    I think 18 is perfectly fine for OC and 21 for CC. Many states have that already with a proven track record of success.

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    Bull I'm going to have to disagree with that. I'm sure the prosecution might try and make the arguement you're putting forward, but a proper defense should be able to properly display that shooting at paper accurately is far different than shooting at another person in a high stress situation.

    I'm sure people have been held accountable for stray bullets, but saying that they should be held accountable due to how well they shoot at paper targets is bs and should be relatively easy to fight.

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