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Question about Open Carry in the USPS ?

jmelvin

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Messages
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Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Welcome dashraider! Although the story that I've linked below is in response to questions by Ohioans in regard to whether they may carry a firearm on USPS property, the summary is applicable to carriers of all sorts. You will find that other than for bringing long guns onto postal property for the purpose of lawfully shipping them, no firearms are permitted on USPS property, including parking lots.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Concealed-carry-in-a-post-office-may-lead-to-rude-awakening
 
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scouser

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Location
804, VA
dashraider said:
I'm still not certain if one can legally open carry in a US Postal office?

Any information would be appreciated.

Don't think about concealing either, carrying on postal property is banned, open or concealed. You can't even store them in your vehicle if it's parked on postal property. As of October 2009 there is a case law decision on the matter, US vs Dorosan
 

tcmech

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No, do not carry on federal property.

Welcome to the forum though, and remember the post office will deliver stamps.
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
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Messages
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can someone quote the law that specifies that we cannot carry on federal property, such as national parks, post offices, or national forests?

Thanks.

TITLE 18 - crimes and criminal procedure
PART I - crimes
CHAPTER 44 - firearms
-STATUTE-
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon
be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon,
or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as
provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or
prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such
possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to
hunting or other lawful
purposes.

I say carry on.
 
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scouser

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
Can someone quote the law that specifies that we cannot carry on Federal property, such as National Parks, Post Offices, or National Forests?

Thanks.

Title 39 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Chapter 1 Part 232.1 states no person while on post office property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes

Note that it does not say 'for lawful purposes', instead it states 'official purposes'.

I do not suggest you test them on this
 
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flb_78

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Location
Gravel Switch, KY

jmelvin

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Location
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Can someone quote the law that specifies that we cannot carry on Federal property, such as National Parks, Post Offices, or National Forests?

Thanks.

It appears some you don't grasp why Dr. Mark posted what he did. In not one but two cases responders stated flatly that it was illegal to carry on federal property and this is simply not a flat truth. We have restrictions on carrying at the USPS, within federal facilities, on Army Corps of Engineering lands, military bases and who knows what; but national parks are fair game, so are national forests depending on what each state lays out and Bureau of Land Management land is fair game for carrying as well. Due to these facts the flat statement that carry on federal property is forbidden is not correct.
 
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scouser

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Apr 4, 2011
Messages
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Location
804, VA
jmelvin said:
It appears some you don't grasp why Dr. Mark posted what he did. In not one but two cases responders stated flatly that it was illegal to carry on federal property and this is simply not a flat truth. We have restrictions on carrying at the USPS, within federal facilities, on Army Corps of Engineering lands, military bases and who knows what; but national parks are fair game, so are national forests depending on what each state lays out and Bureau of Land Management land is fair game for carrying as well. Due to these facts the flat statement that carry on federal property is forbidden is not correct.

actually .. that is why I ONLY responded reference the post office and made no mention of any of the other places. That and the fact the other places were irrelevent to the original thread, which only asked about USPS.
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Don't think about concealing either, carrying on postal property is banned, open or concealed. You can't even store them in your vehicle if it's parked on postal property. As of October 2009 there is a case law decision on the matter, US vs Dorosan

There is another new case going through here in Colorado that started after the McDonald v Chicago verdict was in. I can't remember the name of it right now, but I'll try and find it again.

In the mean time... No, just don't.
 

DrMark

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,559
Location
Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
Can someone quote the law that specifies that we cannot carry on Federal property, such as National Parks, Post Offices, or National Forests?
Sorry, I was trying to be subtle (as jmelvin surmised)... too subtle perhaps.

There is no ban on carrying in Federal places, or Federal property (again, as jmelvin has pointed out).

Federal facilities (buildings) are covered by USCs930 and the CFR address Post Offices specifically. Neither addresses Federal property in general, though that notion is frequently posted on this forum and others.
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
Sorry, I was trying to be subtle (as jmelvin surmised)... too subtle perhaps.

There is no ban on carrying in Federal places, or Federal property (again, as jmelvin has pointed out).

Federal facilities (buildings) are covered by USCs930 and the CFR address Post Offices specifically. Neither addresses Federal property in general, though that notion is frequently posted on this forum and others.

read much?

TITLE 18 - crimes and criminal procedure
PART I - crimes
CHAPTER 44 - firearms
-STATUTE-
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon
be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon,
or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as
provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or
prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such
possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
purposes.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
You can also carry around a post office if it is like the one that is in my neighborhood area. That one is in a small strip of two or three other business which all share the same parking lot and sidewalk under an overhang. So I can park, walk up to a collection box, and drop off mail. I just can't enter the post officer proper.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
actually .. that is why I ONLY responded reference the post office and made no mention of any of the other places. That and the fact the other places were irrelevent to the original thread, which only asked about USPS.

The two responders I saw were ocholsteroc and tcmech. Your response was perfectly valid. :)
 

grylnsmn

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
620
Location
Pacific Northwest
You can carry in the open, unfenced parking lot,

You cannot carry or have it in your car inside of the fenced in portion of the parking lot.
This is not entirely accurate.

39 CFR 232.1(a) indicates that it applies to all real property, except what is subleased to other tenants (or sidewalks with respect to specific applications of speech). That would include the parking lot(s) of a Post Office. 39 CFR 232.1(l) prohibits weapons on all Post Office property, "except for official purposes". Again, the text would apply to all property, including parking lots.

However, 39 CFR 232.1(b)(2)states:
Vehicles and their contents brought into, while on, or being removed from restricted nonpublic areas are subject to inspection. A prominently displayed sign shall advise in advance that vehicles and their contents are subject to inspection when entering the restricted nonpublic area, while in the confines of the area, or when leaving the area. Persons entering these areas who object and refuse to consent to the inspection of the vehicle, its contents, or both, may be denied entry; after entering the area without objection, consent shall be implied. A full search of a person and any vehicle driven or occupied by the person may accompany an arrest.
That means that they cannot search your car in the parking lot unless it is (1) a nonpublic parking lot (i.e. fenced in to restrict use), and (2) posted that vehicles are subject to inspection. (They can still search your person as long as you are on postal property under 39 CFR 232.1(b)(1).)

In short, 39 CFR 232.1(l) prohibits carrying in Post Office parking lots, even in your car, but 39 CFR 232.1(b)(2) restricts their ability to enforce it in the public parking lots. It's still prohibited, but they have no way to catch you as long as you leave it in your car.

The Louisiana case (USA v. Dorosan) involved a postal employee who had parked his car in the fenced-in, nonpublic lot. As such, it was subject to search under 39 CFR 232.1(b)(2). Had he been parked off of postal property or in the public lot, his car would not have been subject to search (absent a different basis).
 
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