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Thread: 1911/1911 Clone Question

  1. #1
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    1911/1911 Clone Question

    I carry a Springfield Armory "Champion" .45 which is, I think, a clone of a Colt Commander. Someone tell me if I'm right, please.

    The question is this; I carry cocked and locked and have had I don't know how many people ask me if I know that the hammer is back ("trigger" in one case!). Most of these folks seem to be quite interested in my answers and also in the fact that OC is legal in Alabama. However, there are a few that want to get rude, crude, and socially unacceptable when I tell them that the way I carry is the safest way to carry a 1911.

    One individual told me that I was full of excrement, that he had served three years in the Army, and he knew about weapons. My reply, "Thank you for your service. I served a total of twenty-one years and retired as a senior NCO." Clue jaw drop and rapid exit on his part.

    Does anyone else, anywhere in the country that it is legal to carry open and loaded, get this same sort of attention?

    I do notice that I seem to get more attention carrying the .45 cocked and locked than I do carrying the 9mm with the hammer down.
    Last edited by SFCRetired; 09-22-2011 at 01:13 PM. Reason: correct my idiot spelling!

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    When I carry a 1911 I get a lot of hammer comments.
    Sounds like a commander to me.
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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    I carry cocked and locked, and got a question from my father about "carrying with the hammer back". My father is a man who owns dozens upon dozens of firearms and served in the military for 22 years. He is very skilled with firearms knows a great deal of information on the ones he owns.

    Anyway, once I explained that I would have to flip the manual safety off, push in the grip safety in, and then pull the trigger for the 1911 to fire, he completely understood why I carried cocked and locked.

    I then found out he had never owned a 1911. He has owned just about every other firearm I can think of though, lol.

    As for when I get out and open carry with my 1911s, I never get comments about it. On the other hand, my wife has had a few comments about her Glock not having a manual safety. According to some of the people we have encountered, my wife shouldn't carry a Glock with a round in the chamber... After she explains how a Glock functions, they seem to come around.

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    I call it a commander 1911, doesnt have to be colt to be a 1911. just like a car doesnt have to be a ford or whatever to be a car.
    I carry cocked, locked, ready to rock! well not really ready to rock, but I just like that saying.

    Its the safest way to carry, and quickest way to defend yourself with the 1911. and I have not heard anyone have the gun just go off, while being cocked and locked.



    Tim

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I too generally get more comments when I carry one of my 1911s. First because it is recognizable to most people. (especially anyone who has played Call of Duty) I also get comments about the hammer. They usually say "is that loaded" and I usually say "of course." I wouldn't worry about it too much. Good job dealing with the army guy (lol) and thank YOU for your service!
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    i have had that comment before while carrying a 1911.

    "hey did you know your hammer is cocked?"

    lol, if i ever hear that again i'm going to act surprised like I didn't know a gun was on my waist
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    "hey did you know your hammer is cocked?"
    Don't worry, I'm driving!
    Last edited by dmatting; 10-24-2011 at 09:27 AM.

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    Im in Texas, so nobody can see my 1911's... Booooooooo
    I carry 1911's both ways, depends on how I feel. Hammer back, sometimes hammer down. When im running or climbing such as in hunting I lower the hammer, Just in case I bust my but and roll down a hill.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Im in Texas, so nobody can see my 1911's... Booooooooo
    I carry 1911's both ways, depends on how I feel. Hammer back, sometimes hammer down. When im running or climbing such as in hunting I lower the hammer, Just in case I bust my but and roll down a hill.
    You lower the hammer on a loaded chamber?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    I then found out he had never owned a 1911. He has owned just about every other firearm I can think of though, lol.
    So, what's dad getting for Christmas this year
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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    So, what's dad getting for Christmas this year
    Tools, ammo, and firearms purchased in the mid 90s, never fired, lol... my wife and I don't complain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    You lower the hammer on a loaded chamber?
    Yes. It can not go off since the 1911 has a srping loaded firing pin. I even tested that carry method before by striking the lowered hammer.
    The next time you take down you gun, just make the firing pin flush with the slide and look at the pin where it comes out of the breech. With the hammer side flush, the pin does not breech.
    Just make sure you dont shoot yourself in the leg when lowering the hammer.
    Last edited by MR Redenck; 09-22-2011 at 10:20 PM.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    SNIP
    Just make sure you dont shoot yourself in the leg when lowering the hammer.
    That's the part I was referring to. Too much of a possibility of a mistake.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    That's the part I was referring to. Too much of a possibility of a mistake.
    YOu got to be careful. This isnt something I suggest to those who are unsure either. If anything you could carry with no round in battery if the conditions call for it.

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    I carry an auto ordinance 1911A1, cocked and locked. I live in Pennsylvania, and open carry everyday. I've only had ONE comment from an older gentelman stating I was going to "blow my foot off carrying like that". I tried explaining all the safety features, he refused to listen.. oh well. Excrement happens.

    Continue to carry the way you're comfortable... let the haters hate. Haha.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Im in Texas, so nobody can see my 1911's... Booooooooo
    I carry 1911's both ways, depends on how I feel. Hammer back, sometimes hammer down. When im running or climbing such as in hunting I lower the hammer, Just in case I bust my but and roll down a hill.
    Well, no one was "supposed" to see it. My button up shirt hung down while laying in a dentists chair.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    I've had at least one person question why I had my CZ-75 clone's hammer cocked. "Potential energy."

  18. #18
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    just remember if you decide to lower the hammer on your 1911.........not only shooting yourself in the leg can be the outcome. if you do ...........do it TWO HANDED. ..........NEVER try to beretta style decock one handed. if that hammer drops. your going to rip you thumb clean off :-p lol
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    When I was looking into a 1911 I was concerned about walking around with my hammer cocked until I read on a forum someone talking about how with modern firearms like glocks and xds the hammers are cocked and locked you just cant see it so really there is no difference...thats what I use to explain to people that its safe. I used to carry my XDm and after thinking about it I realized it was no different and my worries about it went away. I wouldnt carry without one loaded and ready to rock.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    When I was looking into a 1911 I was concerned about walking around with my hammer cocked until I read on a forum someone talking about how with modern firearms like glocks and xds the hammers are cocked and locked you just cant see it so really there is no difference...thats what I use to explain to people that its safe. I used to carry my XDm and after thinking about it I realized it was no different and my worries about it went away. I wouldnt carry without one loaded and ready to rock.
    actually glocks and Xd's are not cocked and locked. they are semi cocked.

    the firing pin is 100% controled by the trigger itself. and it has a firing pin block infront of the pin that is also controled by trigger movement.

    in a striker fired weapon , when you cock the slide it locks the firing pin behind the trigger mechanism, about 1/8 of the way back. when you squeeze the trigger the trigger bar moves backwards, in doing so it starts pulling back the firing pin all the way while at the same time actuating a small press under the slide and lifting the firing pin block out of the way, once the trigger bar has passed this position it drops a very slight distance allowing the firing pin to release from the trigger bar and be sent flying forward to strike the primer. but when the trigger is in the full forward position, the firing pin block is ingaged and fully blocking the pin. also the firing pin is held under almost no tention. hence why most modern striker fired weapons are IMPOSSIBLE to shoot without depressing the trigger . they cannot fire because the firing pin has no way to move backwards, then forwards and past the block to the primer.

    what makes a 1911 safe in the cocked/locked position is only the manual safetys on the gun, such as the thumb safety and the backstrap safety.

    when you fire a 1911 , first you remove the manual safety which disengages the safety on the hammer, then the backstrap safety is engaged by the palm allowing the connecting safety attatched to the trigger to move and allow the trigger to actually be pressed. making it also very safe to use. no hand on gun. no fire. no flip of safety, hammer cannot drop :-)

    other firearms such as beretta, stoeger and S&W use a rotating barrel safety on the side of the gun which actually rotates up and forward when actuated , blocking the hammer from actually contacting the firing pin by about 2mm of space :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    I could carry my guns with the hammer cocked, but I don't. It is a hassle in a half to get the hammer mechanism a part in order to do a thurough cleaning for my tastes.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    I could carry my guns with the hammer cocked, but I don't. It is a hassle in a half to get the hammer mechanism a part in order to do a thurough cleaning for my tastes.
    yes! unless you have the sig P25. only 4 parts haha. I once took apart my S&W 6906's hammer assembly for cleaning, took about 2 minutes to take down............then 3 days, 5 gunsmiths later to re-assemble. i like my glock . inside the slide there is 10 parts that only fit back together one way lol and a monkey could do it :-p
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    I could carry my guns with the hammer cocked, but I don't. It is a hassle in a half to get the hammer mechanism a part in order to do a thurough cleaning for my tastes.
    I could too, and don't, but for a different reason. Carrying in cocked and locked requires me to draw, thumb off the safety, and fire. Carrying with the hammer down requires me to draw and fire. Much faster. The six pound trigger pull and firing pin interlock lock provide enough of a safety.
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    I'm sure you understand my point on the comparison however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    I'm sure you understand my point on the comparison however.
    Yes, I understand. It's probably rare, but there's at least one documented case of an individual carrying cocked and locked, accidentally thumbing off the safety, and firing the weapon in a direction other than intended. With a light trigger pull, it's a lot easier.

    I will carry cocked and locked, and do practice it at the range. I'll draw, double-tap, a third to the head, thumb the safety on, and return to holster. I then repeat through the remainder of the magazine. Situation: I'm involved in a shoot, things are immediately clear and I'd prefer to re-holster, but there might be others and it's not the right time to be manually decocking the hammer.

    I'd prefer, however, to manually decock the hammer as soon as practical so as to return to my normal condition of carry.

    I think the point here is it's best to be thoroughly familiar with all modes of your firearm's operation. It's important, however, to find the mode that works best for you.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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